PAY CUT

[windrush]

He (CF) certainly has a political ‘Bee in his Bonnet’ without a doubt! Most of it washes over me as I haven’t a political bone in my body and couldn’t care less. Folk do what is best for them, if renting /council housing suits them then so what, got now’t to do with anyone else. We bought our home as it was what was expected of us back then, it will finally be ours when the mortgage ends next year and I will be nearly 66 years of age. We have nobody to leave it to when we ‘go upstairs’ in a few years time so not exactly an investment, plus we would have got a lot more assistance with the wifes disability issues if we had been in council housing or like my friend, another ex driver, who has lived for many years in Housing Association property and rented before that.

Pete.

[war1974]

windrush:
He (CF) certainly has a political ‘Bee in his Bonnet’ without a doubt! Most of it washes over me as I haven’t a political bone in my body and couldn’t care less. Folk do what is best for them, if renting /council housing suits them then so what, got now’t to do with anyone else. We bought our home as it was what was expected of us back then, it will finally be ours when the mortgage ends next year and I will be nearly 66 years of age. We have nobody to leave it to when we ‘go upstairs’ in a few years time so not exactly an investment, plus we would have got a lot more assistance with the wifes disability issues if we had been in council housing or like my friend, another ex driver, who has lived for many years in Housing Association property and rented before that.

Pete.

most sensible comment on here pete.

[carryfast]

war1974:
the thing is carryfast - you may not be aware but it isn’t the 70’s anymore, people go online and order stuff from all over the world. why? because it is cheaper than buying locally, no doubt you will put this down to low wages etc. but the fact of life is everyone loves a bargain, if wages were to increase to the levels mentioned we would still be in the same position but have zero manufacturing industries (how can we compete against china if everyone is on £15 an hour).

wages can only increase if the product is wanted and world class, or you end up with the whole MG Rover/ Leyland etc. and yes we know in the 70’s the tech may have been advanced but look at the mini - why update / improve when we can churn the same thing people have bought for 30 years?

Here’s a clue getting out of the global free market economy would obviously be a part of that.Unless everyone wants to live like the Chinese,in Chinese type housing,under the Chinese Communist system.

As for my memory of the 1970’s.The idea was to demand enough money to afford the big Triumph or Rover or even better a Jag to put on the drive of the private bought house.Although that doesn’t mean that they had to be new as opposed to used examples.

[robroy]

Dipper_Dave:
@carryfast
Sorry if I have missed it but do you now own your house.

Try and keep up Dave, he still lives with his Mam he never left home.
Which amazes me how he thinks he is qualified to even comment let alone crticise (and even judge )those that at least left the nest. Maybe he should stick to his History of British Politics and keep it shut about stuff he has never experienced in life himself
I normally would not comment or ridicule a guys private and personal situation but if he gives it out he should be able to take it

[war1974]

Carryfast:

war1974:
the thing is carryfast - you may not be aware but it isn’t the 70’s anymore, people go online and order stuff from all over the world. why? because it is cheaper than buying locally, no doubt you will put this down to low wages etc. but the fact of life is everyone loves a bargain, if wages were to increase to the levels mentioned we would still be in the same position but have zero manufacturing industries (how can we compete against china if everyone is on £15 an hour).

wages can only increase if the product is wanted and world class, or you end up with the whole MG Rover/ Leyland etc. and yes we know in the 70’s the tech may have been advanced but look at the mini - why update / improve when we can churn the same thing people have bought for 30 years?

Here’s a clue getting out of the global free market economy would obviously be a part of that.Unless everyone wants to live like the Chinese,in Chinese type housing,under the Chinese Communist system.

As for my memory of the 1970’s.The idea was to demand enough money to afford the big Triumph or Rover or even better a Jag to put on the drive of the private bought house.Although that doesn’t mean that they had to be new as opposed to used examples.

so you demanded enough money, they refused you all wander off on strike, meanwhile other countries just decided to get on with it and progress. the end result the ‘high’ wages you demanded meant all of the companies you mentioned are either bust or foreign owned.

[carryfast]

robroy:

Dipper_Dave:
@carryfast
Sorry if I have missed it but do you now own your house.

Try and keep up Dave, he still lives with his Mam he never left home.
Which amazes me how he thinks he is qualified to even comment let alone crticise (and even judge )those that at least left the nest. Maybe he should stick to his History of British Politics and keep it shut about stuff he has never experienced in life himself
I normally would not comment or ridicule a guys private and personal situation but if he gives it out he should be able to take it

That obviously depends on the definition of ‘nest’.In this case it isn’t me who is calling for less wages to maintain dependency on state handouts.

