Did some work in the UK a couple of weeks ago,the firm I worked for said I get paid off the digi card recording.Not that well up on the law but known it is illegal to be paid of a taco disc,are the firm right to pay off the card recording?
froggy:
Did some work in the UK a couple of weeks ago,the firm I worked for said I get paid off the digi card recording.Not that well up on the law but known it is illegal to be paid of a taco disc,are the firm right to pay off the card recording?
Why is it illegal to be paid off the tacho disc?
Of cousre they can pay that way. What’s the difference between a tacho chart, the digi card download or a time sheet? They all record the hours you have worked.
Wrong again mon ami,the tacho and the card only record after they have been placed in the “truck”.Wait in` time before between climbing into the truck is not automaticly recorded.Time sheets do get questioned,say you put the tacho in on case after waiting over 8hrs then driving a couple of hours were do you find the start time of that shift?Bare in mind agency work!
Hi froggy,
Since the Regulations require that the whole of a shift is recorded, doesn’t it mean that if on analogue, you’d record the start and finish times by drawing the appropriate lines on the reverse of the disc, and if on digi, you use the manual entry facility?
Either way up, wouldn’t that would meet the requirements and please the pay Dept. at the same time?
This is a bit off my area of knowledge, but I think that’s how I’d do it, so I’ll await other posters’ opinions with interest. 
froggy:
Wrong again mon ami,the tacho and the card only record after they have been placed in the “truck”.Wait in` time before between climbing into the truck is not automaticly recorded.Time sheets do get questioned,say you put the tacho in on case after waiting over 8hrs then driving a couple of hours were do you find the start time of that shift?Bare in mind agency work!
Two words, manual entry.
If you aren’t making manual entries for the time before getting access to the truck you are committing an offence.
Which then brings it back to the subjuct of payment.The disc will only record the time it`s in the tacho,from my memory a hand written entry on a disc is not legal req.
If I have got this wrong than ok but with a card, once in the “reader” the shift start time cannot be set to a time before the card was inserted.While on some course or other there was a video we saw in which the driver had to place the card in a machine at the start of the shift,bit like clocking in/out and it was this machine the the driver got paid of not the hours on the card.Nights away,just leave the card in.
My beef is that one firm I worked for just took the hours of the card and it was off that I got paid,(which I still understand to be illlegal)even though I had to wait for the unit to get back to the yard,so could not put my card in.
froggy:
Which then brings it back to the subjuct of payment.The disc will only record the time it`s in the tacho,from my memory a hand written entry on a disc is not legal req.
If I have got this wrong than ok but with a card, once in the “reader” the shift start time cannot be set to a time before the card was inserted.While on some course or other there was a video we saw in which the driver had to place the card in a machine at the start of the shift,bit like clocking in/out and it was this machine the the driver got paid of not the hours on the card.Nights away,just leave the card in.
My beef is that one firm I worked for just took the hours of the card and it was off that I got paid,(which I still understand to be illlegal)even though I had to wait for the unit to get back to the yard,so could not put my card in.
You are failing to understand what is meant by a manual entry on the digital tachograph, the previous posters are not referring to manual entries on a printout they are referring to manual entries that can be recorded electronically onto the driver card.
When you insert the card into the tachograph you are given the option to do a manual entry, if you select to do a manual entry you can record the time that you worked both at the end of the last shift after taking the card out and at the start of the current shift before inserting the card, when I say “time that you worked” I actually mean any activities such as driving, other work, break/rest or POA.
Doing this will ensure you are running legally as all the manual entries are recorded on the driver card, it’s not only possible to put manual entries on the driver card for work related activities whilst the driver card was not inserted into the tachograph but it’s a legal requirement to do manual entries either electronically onto the tachograph or on a printout.
froggy:
If I have got this wrong than ok but with a card, once in the “reader” the shift start time cannot be set to a time before the card was inserted.
You have got it wrong. When you put the card in one of the questions it asks you is if this is the start of the shift. If you say “no”, it then asks you when the start of the shift was. If you’re not putting this in correctly you are, as has already been pointed out, comitting an offence.
Paul
froggy:
…from my memory a hand written entry on a disc is not legal req.
It is.
repton:
froggy:
If I have got this wrong than ok but with a card, once in the “reader” the shift start time cannot be set to a time before the card was inserted.You have got it wrong. When you put the card in one of the questions it asks you is if this is the start of the shift. If you say “no”, it then asks you when the start of the shift was. If you’re not putting this in correctly you are, as has already been pointed out, comitting an offence.
