I drive for a supermarket best paid job i have had since trucking 30yrs in industry
Conor:
dozy:
Mate any one with half a ounce of sense knew stacking shelfs doesn’t earn you a comparable wage to truck drivingAldi pay more per hour for shelf stackers than the hourly rate on days for Class 2 and many Class 1 jobs in Hull. Downside is they only guarantee 25hrs a week but for the hourly rate you’re definitely on more with Aldi than truck driving where I live.
Why not do 25hrs for Aldi and 25 hrs for Lidl. 50hrs total £500 a week simples.
Rjan:
Carryfast:
Rjan:
Surely you’re not suggesting that the average road vehicle driver is carrying a comparable risk to the average train driver?As I said what’s more responsibility.Driving and steering up to 44t gross around 60 ft x 8 ft on the public road among the general public and other road users including pedestrians and cyclists.Or not having to steer a train,on a fixed track,that’s closed to the general public,with features like automatic signal and collision protection.On that note let’s just say that the average train driver doesn’t run the risk of going to prison for colliding with a cyclist while turning left for just one example.
If I were driving a truck with hundreds of people on board, at over 100mph, and with brakes so poor as to take many miles to stop the vehicle, I might be of the view the risk was the same. The train driver carries the risk of going to prison if he collides, not just because he ran a red light and failed to stop, but ran a red light and failed to stop many minutes earlier.
The train driver has many other aids that road drivers don’t, but in general I’d say that the average person would be taking a greater risk behind the power handle of a train than the wheel of a road vehicle.
It is also not remotely a lesser skilled job than road driving. True, the train does not have to be manoeuvred around obstacles, but it may have to stop in time for obstacles. The driver also has to set the appropriate speed, stop for lights, and ensure that points are set correctly for his route before proceeding - easier I’m sure on a rural line than through Clapham junction. The track is not closed to the public at all, except in some parts just as some parts of the road system are - and there is no general “automatic signal” or “collision protection” system in place.
The driver’s concentration cannot fail for a moment without the risk of an unrecoverable situation (the fact of which may not even be obvious until nothing can be done). The key features of the entire route must be known entirely before driving it unsupervised, and most changes of speed will be done on memory rather than by sight (unless you’re going to drive the train like a pillock, which would put you on a pathway to dismissal if not remedied). And of course, there are schedules to keep. The driver doesn’t even have a radio to listen to, so crucial is concentration.
That crash in Spain a few years ago, where the driver lived but many passengers didn’t, is testament.
To conclude I’d certainly say that a great many more lives rely on a high standard of behaviour from the train driver, which itself is more difficult to achieve than the standard of behaviour required for driving a truck. If a train driver has any lower risk of killing, it is only because of train drivers are selected for their consistently high standard of driving.
the train driver may not have to steer his train but he does have to know off by heart his route he has to know the position of every signal on his route on everysingle line . at every one of these signals he has to know every aspect that that siganl can display and what it means in regards to speed and driving style they also have to know the speed of any line they are running on any speed restrictions either permanent or temporary . they are expaected to know the braking and accelarating abiltys of there train dependant on the track conditions (wet dry icey ) and gradients plus they have to know the detailed technical specification of the train they are driving so as to be able to rectify any fault a typical driver can be passed on anything upto 20 types of traction and expected to know anything upto the same amount of routes intemetley .
Rjan,
I think you need to take a step back, train driving is a mundane job, concentration levels are less than a truck driver, you drive a truck and fail to stop at a red light and bang you kill someone.
fail to stop in a train, you wil active a trip ■■■■ which will dump the air and the train will stop.
Trucker has a illness and smashes into a car
Train driver falls ill The Deadman Handle releases train stops.
