Parity of Wages

[chainsaw]

Hi guys
Does anyone know anything about how Agency Working Regulations 2011 works re: - parity of wages. I understand it is based on post 12 weeks working??

I ask as a long term agency driver - through choice and as a commitment to my kid - and I don’t limp ( except when I have a hard on ) don’t use a plastic bag and use my phone without a Bluetooth headset … oh and I speak fluent English, unlike most of the so called Lgv drivers that seem to be colonising our industry!!

The reason I ask is I am fed up of working for £30 a shift less than the muppet they currently employ on the run, I don’t get holiday pay, uniform etc. I am self employed, but always have been even before I made the mistake of taking my Class 1 …

Any sensible answers welcome

[war1974]

it will depend on your contract mate.

its that simple, if they have gone Swedish derogation then no you wont get it.

[boredwivdrivin]

Why would a self employed person expect parity of wages with employed person ■■

Self employed would mean you are free to negotiate rates for each job you do .

You employ yourself

[conor]

CHAINSAW:
Hi guys
Does anyone know anything about how Agency Working Regulations 2011 works re: - parity of wages. I understand it is based on post 12 weeks working??

I ask as a long term agency driver - through choice and as a commitment to my kid - and I don’t limp ( except when I have a hard on ) don’t use a plastic bag and use my phone without a Bluetooth headset … oh and I speak fluent English, unlike most of the so called Lgv drivers that seem to be colonising our industry!!

The reason I ask is I am fed up of working for £30 a shift less than the muppet they currently employ on the run, I don’t get holiday pay, uniform etc. I am self employed, but always have been even before I made the mistake of taking my Class 1 …

Any sensible answers welcome

Yes I know about them.

OK first point to address. Are you working for the agency on PAYE because if you’re not then they don’t apply. They only apply to agency workers on PAYE. You say you’re self employed so sorry mate, it doesn’t apply to you.

I will continue on for the sake of those reading who want to know the answer as well…

You’re entitled to parity pay once you’ve worked 12 weeks at a place and that 12 weeks does not have to be continuous HOWEVER there is a get out for the agencies in the form of the Swedish Derogation. Basically what that means is that they can get out of the parity pay by guaranteeing you a minimum number of paid hours a week if there’s no work and under the Swedish Derogation you have to accept whats offered, not just at the client you normally work at, or they don’t have to pay you that minimum if there’s no work and they’re still in compliance.

The good news is that currently there are two large unions challenging the Swedish Derogation in court and if they win there’ll be a lot of agency workers who will benefit but again only those on PAYE.

Basically what you need to do is find out if the agency is using the Swedish Derogation and that’ll be in your contract. If it isn’t (it says my agency DOES use it in my contract but is worded as “guaranteed pay in absence of an assignment”), then you’re entitled to parity pay. Bad news is that your agency isn’t likely to give you it without a fight which may include having to go to tribunal.

But as you’re self employed Chainsaw, you’re not entitled to parity pay nor holiday pay or anything else any of the agency workers on PAYE are and that DOES include no entitlement to be paid on time. Self employed you basically give up all employment rights.

As you’re self employed have you thought about going to the client direct?

[war1974]

companies have been challenging Swedish since the scheme came into force conor.

[gangan]

It all depends on the terms and conditions in the contract. I have just left a forklift operators job for many reasons but one of them was the difference in wages. I and other ‘new starters’ are on 7k a year less than guys we work along side. Exactly the same shifts, hours, duties, responsibilities, breaks and work load. To rub salt into the wound, the annual bonus is based on a percentage of your wage. The ‘new starters’ got just over a grand bonus this year while those on the old contract cleared two and a half! The only difference was the before and after date of joining the company. Its all legal and above board and I know of several other companies where exactly the same thing goes on including for drivers in double manned cabs!

[war1974]

if your self employed you wont get it conor is 100% correct on that one am afraid .

[chainsaw]

Thanks guys
Swedish Derogation, ■■■■ me that had me on Google - I was hoping for something a bit more exciting - but hey I learnt something new, yet another way of eroding workers rights!

I have told my agency that I will now being going where the money is, loyalty is worth nothing in this day and age.

As I said it is my circumstances that keep me on agency and am tearing my hair out having to turn down numerous good jobs this last year

I am fed up of working for one company that is paying £3 an hour less than their employed drivers.

Reality is self employed agency rates should be at least 50% higher than employed drivers just to cover the benefits that they do not get ie holidays etc.

Anyway I am off to Google Swedish DEGRADATION and see if the results are more pleasing

[war1974]

just put Swedish in the search box.

as conor said most offer the £1 per hour more as this will work out better than getting holiday pay in most cases (time you get the 13 weeks average etc worked out), but again don’t think this cant be negotiated.

the only reason if I ever went back to driving I would go self employed is I normally worked for about 3 agencies and often lost my holiday pay as I forgot who I had accrued what with.

