http://trucknetuk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7387&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
This just had to happen, It amazes me that it doesnt happen more often. Some of those tankers heading back to the dartord tunnel, and then its like whacky races when the ■■■■■■ landrover turns off
Maybe somone will start to look at the tachos and speed limiters on them now
sympathies to the drivers family and friends 
accidents do happen malc and i know where your coming from with regards to the speed tanker drivers do,especially when carrying petrol or hazourdous material.why are they always in a hurry to get past you 
maybe tc can fill us in on that one with his tanker experiance.surely you need to take it alot easier on the pedal when transporting dangerous goods especially with the dangers it can cause.i know when i carry highly flammable goods i tend to ensure that it is well blocked in and i take the foot of the pedal to ensure safe transportation of the goods.if i get to the customer a few mins late then so be it,as long as i get there safe without causing danger to myself or any other road user. 
Sympathies to the young man’s family and all concerned.
I think these guys rush because when on the motorway they have to go full speed to make any money! dont know about Texaco but Hoyer s drivers get paid
for the mileage … if they are stuck in traffic they dont make any money. They need to be travelling around 60+ kmph to make there basic hourly rate.
sorry charles but that ain’t an excuse for them to break the law,we have lads with in dhl that are paid by the mile.getting stuck in traffic is part of the job mate and them rushing won’t get them through it any faster.9 out of 10 times if someone fly’s past you your almost guareented to catch him/her at the traffic jam and just give a smile and say to yourself that got you far.
good to see you have started to post welcome to trucknet
Forgive my ignorance of the subject but i always believed that driving for bonuses was outlawed many years ago…so if you have to make up your wages by the amount of miles you do then the law should clamp down hard on the bosses concerned for it is i believe illegal !!..i have noticed however that the tanker drivers of today certainly speed and i always thought that it would be a matter of time before a major accident occurred…luckily no major incident this time involving innocent parties…and my condolences at this time go to the family of the driver concerned…its all about profits i`m afraid…in the old days when fuel companies like esso…shell…bp…texaco employed drivers directly and the roads and drivers were safer…alas they decided to pay large redundancies to the original drivers and use agencies to replace them…with a bigger work load for far less wages…and this will not be the last death to be reported on this site…there is no reason for drivers to die whilst doing their daily work and the H&S should begin an inquiry into practices of any company having to work to a bonus related scheme.
have a nice day
Truckyboy is certainly right about this, when I started driving tankers over 25 years ago the fuel tanker drivers were employed by the fuel companies and were earning over 30k with shift allowances and working lieu days. When Shell and BP and even Esso flagged out their fleet the companies still had to pay oil trade rates which were set by the fuel companies.
My ex boss had the contract for Esso in Manchester and was paying over the top to keep drivers in those days. Eventually the contract was lost to Sadlers and he sold out to them. You will be lucky to get £6 an hour from the new company
With this being a tanker accident closing the motorway for 2 days and the pollution that will be caused a major investigation will take place. Lets hope that everything is in order.
Here in France tanker (hazardous) vehicles are limited to 80kph and are a pain in the bum to get past. Can’t see what difference 10k makes to safety, it’s the way you drive them that matters.
Salut, David.
Well guys i have heard of the accident but as yet don’t know what company the tanker is from, but i can tell that i drove for Q8 for many years and our trucks were restricted to 55 mph not 56.
My mate has driven fo Esso (Hoyer) for some 5-6 years and they are the same plus they get paid just like we did and shell and BP, salary!
We all know that some trucks ‘give’ a little on the restrictors but not that much.
As far as the panic for the ■■■■■■ and the tunnel, unfortunately that is how the tanker industry went, one of the many reasons why i left Q8, they get in, go as fast as they can, get the job done to get home as early as possible, ‘night’ drivers were coming into work as early as 4pm and if you wasn’t back for them to take over the truck they would moan like hell.
but in fairness we can all say we know drivers and companies just like it.
We do not know all the reasons for the accident, so before we condem
some one let us wait for the answers from the accident investigation
authorities. What was the weather like,dry,wet fog, rain, snow. All major
companies which deal with fuel, or other other dangerous goods
do preach to there drivers SAFTEY first. Yes there are bad firms
that carry dangerous goods,but there also resonsible and good
firms out there as well. We need to have in the EU a rethink
how the job of driving dangerous goods is carried out, I
am for more training on the job with an exam in different
aspects of the position of driving dangerous goods. The present
exam is not sufficent and should be longer and with more
on hand practise which should also be tested.
i agree they oftewn drive like idiots i said this to one once a few days after one was rolled on the kfc roundabout in thurrock and his reply was how highly trained they all are,and that tankers have a low centre of gravity so they can race about like idiots cutting other people up. I know that no ones purfect but tanker drivers have to be one of the worst.
I dont know about them boys’ but i know whenever im coming up from dover way all i get overtaken by is foreigners with their clog off and their left foot up on the dash and the odd mobile phone to their ear.Besides most of them have those stickers on the back with 60,80,90 and all i can presume is that you add them all together and hey thats what the limiter is set at…
Wooly:
Besides most of them have those stickers on the back with 60,80,90 and all i can presume is that you add them all together and hey thats what the limiter is set at…
Yes, 230k/hr! Funny how different nationalities always think this of others.
Here in France we have all accused the Irish, the Portuguese, the Spanish, and then they look at me and say, only half joking, but les Anglais - they are the worst of the lot. 
Everybody’s got a different point of view.
