The missus has just received a ‘parking charge notice’ from a company called Civil Enforcement Ltd, £90 or £45 if paid within 14 days. Just lookin for a bit advice on the matter. What’s the difference between penalty and parking charge notice and is it legally enforceable? Do I respond to it or do I turn it into a paper aeroplane and fly it into the bin? What happens if I continually ignore it etc.
newey91:
The missus has just received a ‘parking charge notice’ from a company called Civil Enforcement Ltd, £90 or £45 if paid within 14 days. Just lookin for a bit advice on the matter. What’s the difference between penalty and parking charge notice and is it legally enforceable? Do I respond to it or do I turn it into a paper aeroplane and fly it into the bin? What happens if I continually ignore it etc.
That sounds like one of those silly things that these private parking companies issue when/if they catch you parking on private land. A lot of them are a complete racket, but still best checked out.
Places like the BBC watchdog programme or even Martin Lewis’s MSE site are probably worth searching (the MSE site also has chat forums too, where there’s lots of “pearls of wisdom”).
Sorry I can’t be of more help Matey, but those are where I’d start the hunt…
cost them some money
have a look at www.pepipoo.com
Read a few posts on pepipoo and can see they’ve newe took anyone to court yet, just sent out threatening letters a lot.
Ignore the letter and throw it in the bin where it belongs, take no notice of so called “court” threats, that is hocus pocus designed to scare you in to paying up.
A Penalty Charge Notice can only be issued by officials such as Police, VOSA etc and is legally enforceable in court. You should not ignore these.
But a Parking Charge Notice is no more than an invoice. It is not legally enforceable unless you actually admit to owing the money. Ignore it. They will write again a few times, probably in more threatening terms (threatening “legal action” and so on - not violence!) and (quite correctly) pointing out the possible consequences of getting a County Court Judgement against your name. The CCJ thing is a red herring though - since without a contract or some other form of agreement to pay, they won’t be able to get one. At some point you will start to get letters instead from different, more official sounding firms of Debt Collectors and Solicitors (which, if you do a bit of digging, are almost always run by the same people anyway). Eventually they will simply give up.
Do NOT write back to them, ring them or enter into any other sort of communication. Do NOT return tear-off forms, identify fictitious drivers or try any number of other “clever” wheezes to wind them up. Just ignore them.
newey91:
The missus has just received a ‘parking charge notice’ from a company called Civil Enforcement Ltd, £90 or £45 if paid within 14 days. Just lookin for a bit advice on the matter. What’s the difference between penalty and parking charge notice and is it legally enforceable? Do I respond to it or do I turn it into a paper aeroplane and fly it into the bin? What happens if I continually ignore it etc.
DITTO - well me not mrs
Got one the other day at a medical walk in centre - parked out the way in the only empty place that was safe to do so - empty piece of unused tarmac so not in an authorised bay - took off private parking penalty notice and binned it
Now waiting to bin further paperwork from them that is likely to arrive in post
Had it been a council parking enforcement notice then I would not have parked where I did and would have had to abandon the trip to the walk in centre and gone to add to the A+E queue where we are asked not to go with non emergency medical issues !!
Throw it in the bin. Ignore ALL letters no matter how threatening. It is worthless.
Copy this and alter/delete the bits not relervent.
To:
Central Payment Office, Creative Parking Solutions, Suite 8, Bridge Chambers Business Centre, 1 Bridge Chambers, Barnstaple, Devon EX31 1HB.
Without prejudice, save as to costs
Re. Parking Charge Notice No. ****. Agricultural Inn, Braunton. Vehicle registration **** ***.
Dear Sir/Madam,
I was very surprised to receive a ‘Parking Charge Notice’ (no.****) today at The Agricultural Inn for my vehicle whose registration number is set out at the top of this letter. I dispute the charge for the reasons set out below. Please note that without prejudice to the fact that I dispute the whole basis of the claim, my main beef is with what I consider to be a disproportionate and punitive level of charge.
