PAPER REELS

[carryfast]

newmercman:
Carryfast, to quote a million old time Bewick style drivers, 'it’s the sheet that holds the load on, the ropes hold the sheet on

Even though you will, you cannot argue with the laws of physics, my example of a load of pipe demonstrates this perfectly, so sit back for a moment and imagine a hard at work 12V92, now are we relaxed? Is our brain working again? Now think about that load of pipe, see I’m right

But the really worrying thing is that with a curtain sider they don’t want/need to bother with the ropes or straps anyway.But I can just imagine that Detroit hard at work with a full load of pipes or reels on the back of a curtainsider with zb all holding them except the curtains. But I can also just picture that old time Bewick style driver saying it ‘should’ have been the sheet which held the load on and the ropes which held the sheet on as he watched that load of reels rolling across that cornfield.

[newmercman]

Carryfast:

newmercman:
Carryfast, to quote a million old time Bewick style drivers, 'it’s the sheet that holds the load on, the ropes hold the sheet on

Even though you will, you cannot argue with the laws of physics, my example of a load of pipe demonstrates this perfectly, so sit back for a moment and imagine a hard at work 12V92, now are we relaxed? Is our brain working again? Now think about that load of pipe, see I’m right

But the really worrying thing is that with a curtain sider they don’t want/need to bother with the ropes or straps anyway.But I can just imagine that Detroit hard at work with a full load of pipes or reels on the back of a curtainsider with zb all holding them except the curtains. But I can also just picture that old time Bewick style driver saying it ‘should’ have been the sheet which held the load on and the ropes which held the sheet on as he watched that load of reels rolling across that cornfield.

I hope you don’t run out of Kleenex

[wheel_nut]

I can agree in principle to the theory of alternative strapping, but the trailers that are often used between the Scandinavian states and Baltic areas have fitted ratchet reels on the trailer, with straps attached permanently to the opposite chassis or rave. This supports the idea of the short lengths of rope the yanks use and stops the straps being crossed or used with opposing forces.

I also support Carryfast’s ideas that the MDF is not well secured, well apart from the top packs I also don’t understand what the comment about the position of the number plate signifies, certainly not that the truck is LHD or RHD.

Tarpaulins and rope do hold reels, barrels, timber and sacks and all other things that trucks carry, just like a pack of A4 paper is more secure in a thin paper wrapper then loose, or a load of barrels, on the roll using a scotch or chocks then covered and roped between the valleys is more secure, a shrinkwrapped pallet of loose cartons is safe but the polythene is very flimsy until it is stretched.

Now the debate continues about who is to blame for standing reels on their ends, the answer being in the new technology and the fact that reels are getting taller or longer depending on your prospective. Super jumbo reels are 3.88 metres according to UPM and their website shows how they want it doing. Click on the lashing and anti slip links

Another modern method in the last 30 years of carrying bulk chemicals is Octabins, these tall octagonal cartons have been suitable to stand upright in a curtainsider until those clever Germans invented a load restraint system, coming to these shores soon Commentary in German but you will soon get the gist.

seifert-logistics.com/wEngli … t+LaSiChem

[roger_breaker]

Took this out this morning. Steering felt a bit light and was suffering with a bit of understeer, so i gave it a shunt. If anything, it made it even harder to turn!

[muckles]

Carryfast:
Sorry but I’ve got to disagree with the physics lesson .It atually makes no difference where the actual tensioning device is because the pull is applied equally in opposing directions between the hooks that the straps/ropes/chains are attached to

Wrong the friction of the load will prevent the non-tensioner side from tensioning after a certain point when the friction of the strap against the load is greater than the tension exerted by the tensioner. I know this from experience of carrying both wood and concrete on flat bed trailers.

Carryfast:
I think I get it now Bewick.You can use a sheet or the curtains on a curtainsider to hold anything you like.

The difference between a curtain and a sheet for load security is that a sheet is tight against the load, and the doesn’t allow the load to gain momentum, but there is a gap against a load and a curtain and any load shift then gains momentum. It’s the same reason as you should load against the headboard to stop the load picking momentum under heavy braking.

