I would guess that the Las thing considered when a haulage company is making a bid for a new contract is the drivers wage
Why because there is a endless amount of drivers who don’t know any better
It is what it is
Look after number one
nightline:
Grandpa:
I’m looking through the jobs and reading that there is a shortage of drivers. They (wherever I read it) say that an estimated 15% of HGV vacancies aren’t filled. I believe it. The jobs are there, from £10ph to ‘earn £800-900 a week’, there’s plenty of them. The problem is the low take home pay after everyone has dipped into it.After several years away from it all I’m slowly getting the hang of it. Tramping gets you between £100/125 tax free nights out. It helps boost the low PAYE wage, or the higher umbrella rate helps pay for the employer NI and commission. Nights out was once a bonus, now it helps pay for the overheads of working so that you actually get your wage, less the normal employee deduction. I can’t see any other way around it.
Welcome to the mad house, how bad does it have to be if you have to sleep in a truck to get an average wage
For God’s sake it’s 24 hours a day and most still don’t cop on
If you’re lucky you will get a lunch allowance as well but very few do
So 25 quid for what you tell me
As I said many times its the blind leading the blind and they put it all together and come up with what they think is, that it’s all worth it.
Forget about tramping there are people out there doing 70 to 80 hours for 500 a week
Work it out yourself 250 a week
I mentioned previously in a thread that I still have a P60 from the tax year to 2007. Five nights a week trunking, take home 490. Add onto that another 100 a week or so from a Sunday every two weeks for another agency. That was good money then and the East Europeans were just beginning to flood the market. I last worked in the UK late 2008 and I can see it’s all over. I’m struggling now to even get a job slightly above minimum wage that won’t further scam me with an umbrella company.
Here’s something interesting I found. It’s not just an umbrella calculator, this one tells you what you get as umbrella, Ltd sole trader and PAYE. I’ve put in all sorts of combinations and I’m always better off on PAYE even though it’s a lower rate.
GasGas:
I suspect the days of umbrella companies are numbered…the HMRC is catching up with them
They already have. The government announced back at the start of the month that IR35 would apply to all industries regardless of sector. We are getting it and it makes Umbrella and Ltd Co flat out illegal. HMRC have been targeting Ltd Co drivers anyway, they’ve now just got the extra muscle.
Oh, but there are good PAYE jobs out there. I’ve just been offered £31k a year take home. OK, I have to tramp for that but its still bloody good money!
Grandpa:
It’s less to do with the decline of the unions as it is the rise of the gig economy. You can even put a date on this – Blair. When those East European flood gates opened and the equivalent £1ph drivers flooded in what did we expect to happen? You don’t hear the East Europeans complaining about low pay or non-holiday pay. For £10ph they think they’ve died and gone to heaven!It just slowly got worse and whatever the companies could get away with cutting they did and if we didn’t like it, zxggobsmacked from wherever took the job. The same is happening in the distribution warehouses, the construction industry and the NHS. I’m getting offers now with ‘Must be able to speak English’ as a criteria!
Hard Brexit and start sending them home? When the Trucking industry get short of English truckers and can’t fill the vacancies on the cheap, that’s when you’ll see wage rises. Be honest, as we oldies retire and if you had a son or daughter in their early 20s, what’s the last career on earth you’d recommend to them?
So?
Are other EU member countries suffering equally from the same gig problems?
If not, it’s not an EU induced problem is it?
Look to National Gov policies for problems that are bigger in this country than elsewhere.
And even Pro Brexit politicos are not talking about “sending EEs back”. They speak of different (and cheaper) labour pools.
I don’t get it. All this talk about minimum wage, 80+hour weeks, paying your own stamp, what the hell?
I work 3.5 days a week, and take home 450+, every week, including my holidays.
Get a proper job, and tell the agency to go and ■■■■ themselves with a pointy stick.
Franglais:
Grandpa:
It’s less to do with the decline of the unions as it is the rise of the gig economy. You can even put a date on this – Blair. When those East European flood gates opened and the equivalent £1ph drivers flooded in what did we expect to happen? You don’t hear the East Europeans complaining about low pay or non-holiday pay. For £10ph they think they’ve died and gone to heaven!It just slowly got worse and whatever the companies could get away with cutting they did and if we didn’t like it, zxggobsmacked from wherever took the job. The same is happening in the distribution warehouses, the construction industry and the NHS. I’m getting offers now with ‘Must be able to speak English’ as a criteria!
Hard Brexit and start sending them home? When the Trucking industry get short of English truckers and can’t fill the vacancies on the cheap, that’s when you’ll see wage rises. Be honest, as we oldies retire and if you had a son or daughter in their early 20s, what’s the last career on earth you’d recommend to them?
So?
Are other EU member countries suffering equally from the same gig problems?
If not, it’s not an EU induced problem is it?
Look to National Gov policies for problems that are bigger in this country than elsewhere.
And even Pro Brexit politicos are not talking about “sending EEs back”. They speak of different (and cheaper) labour pools.