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No contract
There was no contract between myself and either Creative Parking Solutions or The Agricultural Inn. I did not see the notices when I parked and at that time had no idea any charge whatsoever was required. So the requirements of forming a contract such as a meeting of minds, agreement, certainty of terms, etc were not satisfied. Had I known when I parked, I would have been happy to pay. For what it’s worth, I was helping my local church (St Brannocks) which was organising a Lent Lunch at the Methodist/URC Church next to the Aggi. -
Trespass
If there was no contract, then at most I was guilty of a civil trespass (though this is neither admitted nor denied). If this was the case, I would be liable to damages. Given that I did no damage to the car park and furthermore that the car park was not full when I parked and I believe also when I left, I would suggest that there was therefore no loss at all. -
Punitive/unfair/unreasonable
Without prejudice to the foregoing, even if there was a contract (which is denied):
a. Punitive
The charge that you are levying is punitive and therefore void (ie unenforceable) against me. The charge of £75 is arbitrary and in no way proportionate to any alleged breach of contract. Nor does it even equate to local council charges (which in any event are a completely different beast). This is all the more so for the additional charge of £45 which you say accrues after seven days of non-payment. This would also apply to your mention of any costs incurred through debt recovery unless it followed a court order.
b. Unfair
The charge you are levying is an unfair term (and therefore not binding) pursuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular, Schedule 2 of those Regulations gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list of terms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e) “Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.” Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) states that: “A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer” and 5(2) states: “A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.”
c. Unreasonable
The charge you are levying is an unreasonable indemnity clause pursuant to section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 which provides that: "A person cannot by reference to any contract term be made to indemnify another person (whether a party to the contract or not) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligence or breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.”
Further information
Please take this letter to constitute a written appeal in accordance with your Notice. I also make the following points. I would be grateful for answers to all questions raised and in this respect remind you of the obligations set out in the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct (justice.gov.uk/courts/proced … on_conduct).
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Your cause of action: please make this clear. If you claim that I entered into a contract, please send me a complete breakdown of all the terms and conditions of that contract to which you say I agreed.
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Your loss: please give me a full breakdown as to the actual loss you say was suffered by either yourselves or The Agricultural Inn.
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The appeal: please send me a copy of the procedure which you follow, along with setting out what factors are taken into account, who is the judge or arbitrator and whether they are independent, whether you require oral submissions, whether it is governed by the Arbitration Act 1996 and any other relevant factors. In addition, please give me disclosure of any arguments being put by yourselves on this matter in the Appeal so that I might reply to any new issues which are raised. If you decide to dismiss the appeal, please send me the full reasoning in relation to each of the specific points raised in this letter.
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Time for the appeal. Your parking charge notice says: ‘Appeals/challenges received after 7 (seven) days will not be upheld or considered unless in extreme circumkstances, and at the Company’s discretion.’ Please tell me how you say this complies with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct (above)?
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Your ‘Parking Charge Notice’: what do you say is the status of this document? Do you claim it is an invoice pursuant to a contract (in other words an invoice which would generally get declared to the Inland Revenue) or does it have some other status? If it is the latter, please clarify exactly what you say it is?
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Your status. Your Parking Charge Notice simply mentions ‘Creative Parking Solutions’. Please tell me who exactly is making this charge? Are you a limited company? If so, why is this not indicated on either the Notice or your website (creativeparkingsolutions.co.uk) along with your company registration number? In this respect, I note that the Companies Act 2006 and the Business Names Act 1985 provides that every UK company should list on its website: its name, its company registration number, its place of registration and its registered office address. If you are not a company, then I assume this is run by an individual or individuals and I would appreciate knowing exactly who is making the claim and in what capacity. Are you VAT registered? For what it’s worth, a female member of staff in The Aggi told me to call ‘Frank’. A couple of articles in the North Devon Journal quote ‘Francis Millard’ and ‘Frank Millard’ for Creative Parking Solutions. Is this or are these the person/people running Creative Parking Solutions?
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The Agricultural Inn. A female member of staff in The Agricultural Inn suggested that running the car park had nothing to do with them. Please can you tell me who owns the car park and what is the relationship between The Agricultural Inn and yourselves? Please explain any involvement at all of The Agricultural Inn with yourselves as well as specifically with the Parking Charge Notices. I am also sending them a copy of this letter.
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What is the relationship between ‘Creative Parking Solutions’ and Creative Parking Solutions PLC (www.creativeparkingsolutions.co.uk]
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Your Notice mentions that ‘A photograph may have been taken of the vehicle for evidential value and will be stored in accordance with the Company’s Data Protection procedures’. Please send me a copy of those procedures. Furthermore, pursuant to section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 please send me a copy of any such photo along with a copy of any other data which you hold relating to me.
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Please send me details of any Codes by which you claim to comply and any governing body or other such organisation of which you are a member.
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Please provide me with the name and address of your solicitors (if any) in order that I may copy them into this correspondence.