[robroy]

Carryfast:

robroy:

Dipper_Dave:
@carryfast
Sorry if I have missed it but do you now own your house.

Try and keep up Dave, he still lives with his Mam he never left home.
Which amazes me how he thinks he is qualified to even comment let alone crticise (and even judge )those that at least left the nest. Maybe he should stick to his History of British Politics and keep it shut about stuff he has never experienced in life himself
I normally would not comment or ridicule a guys private and personal situation but if he gives it out he should be able to take it

That obviously depends on the definition of ‘nest’.In this case it isn’t me who is calling for less wages to maintain dependency on state handouts.

I think you are confusing me with the o/p mate.
Neither am I

[war1974]

this has got at least 15 pages written all over it

[carryfast]

war1974:

Carryfast:

war1974:
the thing is carryfast - you may not be aware but it isn’t the 70’s anymore, people go online and order stuff from all over the world. why? because it is cheaper than buying locally, no doubt you will put this down to low wages etc. but the fact of life is everyone loves a bargain, if wages were to increase to the levels mentioned we would still be in the same position but have zero manufacturing industries (how can we compete against china if everyone is on £15 an hour).

wages can only increase if the product is wanted and world class, or you end up with the whole MG Rover/ Leyland etc. and yes we know in the 70’s the tech may have been advanced but look at the mini - why update / improve when we can churn the same thing people have bought for 30 years?

Here’s a clue getting out of the global free market economy would obviously be a part of that.Unless everyone wants to live like the Chinese,in Chinese type housing,under the Chinese Communist system.

As for my memory of the 1970’s.The idea was to demand enough money to afford the big Triumph or Rover or even better a Jag to put on the drive of the private bought house.Although that doesn’t mean that they had to be new as opposed to used examples.

so you demanded enough money, they refused you all wander off on strike, meanwhile other countries just decided to get on with it and progress. the end result the ‘high’ wages you demanded meant all of the companies you mentioned are either bust or foreign owned.

Great so Thatcher and the Chinese Communist Party wins out.

In which case that would obviously depend on wether you think that turning to Socialism to do it,as opposed to trade barriers and Fordist Capitalism,is supposedly ‘progress’.

[carryfast]

robroy:

Carryfast:

robroy:
Try and keep up Dave, he still lives with his Mam he never left home.
Which amazes me how he thinks he is qualified to even comment let alone crticise (and even judge )those that at least left the nest. Maybe he should stick to his History of British Politics and keep it shut about stuff he has never experienced in life himself
I normally would not comment or ridicule a guys private and personal situation but if he gives it out he should be able to take it

That obviously depends on the definition of ‘nest’.In this case it isn’t me who is calling for less wages to maintain dependency on state handouts.

I think you are confusing me with the o/p mate.
Neither am I

So you agree that the issue is all about jobs an incomes.Not trying to use state handouts to solve the problem of housing affordability.In which case what the zb are you arguing with me about.

[war1974]

in life you have to adapt, something people with your stance seem very unwilling to do. like I have said irrespective of who is/was/might be in power and no matter what idealism you want to follow, the basic way of the world at present is if you want to buy something you will have people who want quality and will pay for it (on this you can demand higher wages) or people want stuff as cheap as possible (cars/trucks/fuel/food etc.) where you cant pay top notch wages.

you keep banging on about these ‘great’ companies and idealisms yet all of them have gone to the wall, why? most didn’t change most sat back on a comfy chair believing they were the best and people would always buy ‘british’ or the likes. you stand still too long and life will overtake you am afraid. go back 20 years when all the call centres were in England - people started trying to demand more money to answer phone calls, end result some indian is now doing it for a fraction of the price.

[james_the_cat]

Carryfast:

war1974:

Carryfast:

war1974:
the thing is carryfast - you may not be aware but it isn’t the 70’s anymore, people go online and order stuff from all over the world. why? because it is cheaper than buying locally, no doubt you will put this down to low wages etc. but the fact of life is everyone loves a bargain, if wages were to increase to the levels mentioned we would still be in the same position but have zero manufacturing industries (how can we compete against china if everyone is on £15 an hour).

wages can only increase if the product is wanted and world class, or you end up with the whole MG Rover/ Leyland etc. and yes we know in the 70’s the tech may have been advanced but look at the mini - why update / improve when we can churn the same thing people have bought for 30 years?

Here’s a clue getting out of the global free market economy would obviously be a part of that.Unless everyone wants to live like the Chinese,in Chinese type housing,under the Chinese Communist system.

