grumpyken52:
I watched the programme tonight .
If you ignore all the sensational headlines and all the weeping relatives it was still very damning of the system .
2 1/2 miles between safe havens , Radar systems only installed on two sections pf the whole network .
17 minutes to notice a problem, 17 further minutes before response arrives .
Yet speed cameras are installed on every section of upgraded “managed” motorways .
Money is the driving force not safety.
Will changes happen before a major accident ?
One fact is very alarming , on a section of M25 before it was a Smart motorway their were under 100 near misses recorded in 5 years , in the 5 years after it was upgraded their have been over 1400 .
Lots and lots of things have been done wrong and it would appear to me that many decisions have been made by people utterly unqualified to make them .
Even the minister who was in place in the initial trials on the M42 has condemned the current system .
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I just watched it and agree with much of the above. I can see the point that in a perfect world, where everyone can stop safely in the distance they can see to be clear (I know, probably 45mph max on motorways!) and nobody ever has a breakdown or puncture these collisions wouldn’t happen and the smart motorway idea would be safe. However, much as we’d all like it to be, the world is not perfect. Drivers are very poorly trained and even less inclined to learn anything more than they did to pass their test. There are enough problems getting them to use 2 lanes properly, never mind coping with 3 or 4 with or without a hard shoulder or refuge areas. It seems pure madness to create these roads - they will not be safe until we have nothing but perfect drivers on the road.
One problem these days seems to be that the general public doesn’t get any education on any new systems or regulations. It used to be done via Public Information films that were shown on all the TV channels and in cinemas.
It was very telling that many on the programme didn’t know anything about smart motorways yet still travel on them .
grumpyken52:
One problem these days seems to be that the general public doesn’t get any education on any new systems or regulations. It used to be done via Public Information films that were shown on all the TV channels and in cinemas.
It was very telling that many on the programme didn’t know anything about smart motorways yet still travel on them.
There are videos on all social media platforms, YouTube etc, I’ve seen them on TV and heard them on the radio, so the adverts are out there, what can you do if people think they know better and don’t want to watch them?
As I understand it the trials happened with refuges every 500mtres. The current schemes have refuges every 2,500m. Rolling a couple hundred metres into a refuge is often possible, rolling much further isn’t.
Somewhere between a relatively successful trial, and the implementation economies have been made resulting in this cockup.
It isn’t safe.
If drivers were better it would be safer, but then, so would all roads. Adverts etc aren’t making things better, more refuges do make things better.
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We are where we are. If we haven’t got the cash for a full hard shoulder, then at least more refuges.
tc trans:
4 lanes in one direction, suddenly someone has a bump, all 4 lanes come to a grinding halt… how do the emergency services now get to the scene… 4 lanes of standing traffic impeding their progress to the scene of the problem.
They’ll travel contra down the now closed motorway.
About how long would it take to authorise that? Not a big issue for vehicle recovery, but when a motorway is blocked with no hard shoulder for ambulances?
grumpyken52:
One problem these days seems to be that the general public doesn’t get any education on any new systems or regulations. It used to be done via Public Information films that were shown on all the TV channels and in cinemas.
It was very telling that many on the programme didn’t know anything about smart motorways yet still travel on them.
There are videos on all social media platforms, YouTube etc, I’ve seen them on TV and heard them on the radio, so the adverts are out there, what can you do if people think they know better and don’t want to watch them?
Some of us do not watch any TV with adverts and seldom turn the thing on…
My wife will not have a mobile phone, thus the only time I bother is when I am driving a lorry, even then I sometimes forget to take it with me.
I relish the day I am phone free…One size fits all approach to the members of the public has to stop, as can be seen by the use of the road system, we are all different and the variables seem infinite, so the deaths will continue.
keepthefaith:
about smart motorways watch the program and make yer own minds up shocking death stastistics ban em
The idea works in principal, but it doesn’t account for the following:
People breaking down with extreme issues (tyre blowout, engine ceasing etc)
Less than average drivers, who may not be paying attention
Foreign drivers, whereby no such system exists elsewhere
To make such a system more reliable, you need to enforce education, as it’s counter intuitive from normal driving to use hard shoulders. You also need more frequent emergency areas, by which point, you may as well just add a hard shoulder back in.