Why have you brought Brexit and the EU into this? You’re on the wrong thread.
Grandpa:
It’s less to do with the decline of the unions as it is the rise of the gig economy. You can even put a date on this – Blair. When those East European flood gates opened and the equivalent £1ph drivers flooded in what did we expect to happen? You don’t hear the East Europeans complaining about low pay or non-holiday pay. For £10ph they think they’ve died and gone to heaven!It just slowly got worse and whatever the companies could get away with cutting they did and if we didn’t like it, zxggobsmacked from wherever took the job. The same is happening in the distribution warehouses, the construction industry and the NHS. I’m getting offers now with ‘Must be able to speak English’ as a criteria!
Hard Brexit and start sending them home? When the Trucking industry get short of English truckers and can’t fill the vacancies on the cheap, that’s when you’ll see wage rises. Be honest, as we oldies retire and if you had a son or daughter in their early 20s, what’s the last career on earth you’d recommend to them?
So who first said Brexit ?
Grandpa:
I’m looking through the jobs and reading that there is a shortage of drivers. They (wherever I read it) say that an estimated 15% of HGV vacancies aren’t filled. I believe it. The jobs are there, from £10ph to ‘earn £800-900 a week’, there’s plenty of them. The problem is the low take home pay after everyone has dipped into it.
More fool you. As an academic, I’d have thought you would have enough nous to question employers who say they are short, but aren’t paying premium wages, aren’t improving conditions, and aren’t offering immediate secure employment to anyone they can get in the door.
It’s most ludicrous because you yourself have just been stung by an agency offering a ridiculously low rate, and thus you turned work down. Does that seem to you like the employers are short, if they can afford to play such games?
Grandpa:
It’s less to do with the decline of the unions as it is the rise of the gig economy.
But as I explain, until the 1960s the gig economy was the norm. You were doing well in the 1950s if you gained a staff position with significant notice periods and redundancy protection. The whole point of compulsory notice being introduced by law was to stop workers bargaining with their feet and engaging in constant stoppages, and indeed stop employers engaging in lockouts, the combined effect of which was to cause constant disruption in supply chains and an extreme culture of militancy amongst workers (a culture that affected even those employers who were not causing it).
The gig economy only suits employers when workers are abundant, because in that situation it is they who can terrorise workers and freely force wages down to a minimum, rather than the other way around.
I mention the unions only to explain in part why legal changes did not immediately result in a return to casualisation across the board, because it was very difficult for employers to add casuals gradually whilst it was contrary to norms and their existing workforce (who still had secure contracts) were not willing to tolerate it. Remember in 1984 the miners still felt strong enough to confront the government - unions remained enormously powerful in the 80s, even though they were by then a setting sun.
You can even put a date on this – Blair. When those East European flood gates opened and the equivalent £1ph drivers flooded in what did we expect to happen? You don’t hear the East Europeans complaining about low pay or non-holiday pay. For £10ph they think they’ve died and gone to heaven!
I agree Blair did aggravate the situation, particularly in haulage. But as has been explained to you (and not just by me) agencies were becoming common in the 90s in sectors that didn’t require a lot of firm-specific skill, in part because of legal changes that had occurred decades before.
Hard Brexit and start sending them home?
It is fantasy to imagine the Tory party sending workers “home”, only to induce a massive shortage. I suppose it is a fantasy that keeps people in their chains.
Worker immigration has gone up under the Tories, from non-EU countries which the Tories control. They are already talking about dropping the income threshold again (having temporarily raised it a few years ago), to a level that is lower than wages in haulage.
At any rate, the main problem is not immigrants who settle, because they ultimately face the same economic conditions as the rest of us, although it does not help to have a constant influx of prospectors.
The real problem is allowing employers to make use of carpetbaggers, whose real lives still take place abroad and who are simply arbitraging between wages here and prices back home, and who intend to return home without living out a full life cycle (and whose wage demands can be correspondingly lower, provided they are higher than back home, and who have no concern about long-term conditions or willingness to make sacrifices for the long-term good).
Grandpa:
nightline:
…I mentioned previously in a thread that I still have a P60 from the tax year to 2007. Five nights a week trunking, take home 490. Add onto that another 100 a week or so from a Sunday every two weeks for another agency. That was good money then and the East Europeans were just beginning to flood the market. I last worked in the UK late 2008 and I can see it’s all over. I’m struggling now to even get a job slightly above minimum wage that won’t further scam me with an umbrella company.
And yet you still believe there is a shortage of drivers? None so blind as will not see.
Grandpa:
Franglais:
Grandpa:
It’s less to do with the decline of the unions as it is the rise of the gig economy. You can even put a date on this – Blair. When those East European flood gates opened and the equivalent £1ph drivers flooded in what did we expect to happen? You don’t hear the East Europeans complaining about low pay or non-holiday pay. For £10ph they think they’ve died and gone to heaven!It just slowly got worse and whatever the companies could get away with cutting they did and if we didn’t like it, zxggobsmacked from wherever took the job. The same is happening in the distribution warehouses, the construction industry and the NHS. I’m getting offers now with ‘Must be able to speak English’ as a criteria!