As for my memory of the 1970’s.The idea was to demand enough money to afford the big Triumph or Rover or even better a Jag to put on the drive of the private bought house.Although that doesn’t mean that they had to be new as opposed to used examples.

so you demanded enough money, they refused you all wander off on strike, meanwhile other countries just decided to get on with it and progress. the end result the ‘high’ wages you demanded meant all of the companies you mentioned are either bust or foreign owned.

Great so Thatcher and the Chinese Communist Party wins out.

In which case that would obviously depend on wether you think that turning to Socialism to do it,as opposed to trade barriers and Fordist Capitalism,is supposedly ‘progress’.

You do know man it’s not 1979 don’t you?

Trade barriers? What are we supposed to do if we shut our trade doors? Start making turd brown Austin Maxis again to flog to ourselves at prices our 70s wages can afford? Sunday roasts all round as you won’t want to import food. You’ll have to find another hobby and ditch the Internet unless you use an “Alan sugarstrad-pad”, made using highest quality Yorkshire Moors platinum.

You still ride to work on a Sinclair C5 I reckon. You do, don’t you?

[evil8beezle]

war1974:
this has got at least 15 pages written all over it

Please, kill me now!

I’m sure this thread is now identical to “So in 5 Years, Minimum Wages.”

[carryfast]

war1974:
in life you have to adapt, something people with your stance seem very unwilling to do. like I have said irrespective of who is/was/might be in power and no matter what idealism you want to follow, the basic way of the world at present is if you want to buy something you will have people who want quality and will pay for it (on this you can demand higher wages) or people want stuff as cheap as possible (cars/trucks/fuel/food etc.) where you cant pay top notch wages.

you keep banging on about these ‘great’ companies and idealisms yet all of them have gone to the wall, why? most didn’t change most sat back on a comfy chair believing they were the best and people would always buy ‘british’ or the likes. you stand still too long and life will overtake you am afraid. go back 20 years when all the call centres were in England - people started trying to demand more money to answer phone calls, end result some indian is now doing it for a fraction of the price.

While obviously people like you think that the answer to that isn’t to close the doors and start making stuff for ourselves again at decent wage rates.No let’s turn to socialism and turn the place into another version of zb Socialist China instead.In which case the OP is obviously way ahead of the agenda in calling for less wages to maintain his housing benefit dependency.

[carryfast]

James the cat:
You do know man it’s not 1979 don’t you?

Trade barriers? What are we supposed to do if we shut our trade doors? Start making turd brown Austin Maxis again to flog to ourselves at prices our 70s wages can afford? Sunday roasts all round as you won’t want to import food. You’ll have to find another hobby and ditch the Internet unless you use an “Alan sugarstrad-pad”, made using highest quality Yorkshire Moors platinum.

You still ride to work on a Sinclair C5 I reckon. You do, don’t you?

As in the case of the OP calling for less wages to maintain his state funded housing benefits I’m sure the Chinese Communist Party will be congratulating themselves on reading that.Having obviously convinced the Brits that the Socialist system is ‘progress’ and the way forward.

I’m guessing that you do know that the Austin Maxi was never on the shopping list of anyone who had the sense to demand enough money to buy something better.In which case the choice between that and/or a cheap Jap import to put on the drive of the state subsidised Thatcher council house purchase,as opposed to the V8 Rover etc in the case of the private purchase house,then as now,defined the difference between a zb Socialist v a Capitalist.

[war1974]

Carryfast:

war1974:
in life you have to adapt, something people with your stance seem very unwilling to do. like I have said irrespective of who is/was/might be in power and no matter what idealism you want to follow, the basic way of the world at present is if you want to buy something you will have people who want quality and will pay for it (on this you can demand higher wages) or people want stuff as cheap as possible (cars/trucks/fuel/food etc.) where you cant pay top notch wages.

you keep banging on about these ‘great’ companies and idealisms yet all of them have gone to the wall, why? most didn’t change most sat back on a comfy chair believing they were the best and people would always buy ‘british’ or the likes. you stand still too long and life will overtake you am afraid. go back 20 years when all the call centres were in England - people started trying to demand more money to answer phone calls, end result some indian is now doing it for a fraction of the price.

While obviously people like you think that the answer to that isn’t to close the doors and start making stuff for ourselves again at decent wage rates.No let’s turn to socialism and turn the place into another version of zb Socialist China instead.In which case the OP is obviously way ahead of the agenda in calling for less wages to maintain his housing benefit dependency.