I assume the new trains have the vigilance system set on UK trains , ie if you do not do set tasks use wipers acknowledge the flashing light etc. within a set time then the train will come to a stand still. well our Warratahs do.
re points, you tell me when you have seen a driver scotch and clip points I never have. as for making points are set not hard to check a signal to see if the points are set in the direction you want if not you get on the radio to the box and ask why etc, you would of route learned the track and the speed limits etc you are making the job sound more difficult than it is I regular cross 8 lines to commence my route, 23 platforms at Sydney central station, flyovers underpasses etc. places to set back etc. as I got taught the points not set stop and call the box … a truck driver cant stop and do that/
I spent 18 months training to be a driver, over here in Australia for Sydney trains, the hardest part of the job for me is to remember the codes to get into the drivers rest room for my coffee.
personally, I think Truck driving is more of a risk. imo sorry. doesnt mean they should be on the same wage though.
the train driver may not have to steer his train but he does have to know off by heart his route he has to know the position of every signal on his route on everysingle line . at every one of these signals he has to know every aspect that that siganl can display and what it means in regards to speed and driving style they also have to know the speed of any line they are running on any speed restrictions either permanent or temporary . they are expaected to know the braking and accelarating abiltys of there train dependant on the track conditions (wet dry icey ) and gradients plus they have to know the detailed technical specification of the train they are driving so as to be able to rectify any fault a typical driver can be passed on anything upto 20 types of traction and expected to know anything upto the same amount of routes intemetley .
OK. The truck driver also has to know and do the above and WITHOUT knowing the route in advance!
Do you know a lot of train drivers who say the job’s shot and want out?
Thought not…
This reminds me of my first day in primary when one boy got quite annoyed in assembly with the boy next to him. The topic was was whether his Dad’s Excavator could win a fist “fight” against another boy’s father’s lorry, if they we’re alive and violent minded bits of machinery of course. It got quite heated. Fascinated, I was riveted, primary school promised to be exciting after that!
jesus - truck driver vs train drivers - so you can take and pass a test for hgv in a week to train as a train drive is about 12 months + yeah we should all be on the same money.
the only people who think truck driving is skilled are truck drivers and you only need to look at the vast majority of monkeys we have on our roads nowadays to see it is far from skilled! it should have could have would have but its not hence £ per hour, the only bad thing is the living / minimum wage means menial jobs are catching truck wages up in certain areas and the amount of legislation truckers have to face is beyond stupid.
discoman:
Rjan,I think you need to take a step back, train driving is a mundane job, concentration levels are less than a truck driver, you drive a truck and fail to stop at a red light and bang you kill someone.
fail to stop in a train, you wil active a trip ■■■■ which will dump the air and the train will stop.
Trucker has a illness and smashes into a car
Train driver falls ill The Deadman Handle releases train stops.
I assume the new trains have the vigilance system set on UK trains , ie if you do not do set tasks use wipers acknowledge the flashing light etc. within a set time then the train will come to a stand still. well our Warratahs do.
re points, you tell me when you have seen a driver scotch and clip points I never have. as for making points are set not hard to check a signal to see if the points are set in the direction you want if not you get on the radio to the box and ask why etc, you would of route learned the track and the speed limits etc you are making the job sound more difficult than it is I regular cross 8 lines to commence my route, 23 platforms at Sydney central station, flyovers underpasses etc. places to set back etc. as I got taught the points not set stop and call the box … a truck driver cant stop and do that/
I spent 18 months training to be a driver, over here in Australia for Sydney trains, the hardest part of the job for me is to remember the codes to get into the drivers rest room for my coffee.
personally, I think Truck driving is more of a risk. imo sorry. doesnt mean they should be on the same wage though.
It’s interesting to hear your perspective on the Australian railways. I’m not sure how the safety systems compare, or what the very latest signalling developments are in Britain (which are generally behind Europe), but my understanding of the general case (there are exceptions) is that trains here still do not stop themselves at danger signals any more than trucks stop themselves at red lights.
Also I’m not trying to make train driving sound like a hard job in every respect. It is simply one that requires relentless concentration without much stimulation - which is hard for most people to sustain.
That being said, I don’t think I want to dig myself in any deeper on this question!
Rjan:
discoman:
Rjan,I think you need to take a step back, train driving is a mundane job, concentration levels are less than a truck driver, you drive a truck and fail to stop at a red light and bang you kill someone.
fail to stop in a train, you wil active a trip ■■■■ which will dump the air and the train will stop.