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For the avoidance of doubt (and without suggesting that you would), please do not do the following:
a. Send me any document purporting to be from the County Court unless it is a valid Claim Form duly issued.
b. Write to me threatening to send round bailiffs without first going through the process of issuing a Claim Form and obtaining judgment.
c. Send me any standard letters either from yourselves or debt-collectors without addressing the specific points raised in this response.
d. I note that your website says: ‘Unlike some of our competitors, we maximise the deterrent value of parking charge notices by ensuring that all notices issued are pursued if necessary to the issue of a court summons.’ Please can you confirm that this is accurate and tell me how many claims you have pursued to a court hearing? Are there any Notices you have issued which have not been enforced? I note in this respect that a female member of staff in The Agricultural Inn told me yesterday that she had had a problem (albeit over a different issue apparently) with one of your parking tickets only the day before and I was given the impression that the Notice was not going to be enforced in that case. -
If you want to make a claim , for your information you can issue online or I am sure that Barnstaple County Court would also be very happy to give you a form. My address for service is set out at the top of this letter. If you do decide to issue:
a. I reserve the right to add further arguments to my Defence.
b. Please rest assured that I will be more than happy to attend any court mediations which might be offered.
I very much look forward to hearing from you.
Yours faithfully
Have fun
Madguy 
The problem with that is if they get ANY response, positive or negative, they go on to the next stage of proceedings, where as if you ignore it completely they will eventually give up, if you go on Martin Lewis’s site I think he advises this from what I’ve been told.
Ignore and file.
Ken
I got one for parking in a comet carpark at 2am till about 5am when everything was shut, think it started at about £90 and ended up at about £280, then they were apparently going to start court proceedings, then the next letter a couple weeks later said as a good will gesture i can pay £90 again… the only parking charge notices to take note of are council ones, other than that ignore them.
Danny
Bin it, and ignore all correspondence. Furthermore a third party cannot claim for trespass/damage feasant that has to be done by the landowner.
PPCs are attempting court more often nowadays.
Appeal the charge, pop over to Pepipoo for further advice.
They are mainly targetting those that ignore their bits of toilet paper for court.
Don’t reply. Ignore it and learn origami, only the police or council can issue ‘parking tickets’ and only the land owner of a private carpark can make any type of claim. They can only claim for loss of earnings or damage. If there were other empty spaces and you didn’t smash into a sign or something there’s NOTHING they can claim for.
Just an update. Went on pepipoo last month for a bit of help, got a letter drafted up and sent off to the parking company, got a letter back the other day…charge cancelled!
Also to the missus’ dads cancelled too
A PCN is just an unsecured debt set against you.
If you don’t pay it, an entry will be made against your credit record as a “bad payer of bills”.
If you crave credit therefore, and continued access to it, you should cough up.
If you think it’s a racket on the other hand (as I do) then you just keep away from other “landmasses” that carry the PCN warnings, since they might try and clamp your vehicle next time you are considered on their patch. Possession is 9/10ths of the law, so once clamped, your car is no longer your own to go where you please in. The police don’t give a ■■■■ in any disputes, so you just languish there whilst the buggers laugh all the way to the bank awaiting payment that will surely come if you want the vehicle stolen by them return.
What’s the difference between “Success” and Failure"?
“Success” is being rewarded for immoral acts, and being allowed to get away with it.
“Failure” is having some conscience stop you along the way. 
Anyone can steal your car tomorrow, and ransom it for return to you, and if the police don’t step in, then such crooked behaviour becomes perfectly legal. 
I got PCN’d at an Asda car park once (parked outside of a proper bay!), so now I just don’t darken their doors again, the price paid for me not risking getting clamped after refusing to pay the “fine”. Their loss, not mine. 
I’m not interested in arguing the toss with Asda, because I’d just get the robots telling me how it’s ‘immoral not to pay my debts’. Is it f…! :twisted:
Gents, for years the advice has been to just Ignore.
This was good advice, as we all know these invoices are not legally enforceable, and the PPCs ‘don’t do court’ because they know they’ll lose. I despise the way these parasites work, they know they have no legal entitlement to your money, yet they harass, intimidate and threaten people into paying up. To the extent that some send fake court papers just to spook people into paying up. In my view they’re just despicable low-lifes.
But some things have changed with the new protection of freedoms act. On the most part, this new act goes in our favour, as it’s owtlawed wheel clamping. But in balance, there’s a few more things gone in the Parking Companies favour too, such as the right to persue the Registered Keeper rather than the actual driver. Don’t get me wrong, these invoices are still not legally enforceable, but the way we approach them needs to be considered. There has been a noticeable increase of the amount of court papers served on motorist over private paring tickets.
The learned chaps at PePiPoo are working on this, and the consensus so far is that Ignoring is not always the best policy. That certainly doesn’t mean paying the parasites, just don’t immediately throw it in the bin without taking advice first!