I want quality goods at a price I can afford without making myself obsolete like so many of your era did, I don’t want to follow an ideal or outdated way of the world if no one else is doing it.
the reason the UK manufacturing industry took such a hammering was because we turned out dross for years expecting good old British folks to do their duty.
I have had a mg rover which needed a head gasket about once a month then I went to a Subaru which as long as I changed the oil and belts was bullet proof.
I have seen shipbuilder strike over water / dockers walk out because the guys son didn’t get the job and they had the nerve to give it to someone better qualified, same at royal mail.

yes your way was brilliant carryfast

[desypete]

war1974:

Carryfast:

war1974:
in life you have to adapt, something people with your stance seem very unwilling to do. like I have said irrespective of who is/was/might be in power and no matter what idealism you want to follow, the basic way of the world at present is if you want to buy something you will have people who want quality and will pay for it (on this you can demand higher wages) or people want stuff as cheap as possible (cars/trucks/fuel/food etc.) where you cant pay top notch wages.

you keep banging on about these ‘great’ companies and idealisms yet all of them have gone to the wall, why? most didn’t change most sat back on a comfy chair believing they were the best and people would always buy ‘british’ or the likes. you stand still too long and life will overtake you am afraid. go back 20 years when all the call centres were in England - people started trying to demand more money to answer phone calls, end result some indian is now doing it for a fraction of the price.

While obviously people like you think that the answer to that isn’t to close the doors and start making stuff for ourselves again at decent wage rates.No let’s turn to socialism and turn the place into another version of zb Socialist China instead.In which case the OP is obviously way ahead of the agenda in calling for less wages to maintain his housing benefit dependency.

I want quality goods at a price I can afford without making myself obsolete like so many of your era did, I don’t want to follow an ideal or outdated way of the world if no one else is doing it.
the reason the UK manufacturing industry took such a hammering was because we turned out dross for years expecting good old British folks to do their duty.
I have had a mg rover which needed a head gasket about once a month then I went to a Subaru which as long as I changed the oil and belts was bullet proof.
I have seen shipbuilder strike over water / dockers walk out because the guys son didn’t get the job and they had the nerve to give it to someone better qualified, same at royal mail.

yes your way was brilliant carryfast

where as your way has us doing what ?

from what i see most people are to scared to stand up for themselves anymore as they will be out of a job, that is paying less and less as the years go by

what can they do about it ? nothing but accept whatever pay they can get as the going rate and of course put the hours in to make sure they can keep there roof over there heads

times have changed because the people have let it happen. drivers are the worse case as they have always been that way when it comes to making a stand, there to busy hoping somoene else will make a stand for them and if they lose there job they will be first in line to try to get the job

all drivers are any good at is moaning about poor pay, moaning about long hours, the answer is stop moaning and do something about it

i wonder if there will ever come a time where drivers would unite and say enough is really enough ?

maybe in 5 years time when 9 quid an hour is the going rate it might just make a difference drivers might stand up for themselves,but i dont think it will to be honest as 9 quid an hour is a huge pay for the people who come from poorer country’s

so all i can see happening in the future is the same that has happened to the nhs

you will be lucky to find an English speaking dr or nurse these days and it will be the same for trucking. that’s the Britain of the future

thanks to people like you who just dont have back bone to stand up and be counted. instead you let it all drift by in some sort of hope that it will never get that bad

at least in the olden days the guys did stand up to be counted even if it was to one sided, the difference today is its gone to far over to the other side and people are just scared now

[james_the_cat]

Carryfast:

James the cat:
You do know man it’s not 1979 don’t you?

Trade barriers? What are we supposed to do if we shut our trade doors? Start making turd brown Austin Maxis again to flog to ourselves at prices our 70s wages can afford? Sunday roasts all round as you won’t want to import food. You’ll have to find another hobby and ditch the Internet unless you use an “Alan sugarstrad-pad”, made using highest quality Yorkshire Moors platinum.

You still ride to work on a Sinclair C5 I reckon. You do, don’t you?

As in the case of the OP calling for less wages to maintain his state funded housing benefits I’m sure the Chinese Communist Party will be congratulating themselves on reading that.Having obviously convinced the Brits that the Socialist system is ‘progress’ and the way forward.

I’m guessing that you do know that the Austin Maxi was never on the shopping list of anyone who had the sense to demand enough money to buy something better.In which case the choice between that and/or a cheap Jap import to put on the drive of the state subsidised Thatcher council house purchase,as opposed to the V8 Rover etc in the case of the private purchase house,then as now,defined the difference between a zb Socialist v a Capitalist.