Hard Brexit and start sending them home? When the Trucking industry get short of English truckers and can’t fill the vacancies on the cheap, that’s when you’ll see wage rises. Be honest, as we oldies retire and if you had a son or daughter in their early 20s, what’s the last career on earth you’d recommend to them?
So?
Are other EU member countries suffering equally from the same gig problems?
If not, it’s not an EU induced problem is it?
Look to National Gov policies for problems that are bigger in this country than elsewhere.
And even Pro Brexit politicos are not talking about “sending EEs back”. They speak of different (and cheaper) labour pools.Why have you brought Brexit and the EU into this? You’re on the wrong thread.
The chutzpah to ask such a question, when your own posts are riddled with references to Brexit, Eastern European migration, and so on!
Grandpa:
I’m looking through the jobs and reading that there is a shortage of drivers. They (wherever I read it) say that an estimated 15% of HGV vacancies aren’t filled. I believe it. The jobs are there, from £10ph to ‘earn £800-900 a week’, there’s plenty of them. The problem is the low take home pay after everyone has dipped into it.
.
So, are there really plenty of £800/900 per week jobs? Or lots of adverts for them?
And if you want less people “dipping into” your pay, are you talking of Gov tax policies?
In which case which services do you want to have less funding, so you get more in your pocket? But, although you introduced the subject, I wouldn’t want to be accused of taking this thread off topic, so ignore this question if you like.
Rjan:
Grandpa:
Franglais:
Grandpa:
It’s less to do with the decline of the unions as it is the rise of the gig economy. You can even put a date on this – Blair. When those East European flood gates opened and the equivalent £1ph drivers flooded in what did we expect to happen? You don’t hear the East Europeans complaining about low pay or non-holiday pay. For £10ph they think they’ve died and gone to heaven!It just slowly got worse and whatever the companies could get away with cutting they did and if we didn’t like it, zxggobsmacked from wherever took the job. The same is happening in the distribution warehouses, the construction industry and the NHS. I’m getting offers now with ‘Must be able to speak English’ as a criteria!
Hard Brexit and start sending them home? When the Trucking industry get short of English truckers and can’t fill the vacancies on the cheap, that’s when you’ll see wage rises. Be honest, as we oldies retire and if you had a son or daughter in their early 20s, what’s the last career on earth you’d recommend to them?
So?
Are other EU member countries suffering equally from the same gig problems?
If not, it’s not an EU induced problem is it?
Look to National Gov policies for problems that are bigger in this country than elsewhere.
And even Pro Brexit politicos are not talking about “sending EEs back”. They speak of different (and cheaper) labour pools.Why have you brought Brexit and the EU into this? You’re on the wrong thread.
The chutzpah to ask such a question, when your own posts are riddled with references to Brexit, Eastern European migration, and so on!
A suspicious minded psychologist might describe this as ‘normalisation’?
Creating a background noise, which if unchallenged becomes the norm?
One of the dangers of “echo chambers” etc.
Here they come, the usual oddballs, like moths to a flame. 
Grandpa:
Here they come, the usual oddballs, like moths to a flame. [emoji38]
I can’t be arsed to look it up again, but I seem to recall you previously posting:
“Attack the post, not the poster”.
.
Whether you did or didn’t, it seems a good maxim.
Franglais:
Grandpa:
Here they come, the usual oddballs, like moths to a flame. [emoji38]I can’t be arsed to look it up again, but I seem to recall you previously posting:
“Attack the post, not the poster”.
.
Whether you did or didn’t, it seems a good maxim.
I wouldn’t have said anything, but every forum has its idiots. They usually come in pairs or groups. The thread is about PAYE v Umbrella. If you have nothing to add why spoil it with your usual drivel. Rjan has already arrived, you’re just short of the other one for a hat trick.
Popcorn check
Comfy chair check
As you were…
the nodding donkey:
Popcorn check
Comfy chair check
As you were…
(Yawns and scratches ear). If they didn’t arrive by page 2 it wouldn’t be a proper thread. 
Grandpa:
Here they come, the usual oddballs, like moths to a flame.
More like the fire brigade to burning rubbish.
Grandpa:
Franglais:
Grandpa:
Here they come, the usual oddballs, like moths to a flame. [emoji38]I can’t be arsed to look it up again, but I seem to recall you previously posting:
“Attack the post, not the poster”.
.
Whether you did or didn’t, it seems a good maxim.I wouldn’t have said anything, but every forum has its idiots. They usually come in pairs or groups. The thread is about PAYE v Umbrella. If you have nothing to add why spoil it with your usual drivel. Rjan has already arrived, you’re just short of the other one for a hat trick.
I’ve been following this all along and have made my own relevant contributions.
I must admit I detected you weren’t best pleased to hear the actual history of British employment law and casualised working, rather than your own imaginary account in which all the problems began in the 00s.