Trucker has a illness and smashes into a car
Train driver falls ill The Deadman Handle releases train stops.
I assume the new trains have the vigilance system set on UK trains , ie if you do not do set tasks use wipers acknowledge the flashing light etc. within a set time then the train will come to a stand still. well our Warratahs do.
re points, you tell me when you have seen a driver scotch and clip points I never have. as for making points are set not hard to check a signal to see if the points are set in the direction you want if not you get on the radio to the box and ask why etc, you would of route learned the track and the speed limits etc you are making the job sound more difficult than it is I regular cross 8 lines to commence my route, 23 platforms at Sydney central station, flyovers underpasses etc. places to set back etc. as I got taught the points not set stop and call the box … a truck driver cant stop and do that/
I spent 18 months training to be a driver, over here in Australia for Sydney trains, the hardest part of the job for me is to remember the codes to get into the drivers rest room for my coffee.
personally, I think Truck driving is more of a risk. imo sorry. doesnt mean they should be on the same wage though.
It’s interesting to hear your perspective on the Australian railways. I’m not sure how the safety systems compare, or what the very latest signalling developments are in Britain (which are generally behind Europe), but my understanding of the general case (there are exceptions) is that trains here still do not stop themselves at danger signals any more than trucks stop themselves at red lights.
Also I’m not trying to make train driving sound like a hard job in every respect. It is simply one that requires relentless concentration without much stimulation - which is hard for most people to sustain.
That being said, I don’t think I want to dig myself in any deeper on this question!
a rolling programm of installing tpws at every stop signal with a conflicting route was started in the mid 1990s this means that a train attempting to pass a signal at danger where there is a conflicting move ( junction crossover platform levelcrossing etc ) would have its brakes applied automatically this also applies on approach to speed restrictions to prevent over speeding .next time your near a railway look for what looks like a metal grid about five feet long between the rails that is the tpws acctuator usualy close to the signal
Rjan,
trains are monitored by a person sitting in a control room, NCC for LUL RMC for me on Sydney trains, the safety system here is very strict, I spent near on 18 months learning to be a driver … on a normal shift, I will just drive from A2B no issues, the trains are basically automatic. and like a truck driver you are an attendant … you still get speed boards, you still get signals etc, and like any job, you know the grades etc. you do the route regular you know the stops you know the speed limits … its not rocket science to be a train driver even though some think it is!!!
Yes on some of the older trains we have, when we lose air or a fault might appear then we have to diagnose the issue, very rare as you call up or will flick through the manual etc. when dividing a train or coupling its not much different to a trailer in fact a mill is easier that a truck its all buttons.
its not a hard job, a signal is a signal end of the day, you can still go through a red on a low speed etc, work that out go through a red with a green showing etc. it is no different to driving a truck … just takes longer to learn the different aspects anyone can learn to drive a train like anyone can A TRUCK.
but i suppose the point is hour for hour a shelf stacker gets paid more that a driver.
I earn more than the manager in the supermarket where my wife works. The manager is stressed, works loads of hours including weekends, had to deal with crap from the staff and customers etc etc.
I almost applied to work there until the last manager showed me what he was earning.
I think the pay of train drivers vs truck drivers has very little to do with responsibility.
It takes a matter of weeks to get an HGV licence, it take far longer to get qualified to drive a train and you have to pass a selection process to start with.
The cost and timescale of training for the train driver must reduce the supply of suitably qualified drivers, I assume they train the drivers to fill the estimated future vacancies , as opposed to HGV drivers who get trained regardless of whether they have a job to go to and then have to find a job.
Train driver have traditionally been a highly unionised workforce, HGV drivers tend not to be unionised, this is probably as much to do with the different nature of the industries. Train drivers work for a few large companies (and for many years I suppose almost all train drivers worked for BR) and normally the companies have their areas they cover.
The haulage industry has many very small companies, and a few large players and even a few owner drivers, all competing for the same work, so if you don’t move those goods somebody will be in to do it.
War 1974 if trucking is not a skill how r so many failing test ? It takes2 yrs to gain skill thru a thing called axperience u plonker
Ps I ain’t no monkey either