[carryfast]

muckles:

Carryfast:
Sorry but I’ve got to disagree with the physics lesson .It atually makes no difference where the actual tensioning device is because the pull is applied equally in opposing directions between the hooks that the straps/ropes/chains are attached to

Wrong the friction of the load will prevent the non-tensioner side from tensioning after a certain point when the friction of the strap against the load is greater than the tension exerted by the tensioner. I know this from experience of carrying both wood and concrete on flat bed trailers.

Carryfast:
I think I get it now Bewick.You can use a sheet or the curtains on a curtainsider to hold anything you like.

The difference between a curtain and a sheet for load security is that a sheet is tight against the load, and the doesn’t allow the load to gain momentum, but there is a gap against a load and a curtain and any load shift then gains momentum. It’s the same reason as you should load against the headboard to stop the load picking momentum under heavy braking.

In which case it would then mean that the side without the tensioner will always be under less tension than the side with it .In which case every type of tensioning system which operates on one side such as the ratchet type tensioners attached to many types of foreign flats for years would have a built in inherent design flaw which they don’t and even by alternating the tensioners you’d still have loose restraints on one side or the other which is’nt the case…The co efficient of friction is the same on both sides,at whichever point of contact with the load and depending on it’s relationship to the direction of the pull,and is directly proportional to the tension applied to the ropes/straps/chains.An example would be to put your hand under the rope/■■■■■■■■ each side as it’s tightened or more scientifically (and less painful and more accurate) test the pull with a tension meter on both sides.In this context we’re talking about an equal pull on both sides of the load.Having said that I know from experience that ‘sometimes’ the ropes/straps/chains can stick or get jammed against the load at certain points as they’re being tensioned.In which case they’ve got to be released,re positioned and re tensioned.However the idea of restraining a load is to apply a sufficient opposing force in all planes to stop the forces which ‘cause’ momentum/acceleration in the load not to try to stop the load when it’s too late by which time even the average headboard,let alone a sheet (or curtain) tied around it,would’nt be able to stop it.In your idea a load on a curtainsider,with no restraints,but tight up against the curtains,would be safe .

[muckles]

Carryfast:

muckles:

Carryfast:
Sorry but I’ve got to disagree with the physics lesson .It atually makes no difference where the actual tensioning device is because the pull is applied equally in opposing directions between the hooks that the straps/ropes/chains are attached to

Wrong the friction of the load will prevent the non-tensioner side from tensioning after a certain point when the friction of the strap against the load is greater than the tension exerted by the tensioner. I know this from experience of carrying both wood and concrete on flat bed trailers.

Carryfast:
I think I get it now Bewick.You can use a sheet or the curtains on a curtainsider to hold anything you like.

The difference between a curtain and a sheet for load security is that a sheet is tight against the load, and the doesn’t allow the load to gain momentum, but there is a gap against a load and a curtain and any load shift then gains momentum. It’s the same reason as you should load against the headboard to stop the load picking momentum under heavy braking.

In which case it would then mean that the side without the tensioner will always be under less tension than the side with it .In which case every type of tensioning system which operates on one side such as the ratchet type tensioners attached to many types of foreign flats for years would have a built in inherent design flaw which they don’t and even by alternating the tensioners you’d still have loose restraints on one side or the other which is’nt the case…The co efficient of friction is the same at all points of contact with the load and is directly proportional to the tension applied to the ropes/straps/chains.An example would be to put your hand under the rope/■■■■■■■■ each side as it’s tightened or more scientifically (and less painful and more accurate) test the pull with a tension meter on both sides.In this context we’re talking about an equal pull on both sides of the load.Having said that I know from experience that ‘sometimes’ the ropes/straps/chains can stick or get jammed against the load at certain points as they’re being tensioned.In which case they’ve got to be released,re positioned and re tensioned.However the idea of restraining a load is to apply a sufficient opposing force in all planes to stop the forces which ‘cause’ momentum/acceleration in the load not to try to stop the load when it’s too late by which time even the average headboard,let alone a sheet (or curtain) tied around it,would’nt be able to stop it.In your idea a load on a curtainsider,with no restraints,but tight up against the curtains,would be safe .