Great theory, I’m sure it also reduces congestion, and it’s executed in the correct way. Just it’s always going to cause issues, and I think those issues outweigh the congestion factor, as people are dying. Whether it’s out of ignorance or freak accidents is another matter.
They do exist elsewhere see them in Holland and parts of the A86 have them around Paris I believe the idea originated in Holland
Belgium & Germany also have large sections of Smart motorways. Have done for years already.
keepthefaith:
about smart motorways watch the program and make yer own minds up shocking death stastistics ban em
Nothing wrong with smart motorways other than plenty of drivers giving an example of why they’re unfit to hold a licence. It ain’t rocket science.
Funny how other countries manage to cope.
17 minutes to notice a problem, 17 further minutes before response arrives .
If only there was a device you could use to contact the Highways Agency to let them know you’d broken down. Oh wait there is and that doesn’t include the mobile phones which outnumber the amount of people in this country. And you don’t even need to know the HA number, just dial 999 which you can do as it’s a legit possible life and death emergency and they’ll gladly pass it on.
Swordsy:
When I saw the car my immediate thought was, why the hell was there not one single warning in the preceding 5 miles. Very lucky that that stretch has full streetlighting so it was visible, as it had no hazards on either.
Because the driver couldn’t be arsed to phone anyone.
Just watched the program this morning and take away the bias they have a point re the safe zones and the lack of radar to pick up stranded vehicles .
That aside the example they based these motorways on (M42) works which is why they introduced them .
Poor driving and reliance on a vehicles computer aids compound the problem also people’s ignorance of what a smart motorway is together with a me first attitude don’t help .
As plenty have said there are plenty of dual carriageways with no hard shoulder and limited lay-bys but they don’t have the same problem .
All of you visit sites with over the top health and safety because we are not allowed to use common sense anymore , are today’s roads becoming like that where drivers need everything done for them because they are not capable of thinking and observing for themselves.
Mazzer2:
They do exist elsewhere see them in Holland and parts of the A86 have them around Paris I believe the idea originated in Holland
Belgium & Germany also have large sections of Smart motorways. Have done for years already.
Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands also have a higher road accident fatality rates than the UK.
Also are they better managed, than ours?
We didn’t get the smart motorway design that was originally trailed, no doubt copying much from the European models, once it was given the go ahead we got a cheap version and less patrols to save money.
I was driving M8 westbound junction 4. Sign on motorway was telling me the city bypass A720 was closed at sherrifhall.
Homer simpson must be pushing the buttons for traffic scotland.
Hard shoulder should always stay. Out and up the banking. Only emergency services can use hard shoulder. Its a no brainer. If they need extra lanes for congestion make them but keep the hard shoulder.
Gillberry:
As plenty have said there are plenty of dual carriageways with no hard shoulder and limited lay-bys but they don’t have the same problem .
I am not sure I would 100% agree with that statement. The A55 North Wales “Expressway” being an example where a hardshoulder is desperately needed as not only can one single broken car, or every Friday in the summer a caravan’s break for freedom, cause miles of tailback until they are cleared but the danger is the same as a smart motorway. A friend of mine actually lost his life on there after having to stop because of a blow out and although the circumstances were not straightforward, there was a fair chance that a hard shoulder would have saved his life.
Gillberry:
As plenty have said there are plenty of dual carriageways with no hard shoulder and limited lay-bys but they don’t have the same problem .
I am not sure I would 100% agree with that statement. The A55 North Wales “Expressway” being an example where a hardshoulder is desperately needed as not only can one single broken car, or every Friday in the summer a caravan’s break for freedom, cause miles of tailback until they are cleared but the danger is the same as a smart motorway. A friend of mine actually lost his life on there after having to stop because of a blow out and although the circumstances were not straightforward, there was a fair chance that a hard shoulder would have saved his life.
It would be interesting to know how many fatalities per road so we can equate how dangerous smart motorways are in comparison.
Accidents happen whatever road (sorry for the loss of your friend) but on the program no one questioned driver attention they just criticised removal of the hard shoulder which although fair is not the whole problem .
Gillberry:
As plenty have said there are plenty of dual carriageways with no hard shoulder and limited lay-bys but they don’t have the same problem .
All of you visit sites with over the top health and safety because we are not allowed to use common sense anymore , are today’s roads becoming like that where drivers need everything done for them because they are not capable of thinking and observing for themselves.