So when you shut down the trade barriers what will happen to your transport industry? Do you think it’ll require the same amount of lorries in the road moving all these British built goods about as it currently does moving imports around? Maybe if we’re all plodding around in Leyland eight leggers, it’ll take ages to move them anywhere. Of course you’ll have to factor in all those who work in the contracted container ports now looking for work. I wouldn’t get excited about keeping the ports thriving with British exports with your Ford idea. The world outside has changed a bit since 1970s. No one will be buying a 2016 Morris marina overseas in sterling prices when they can buy a Toyota. Can’t see box sets of “ey Oop er’s a reet good set of knives and forks” from Sheffield pushing the open market.

Oh hang on, that happened in the 70s, hence toyotas came here. Der, silly me.

[war1974]

desypete:

war1974:

Carryfast:

war1974:
in life you have to adapt, something people with your stance seem very unwilling to do. like I have said irrespective of who is/was/might be in power and no matter what idealism you want to follow, the basic way of the world at present is if you want to buy something you will have people who want quality and will pay for it (on this you can demand higher wages) or people want stuff as cheap as possible (cars/trucks/fuel/food etc.) where you cant pay top notch wages.

you keep banging on about these ‘great’ companies and idealisms yet all of them have gone to the wall, why? most didn’t change most sat back on a comfy chair believing they were the best and people would always buy ‘british’ or the likes. you stand still too long and life will overtake you am afraid. go back 20 years when all the call centres were in England - people started trying to demand more money to answer phone calls, end result some indian is now doing it for a fraction of the price.

While obviously people like you think that the answer to that isn’t to close the doors and start making stuff for ourselves again at decent wage rates.No let’s turn to socialism and turn the place into another version of zb Socialist China instead.In which case the OP is obviously way ahead of the agenda in calling for less wages to maintain his housing benefit dependency.

I want quality goods at a price I can afford without making myself obsolete like so many of your era did, I don’t want to follow an ideal or outdated way of the world if no one else is doing it.
the reason the UK manufacturing industry took such a hammering was because we turned out dross for years expecting good old British folks to do their duty.
I have had a mg rover which needed a head gasket about once a month then I went to a Subaru which as long as I changed the oil and belts was bullet proof.
I have seen shipbuilder strike over water / dockers walk out because the guys son didn’t get the job and they had the nerve to give it to someone better qualified, same at royal mail.

yes your way was brilliant carryfast

where as your way has us doing what ?

from what i see most people are to scared to stand up for themselves anymore as they will be out of a job, that is paying less and less as the years go by

what can they do about it ? nothing but accept whatever pay they can get as the going rate and of course put the hours in to make sure they can keep there roof over there heads

times have changed because the people have let it happen. drivers are the worse case as they have always been that way when it comes to making a stand, there to busy hoping somoene else will make a stand for them and if they lose there job they will be first in line to try to get the job

all drivers are any good at is moaning about poor pay, moaning about long hours, the answer is stop moaning and do something about it

i wonder if there will ever come a time where drivers would unite and say enough is really enough ?

maybe in 5 years time when 9 quid an hour is the going rate it might just make a difference drivers might stand up for themselves,but i dont think it will to be honest as 9 quid an hour is a huge pay for the people who come from poorer country’s

so all i can see happening in the future is the same that has happened to the nhs

you will be lucky to find an English speaking dr or nurse these days and it will be the same for trucking. that’s the Britain of the future

thanks to people like you who just dont have back bone to stand up and be counted. instead you let it all drift by in some sort of hope that it will never get that bad

have you not got a carrier bag to go and ■■■■ in pete?

I went and learned new skills which in turn made me more employable, I earn a decent wage so does my wife who has also studied and improved from what she was doing.

you don’t have to accept ■■■■ wages if you have belief or as others have said on here are good at your job etc. the difference is you seem to think if people don’t earn what you think is a good wage its wrong, personally I don’t give a flying ■■■■ what people earn as long as they are happy with it.

your a relic old boring repeat the same crap on every thread yet no longer do what you were doing.

[carryfast]

war1974:

Carryfast:
While obviously people like you think that the answer to that isn’t to close the doors and start making stuff for ourselves again at decent wage rates.No let’s turn to socialism and turn the place into another version of zb Socialist China instead.In which case the OP is obviously way ahead of the agenda in calling for less wages to maintain his housing benefit dependency.

I want quality goods at a price I can afford without making myself obsolete like so many of your era did, I don’t want to follow an ideal or outdated way of the world

Great so your idea is that it’s better to follow the Chinese idea of exploited cheap labour and in which the state allocates,rations and determines living standards.In which case,as I said,the OP is obviously way ahead of the game in calling for less wages to maintain his state dependency.Which I’m sure the Chinese state would be ecstatic about.