But it does happen, and more so if the load has a high surface friction, EG packs of wood, and the more tension the more surface friction the less the strap slides to equal out on both sides. This doesn’t mean one side is dangerously loose, but it has less tention than the tentioned side. It’s probably not noticable with plastic corner boards as they are pretty low friction and therefore the strap will equal out.

Chains don’t do this at least not as noticable, as thay have a smaller contact area and lower friction than straps and steel against steel is pretty low friction and ropes also have quite a small contact area, so probably it’s not noticable.

In theory you can carry a heavier load tight up against a curtain, than away from it. this is due to inertia and momentum, the load against the curtain has to have more force exerted on it before it moves through the curtain, the load not against a curtain will need to have less force exerted on it before it moves on the bed of the trailer and once it does it will have momentum before it hit the curtain therefore will hit the curtain with a greater force (mass x velocity) than the load up against the curtain. Exactly the same principle as the load being more secure hard up against the headboard than away from it.

I’m not saying that if you load steel up against curtains the curtain will hold it regardless.

[carryfast]

muckles:

Carryfast:

muckles:

Carryfast:
Sorry but I’ve got to disagree with the physics lesson .It atually makes no difference where the actual tensioning device is because the pull is applied equally in opposing directions between the hooks that the straps/ropes/chains are attached to

Wrong the friction of the load will prevent the non-tensioner side from tensioning after a certain point when the friction of the strap against the load is greater than the tension exerted by the tensioner. I know this from experience of carrying both wood and concrete on flat bed trailers.

Carryfast:
I think I get it now Bewick.You can use a sheet or the curtains on a curtainsider to hold anything you like.

The difference between a curtain and a sheet for load security is that a sheet is tight against the load, and the doesn’t allow the load to gain momentum, but there is a gap against a load and a curtain and any load shift then gains momentum. It’s the same reason as you should load against the headboard to stop the load picking momentum under heavy braking.

In which case it would then mean that the side without the tensioner will always be under less tension than the side with it .In which case every type of tensioning system which operates on one side such as the ratchet type tensioners attached to many types of foreign flats for years would have a built in inherent design flaw which they don’t and even by alternating the tensioners you’d still have loose restraints on one side or the other which is’nt the case…The co efficient of friction is the same at all points of contact with the load and is directly proportional to the tension applied to the ropes/straps/chains.An example would be to put your hand under the rope/■■■■■■■■ each side as it’s tightened or more scientifically (and less painful and more accurate) test the pull with a tension meter on both sides.In this context we’re talking about an equal pull on both sides of the load.Having said that I know from experience that ‘sometimes’ the ropes/straps/chains can stick or get jammed against the load at certain points as they’re being tensioned.In which case they’ve got to be released,re positioned and re tensioned.However the idea of restraining a load is to apply a sufficient opposing force in all planes to stop the forces which ‘cause’ momentum/acceleration in the load not to try to stop the load when it’s too late by which time even the average headboard,let alone a sheet (or curtain) tied around it,would’nt be able to stop it.In your idea a load on a curtainsider,with no restraints,but tight up against the curtains,would be safe .

But it does happen, and more so if the load has a high surface friction, EG packs of wood, and the more tension the more surface friction the less the strap slides to equal out on both sides. This doesn’t mean one side is dangerously loose, but it has less tention than the tentioned side. It’s probably not noticable with plastic corner boards as they are pretty low friction and therefore the strap will equal out.

Chains don’t do this at least not as noticable, as thay have a smaller contact area and lower friction than straps and steel against steel is pretty low friction and ropes also have quite a small contact area, so probably it’s not noticable.

In theory you can carry a heavier load tight up against a curtain, than away from it. this is due to inertia and momentum, the load against the curtain has to have more force exerted on it before it moves through the curtain, the load not against a curtain will need to have less force exerted on it before it moves on the bed of the trailer and once it does it will have momentum before it hit the curtain therefore will hit the curtain with a greater force (mass x velocity) than the load up against the curtain. Exactly the same principle as the load being more secure hard up against the headboard than away from it.

I’m not saying that if you load steel up against curtains the curtain will hold it regardless.