It doesn’t take much of a google search to find reports of fatal collisions on dual carriageways where some has run into the back of a stranded vehicle, so there it’s not they immune, its just we’re used to it.
As for increasing health and safety, its the opposite, its not that they’re adding to the road network or replacing Dual Carriageways with smart motorways, they’re removing a safety feature from existing roads and replacing it with what seems at the moment an inadequate system of monitoring the them.
I haven’t found any statistics for collisions on smart motorways in particular, but did find some on the the UK motorway network as a whole, it take 21% of the UK traffic, but only accounts for 5% of the fatalities for all roads, so statistically far safer than other roads, including Dual Carriageways.
Gillberry:
As plenty have said there are plenty of dual carriageways with no hard shoulder and limited lay-bys but they don’t have the same problem .
I am not sure I would 100% agree with that statement. The A55 North Wales “Expressway” being an example where a hardshoulder is desperately needed as not only can one single broken car, or every Friday in the summer a caravan’s break for freedom, cause miles of tailback until they are cleared but the danger is the same as a smart motorway. A friend of mine actually lost his life on there after having to stop because of a blow out and although the circumstances were not straightforward, there was a fair chance that a hard shoulder would have saved his life.
It would be interesting to know how many fatalities per road so we can equate how dangerous smart motorways are in comparison.
Accidents happen whatever road (sorry for the loss of your friend) but on the program no one questioned driver attention they just criticised removal of the hard shoulder which although fair is not the whole problem .
A motorway is an artery. Most of the blood pumps through it at a constant speed to get to said destination. The brain (of which yours sounds quite small) and to the finger tips and toes. Now the smaller veins wel call them A roads carry less traffic. If you get a blockage on the artery/motorway your end up in hospital being hampered from moving. There is a procedure in hospital called a bypass. Think of this as the hard shoulder on a motorway.
Gillberry:
As plenty have said there are plenty of dual carriageways with no hard shoulder and limited lay-bys but they don’t have the same problem .
I am not sure I would 100% agree with that statement. The A55 North Wales “Expressway” being an example where a hardshoulder is desperately needed as not only can one single broken car, or every Friday in the summer a caravan’s break for freedom, cause miles of tailback until they are cleared but the danger is the same as a smart motorway. A friend of mine actually lost his life on there after having to stop because of a blow out and although the circumstances were not straightforward, there was a fair chance that a hard shoulder would have saved his life.
It would be interesting to know how many fatalities per road so we can equate how dangerous smart motorways are in comparison.
Accidents happen whatever road (sorry for the loss of your friend) but on the program no one questioned driver attention they just criticised removal of the hard shoulder which although fair is not the whole problem .
A motorway is an artery. Most of the blood pumps through it at a constant speed to get to said destination. The brain (of which yours sounds quite small) and to the finger tips and toes. Now the smaller veins wel call them A roads carry less traffic. If you get a blockage on the artery/motorway your end up in hospital being hampered from moving. There is a procedure in hospital called a bypass. Think of this as the hard shoulder on a motorway.
Thanks.
Yes but when the hard shoulder is removed to retain the ability to keep some movement you concentrate on your surroundings more so that you don’t bring things to a halt and end up in hospital or worse .
I don’t disagree with a hard shoulder and it’s use and I don’t disagree that these smart motorways are not without fault but I do rightly or wrongly think that if people did what they were supposed to when driving ie concentrate on the job in hand then a lot of the problems and unfortunate statistics would be avoided .
Those does not mean that it makes these roads safe as by rights no road is safe it just means from what I have observed in a society with more cars on the road than there used to be there seems to be a lot of drivers concentrating on the job in hand a lot less than they should be .
robroy:
Love the impartial programme title…"Britain’s Killer Motorways’’
Looks like the viewer’s minds have already been made up for them.
Maybe “Britains potentially more dangerous motorways” would have been more like it, and more accurate.
To be fair, the title did have a question mark at the end suggesting they weren’t sure of the accuracy of the statement.
robroy:
Love the impartial programme title…"Britain’s Killer Motorways’’
Looks like the viewer’s minds have already been made up for them.
Maybe “Britains potentially more dangerous motorways” would have been more like it, and more accurate.
To be fair, the title did have a question mark at the end suggesting they weren’t sure of the accuracy of the statement.