Paul
Going off my original post a little but whenever I try to set the start time at a time before I put the card in the "box"it will not let me do it?
So if on a card one must the EDR/SDR times is law when did it become so.And I still say untill someone proves it to me that it is so then I say it is against the law to be paid solely of the tacho.
froggy:
repton:
froggy:
If I have got this wrong than ok but with a card, once in the “reader” the shift start time cannot be set to a time before the card was inserted.You have got it wrong. When you put the card in one of the questions it asks you is if this is the start of the shift. If you say “no”, it then asks you when the start of the shift was. If you’re not putting this in correctly you are, as has already been pointed out, comitting an offence.
Paul
Going off my original post a little but whenever I try to set the start time at a time before I put the card in the "box"it will not let me do it?
When you put the card in it displays the current time and asks if this is the start of the shift and you choose no and press the OK button. On the next screen you use the arrow keys to alter the time back to the start of the shift and press OK. You then use the arrow keys to move the time forward to either the current time or if you want to make multiple manual entries to whatever time you were at one activity. You then press OK and it flashes the mode symbol and you can use the arrow keys to select the required mode and press OK. If you moved forward to the current time then that is that or you can then move the time again and enter a different mode.
froggy:
so if on a card one must the EDR/SDR times is law when did it become so.
It isn’t, and has never been law to enter EDR/SDR on a chart but it always has been law to make a full account of your shift and if for periods of the shift you don’t have access to a vehicle then that is by manual entry on a digi tacho or using the little boxes on the back of a chart.
froggy:
And I still say untill someone proves it to me that it is so then I say it is against the law to be paid solely of the tacho.
As it is a legal requirement that the tacho record shows a full account of your shift including any required manual entries then it is of course legal to be paid solely from the times on your tacho record. If VOSA checked your tacho record against your time sheet and your tacho shows 10 hours work for the day but your time sheet shows 13 hours then they would be asking questions and you could face a charge of falsifying tacho records.
Froggy, you are arguing with yourself.
Drivers records are precisely that, a record of any work and rest periods taken, so from the minute you arrive at work to the minute you leave that time must be recorded, if you use an analogue card, you can use the 24 hour grid on the reverse or draw the SOD and EOD on the face side.
With a digital card, you use the buttons to enter the start and finish times and country code
Being paid off a tachograph card is not illegal and most agencies pay this way
Another example,I worked for an agency at the end of the driving day I take out the card, walk over to the transport office.The transport office is a good five mins walk two other drivers before me for de-briefing,office pen pushers goes for a pee before I get de-briefed,all told I have wait over 45 mins to end the working day.Office takes a reading off my card,card shows the card being taken out of the “box” 45 mins before my day is over.The next day I go on another job,the “box” asks if the time shown for the shift end the day before,ok no so I put the correct time.Firm 1 pays me off the card reading,I`m 45mins down?
froggy:
Another example,I worked for an agency at the end of the driving day I take out the card, walk over to the transport office.The transport office is a good five mins walk two other drivers before me for de-briefing,office pen pushers goes for a pee before I get de-briefed,all told I have wait over 45 mins to end the working day.Office takes a reading off my card,card shows the card being taken out of the “box” 45 mins before my day is over.The next day I go on another job,the “box” asks if the time shown for the shift end the day before,ok no so I put the correct time.Firm 1 pays me off the card reading,I`m 45mins down?
Then you need to make the decision. Do work for “firm 1” or not.
ERA 96 gives you the right to be paid while you’re at work.
Driver Hours Regs dictate that you are working during the final 45 minutes you describe.
Remembering of course that the agency is your employer, not the agency’s client, for the purposes of “wages” within ERA.
froggy:
Another example,I worked for an agency at the end of the driving day I take out the card, walk over to the transport office.The transport office is a good five mins walk two other drivers before me for de-briefing,office pen pushers goes for a pee before I get de-briefed,all told I have wait over 45 mins to end the working day.Office takes a reading off my card,card shows the card being taken out of the “box” 45 mins before my day is over.The next day I go on another job,the “box” asks if the time shown for the shift end the day before,ok no so I put the correct time.Firm 1 pays me off the card reading,I`m 45mins down?
It sounds like you are being more than debriefed, it sounds like they are going the whole way and having your arse.
You are entering the country on the unit aren’t you?
I do get paid for the time when the card is out but it involves wait to get my pay slip and a phone/s call to the agency.Point is being paid off the card only, I would loose the last bit of the working day if it is legal to be paid only off the card?