An unrestrained load actually already contains the velocity side of the equation in addition to the mass.It’s stored as kinetic energy which means that if you brake from 50 mph the load will want to keep going at the same speed wether it’s against the headboard or not and it’s just a matter of time and acceleration.The difference is that if there’s a gap between the headboard and the load it’ll already have built up more of a velocity and there’ll be a bigger speed differential between the slowing truck and the accelerating load as it goes through it.But the ‘amount’ of energy contained in the load will be the same when you take into account the kinetic side of the equation and the result,unless it’s a very strong headboard,will be just the same.The same type of energy applies in the case of lateral loading against a curtain dependent on centre of gravity and lateral G forces.In either case wether it’s 20 +tonnes of steel or reels it’s going to go through the headboard or the curtains wether it’s already built up a large speed differential between itself and the truck or not.

[newmercman]

Muckles,

You’re spot on mate, I’ve been trying to tell him, but…

The trailers that have fixed tensioners on the sides have them in an alternating pattern down both sides, I know this because I’ve pulled enough of them, both doing traction from the docks and when I was on flat decks out here, they are like this for exactly the reasons we both stated, I’ll dig out some pics when I finish banging my head against the wall

Roger Breaker, I think you may be a little heavy on the front axle, bump the tyre pressure up a bit, it may make the steering a bit lighter

[davyboy]

Is it just me or is this thread now BORING!!!

[brit_pete]

@wheelnut, thanks for posting that link to Seifert the clip shows the system
that they have designed and it is great also you could use it for other loads as well
and what is the norm for Germany it has been tested and approved for HAZ/ADR
loads as well,well worth people having a good look at the film clip as it is excellent,
once more many thanks wheelnut,

[carryfast]

newmercman:
Muckles,

You’re spot on mate, I’ve been trying to tell him, but…

The trailers that have fixed tensioners on the sides have them in an alternating pattern down both sides, I know this because I’ve pulled enough of them, both doing traction from the docks and when I was on flat decks out here, they are like this for exactly the reasons we both stated, I’ll dig out some pics when I finish banging my head against the wall

Roger Breaker, I think you may be a little heavy on the front axle, bump the tyre pressure up a bit, it may make the steering a bit lighter

Alternating tensioners whatever But the ze German’s load did’nt exactly look like the leaning tower of Pisa and you would’nt have wanted to put your hand between the load and the straps on the ‘untensioned’ side as he tightened them It’s just that he could have used some more of them to hold all the load instead of just some of it But Roger Breaker’s idea of trying to turn an artic into a rigid seems to be more relevant to the argument.

[wheel_nut]

As a heavy plant man you would think CF had noticed that if you use a chain and sylvester, the chain may be tight on the side of the tensioner but you could probably find some movement on the other side of the tracks, even with his ratchet tensioners there will still be slackness.

Newmercman mentioned the trailers he used as having the fixed ratchets on alternate sides. The trailers I meant that were maybe wrongly built and had the winches down one side only, probably Tor Line or Cobelfret equipment. But do not let the Americans pretend everything is any rosier across the pond

[carryfast]

Wheel Nut:
As a heavy plant man you would think CF had noticed that if you use a chain and sylvester, the chain may be tight on the side of the tensioner but you could probably find some movement on the other side of the tracks, even with his ratchet tensioners there will still be slackness.

Newmercman mentioned the trailers he used as having the fixed ratchets on alternate sides. The trailers I meant that were maybe wrongly built and had the winches down one side only, probably Tor Line or Cobelfret equipment. But do not let the Americans pretend everything is any rosier across the pond

As a ‘plant man’ I’d already said to Muckles that I know that chains (and ropes/straps) will often catch on the load at different points in which case you’ll get that effect of a tight chain between that point and the anchoring point and loose after in which case the snag has to be dealt with not the point of tensioning.That’s not the same issue as saying that it makes any difference as to where the tensioner is positioned on an equal pull between two anchorage points.

hankstruckpictures.com/pix/t … silver.jpg By the way notice how the straps are all being tensioned from the offside except for maybe one.That’s Germany and USA 2 UK nil. although admittedly those trailers have possibly got an alternating pattern of tensioners on both sides just to please everyone who thinks that all tensioning has to be done in an alternating mirror image from both sides

[206doorman]

Returning to the OP’s question:
I carry reels on a rigid almost every day. Each one/two has a rachet strap and corner protectors.
It takes a max of 10 mins to do.