[dozy]

Well you’ve well and truly
Blown the myth out the water
Pedaled by the agency drivers on here that they earn bucket loads of money ore than company drivers,30 per shift less, what that &3
Ph less
Truth was bound to come
Out sooner
Or
Later

[chicane]

Depends on the agency/company, my son will be starting class 2 on around £1.50 more than company A’s drivers, I’m on parity with another company B’s drivers which is higher still. Wouldn’t have thought the difference would ever be that big TBH. For us going agency is about being able to work when it suits.

[chainsaw]

This inequality is only with one company, most of the others it is above, and I still think the rate is appalling… but I value my licence and believe the work that I do because of it should be higher rewarded, I know experienced guys working for £7.50 ph, sorry but you get more than that stacking shelves. Reality is drivers will always have the ■■■■ taken out of them because we do not stick together!!

[chainsaw]

Oh Dozy I imagine that there are agency drivers out there earning the amount they say, but they must be working 70 hours every week including January February etc.

I never go short of work and am in the middle of 6 long nights now, I lose out because of Family commitments that mean I have to take a lot of time off for Childcare.

But surely you all know by now 90% of drivers are full of ■■■■■■■■ and will only ever tell you about the best week they ever had, and that figure will be before tax etc.

[war1974]

i have drivers regular guy I mean who will invoice over £800 for most of the year which aint too bad.

the only point I would ask is were you happy doing the job until you found out there own guy was on more? I know I may not get paid as much as my colleagues but I enjoy the job and I have a wage I am happy with - if they get a bit more fair enough, I am not going to cut my nose off for an extra grand or so (£50/60 a month after tax?).

my point being you have obviously decided the rates were fine right up until you now feel hard done by as you perceive you are a better worker /driver (not saying your not before that can of worms opens up), but now you know he gets more your unhappy, I would speak to the agency and ask for a raise see what they say, let them know what you know (if its true) they may also be getting screwed ( I have had firms fill in AWR forms and thought ■■■■■■■■ when I have seen the rate they put down ) questioned it and boom its all of a sudden gone up.

[contraflow]

dozy:
Well you’ve well and truly
Blown the myth out the water

+1

Not the first time it’s happened either.

One of the reasons I’d never do agency work is the cut in pay I’d have to take.

[contraflow]

war1974:
i have drivers regular guy I mean who will invoice over £800 for most of the year which aint too bad.

Over £800 a year? Jesus. How the other half live.

[war1974]

Contraflow:

war1974:
i have drivers regular guy I mean who will invoice over £800 for most of the year which aint too bad.

Over £800 a year? Jesus. How the other half live.

haha how did I know the monkey would come on? ok I admit I should have said each week

I don’t think dozy is in any position to talk about ‘wages’ seeing as he recently worked a Saturday for about a tenner and now sleeps on the settee.

[winseer]

If “Parity of Wages” is becoming a more current issue now - what does that tell you about pay rates in general?

I suspect it’s because full-time rates are starting to rise, wheras agency rates are still stagnating.

In another 5 years, all agencies might be paying below all full time rates - leaving those who work on agency with the reputation that, I suspect we’ve had all along - that we’re all useless, and only on agency in the first place because we can’t get a real job…

The main criteria for a yard thinking of hiring an agency driver for the first time - will be “Are this firm’s insurances good enough if boddo smashes up our kit here?”

There’s even room for the insurance fiddle “Hey, we need that 03 plate replacing - get an agency in to cover smithy next week, and we’ll put in a claim for a new one on the cover’s insurance…”

[chainsaw]

Hi War 1974 no I was not happy doing the work at that pay to start with but was lured with the chance of a full time position on the higher pay, a job which I was offered time and time again when I could not accept through circumstances. When the job and circumstances became available the agency put forward somebody else, I later found out because" I AM TOO VALUABLE TO THE AGENCY" … and when I confronted the employing company their reason was that I had asked if 2 weeks unpaid leave to care for my daughter was possible was their reason for going with the other guy, I bet they would not have said that to a woman!!!
And as for do I consider myself a better driver, I don’t have to the guy they took on can’t even put the trailer on the bay properly, has had at least three accidental damages in the last couple of months, and all the staff at the hub tell me they can’t believe I was not given the job as the new guy is an arse!! So yes I consider myself a better driver, also my mate who works there and has 40 years experience will tell you I have more experience in a month than he has had in his career (!) because on the agency I do lots of different work.
As for the original argument, parity of pay should be a given if you are doing the same job surely■■?

[chainsaw]

Hi Winseer
You might be right with that quote as an agency I work for has told me companies are demanding much more insurance cover, yet expect not to pay anymore…

I now take photos of any damage and defect all previous damage, I had a decker the other week with a freshly damaged roof and I refused to drive it until the company text me acknowledging that it was not my fault.

A mate of mine was recently accused of trashing a new wagon, funnily enough they were trying to con the agency and it was only when he produced photographic proof that the damage was there prior to his shift the conning ■■■■■ backed down, and I and at least three other drivers have now refused to work for the company.

I am fed up with the damage always being associated with agency drivers, trust me some of the so called drivers they are allowing out on the road these days its no surprise the dings and dents keep appearing …