In my opinion,this is the right way to do it.

[I’ve read all the comments above btw, I still prefer my method ]

[driveroneuk]

Knew I had these pics somewhere.

This was on Deeside a few years ago.
It was a Saturday afternoon & quite breezy.

Never having loaded/carried them before I was totally on my own, no one around to ask, no sign of any edge protectors anywhere. I just did the best I could. It took me over 2 hours. Heaven knows what would have happened had I fallen off the ladder which looked it hadn’t been off the back of the cab in a year.
Everytime I came down the ladder & tried to tighten a strap it would slide off centre & so come off the top of the roll

Our trailers had the belly winches as have been mentioned above, but they are useless for an angled pull. i.e. the strap has to be vertical above then.

No doubt some will find something to critisize, but as stated, with no experience, on my own, I did the best I could.

[kyrbo]

Driveroneuk:

Ouch. That red strap pressing into the paper reel looks really nasty, meaning hefty claim coming from the consignee. But then, having no edge protectors it’s bit difficult to secure those without damage. Bad thing your trailer didn’t even seem to have any “woods” running alongside the curtain between “masts”, those can be used as “edge protectors” when you put those on top of the reels and pull strap over them, between the reels.

For original question, when loaded on the end, friction coefficient between plywood trailer floor and paper reel is between 0.4 to 0.5 meaning that friction itself provides almost enough sideways load securing required by (Finnish) law regarding load restraining. Avoid protective paper between trailer floor and reels as some papers can be slippery. Stacked paper reels have friction coefficient of 0.5 between them meaning that they do not require any extra load securing sideways.

When loaded on the end, reels however must be strapped so that they don’t turn over during normal traffic maneuvers (evasive action is part of normal traffic). If rolls height is not more than half of the rolls diameter, it doesn’t need to strapped against turning over. If roll is higher you must strap it so that it doesn’t turn over.

Personally, when I’ve had paper reels I’ve loaded them from headboard and into rows if possible. Leave no gaps. That way you don’t have to worry much about securing load towards front. That isn’t always possible, like with tall and heavy reels (you have to leave gap between the ones over fifth wheel and the ones over trailer bogie).

Most important thing to keep in mind is that reel corners (and ends generally) are very prone to damage and one must avoid at all costs using strap without any corner protectors over reels corner. Side of the reels withstands great amount of pressure without damage so you don’t have to worry about that.

If you want to be sure, put two straps crossed over each roll and with corner protectors. Most of the time I haven’t seen this necessary. If you use one strap over each reel put strap perpendicular over it’s widest diameter. That way you maximize your odds that strap doesn’t fall of when you tension it. If you have any woods (used under timber, concrete, steel, planks etc. or between the masts of your curtainsider) with you throw them over the reels and strap over it. That helps keeping ■■■■■■■■ place.

You can also strap reels without corner protectors using the woods. In this case you pull wood so that it either goes over two reels or comes over the both edges of single reel and strap the wood down to floor so that strap doesn’t go over the reels edge. Keep in mind that you can’t secure more than one (or two with great caution) reels with a single wood. If you try to do it and there is a big gap between the woods, strap just pulls the woods closer together and strap becomes loose.

If you do paper reels regularly try to get a set of plastic corner protectors (either short ones or the long ones). They help you no end in securing the reels. Those long plastic corner protectors can be seen for example on the rigid in following picture (I’ve already taken those away from the trailer):

[bagpuss]

i went past an accident on the m1 southbound a couple of years ago( i was northbound) . the reels had come through the head board and it looked like it had took the cab off the chassis . I think it was one of Malcoms of Brookfield ( could be wrong as i only glanced over as the rubberneckers were doing my head in. i think it could have been the accident where one of the guys coming from one of the pallet places in fradley lost his life

[driveroneuk]

Good post Kyrbo, obviously the Finns take a common sense approach.

Some good tips in there too.

[switchlogic]

Funnily enough I’m carrying reels right now. There held on with bailer twine and duct tape.