Salut, David.[/b]
A very sad loss to the family,my condolences.
<<<----Tanker yanker here. It all in my book at least comes down to the way you drive a tanker. If you aren’t careful they tip over extremely easy.
Here in the US I have a standard American spec tractor with “fat boy” super singles on both drive and tag axles, my trailer also has the fatties on, making it only a ten wheeler, they hug the road but its how the trailer is built, with the center of gravity so high.
Another thing in the US is the fact that a standard gas tanker, of which we still have many, has only the dual axles, with two tires on each side, making it eight tires on the trailer, set right at the very back of the trailer. This set up is very easy to put on the side.
Now when I was in the UK last month I looked at a couple of tankers, all of them being tri axle trailers and tri axle tractors and the trailer tires were set forward of the rear bulkhead giving overall much better stability.
Consequently, I would regard it as being pretty difficult to roll a UK tanker without extreme circumstances, such as speeding or taking a roundabout or bend way too quickly, also any very and extreme swerving would cause the liquid to slosh causing a almost certain rollover.
Its down to safe driving, all drivers hauling tankers for the first time should have to do a very rigorous driving standard test. Its the only way to keep yahoos out of the tanker business.
Stuart
<==== Ex-“Tanker Yanker” here… 
I can see your theory, Munchman, and it makes sense…but…there is one thing which causes more tanks to end up on their sides than anything else, and which is probably least widely understood, and that’s SLOW SPEED ROLLOVER!!! 
It’s not speed which causes the problem, it’s smoothness (or lack of it)…in the case of a motorway crash like this, an emegency overtaking manouever - for example if some prat slams his/her anchors on in front of you and you have to leap into the outer lane whilst braking to avoid hitting them, and then back in quick to avoid the guy you were forced to pull out on hitting you (we’ve all been there, can be a lifesaving move all round at times) - could well be the trigger…
I’m a lazy [zb] at heart, so I’ve dug up this post which I put up last time we had this discussion which explains Slow Speed Rollover reasonably well IMHO (although if someone can do better, feel free). 
Personally, I think a full understanding of it should probably be included as part of your training when you get your wagon licence (since it can happen to many vehicles with many types of freight)…and certainly be compulsary before getting in a tanker of any description, particularly one carrying HazChem. A tanker in the head will kill even the most solid of car drivers!!!
SLOW SPEED ROLLOVERS
I was taught about the dangers of slow-speed rollover when I first did tank work. Tankers, containers full of loose freight, and hanging meat wagons are, as ever, most susceptible…It’s difficult to explain but without using diagrams, but I’ll give it a shot…
It’s most likely to happen on either roundabouts or a series of s-bends…I’ll take roundabouts for this example, and use a tanker as our hypothetical vehicle, for ease of explanation.
Think about where the liquid in a tanker goes as it takes a roundabout, a step at a time…
- Tank driving straight. Load is fairly stable, err-ing towards the back of the tank due to a combination of inertia (of the load) and forward movement (or the lorry).
- Tank brakes as it approaches roundabout. Inertia means that the load continues to move forward, ending up at the front of the tank.
- Tank accelerates onto the roundabout whilst steering left The load heads for the back of the tank again, this time into the right hand corner.
- Tank steers right around roundabout Load stays at the back of the tank, but goes into the left-hand corner.
- Tank steers left to exit roundabout The load goes back to the rear right-hand corner again.
- Tank straightens out after leaving roundabout The load settles centrally at the back of the tank, and all is well.
That, of course, is the ideal. Notice that apart from when he first approached the roundabout, our driver didn’t brake.
If he had dabbed his brakes a tiny tad too hard…well, let’s take the point where he has finished steering left (onto the island) and has started to steer right again…
If he braked just at the wrong moment, instead of just going from one side to the other of the back of the tank, the load will go diagonally across the tank…so it goes right to left (because of the change of direction) and back to front (because of the braking)…finishing up in the front left hand corner of the tank…
It is this diagonal serge into the “shoulder” of the vehicle which can make it flop, even at very low speeds…I kid you not, a fitter from the firm I was on when this was explained to me took a loaded tank out of the yard and put it on it’s side at less than 20mph as a result of this one…no-one’s fault, just lack of knowledge on his part and unfortunate timing with the brakes!
How to avoid it? Take all roundabouts slowly, and above all, smoothly if you are pulling a trailer which contains any type of “loose” freight - or a rigid of the same ilk, for that matter…and try and spot the cars cutting 'round which might make you brake early enough to do it gently.
Hope that makes some sort of sense…
Lucy:
for example if some prat slams his/her anchors on in front of you and you have to leap into the outer lane whilst braking to avoid hitting them,
If they stayed back and didnt drive up peoples arses they wouldnt have to!!!.
Last night i had to do container work 2 trips to Immingham and i for one value my licence so i will quite happily sit at 40 mph on the A15 and i had 2 of them sat right up my arse on the way up, personally i think the guys were ■■■■■■■ idiots consdering they were empty on their way back up.
If someone chooses to obey the law then so ne it you dont get their any faster by sitting on their bumoer all the way do you■■?..
If they stayed back and didnt drive up peoples arses they wouldnt have to!!!.
Very true, mate, very true…but sadly it happens all too often on the motorway that an idiot in a car will suddenly realise (usually mid-phone conversation or lip-stick application) that he/she’s about to miss their junction and must leap into the lane with the lorry in with no warning whatsoever, braking hard whilst doing it…or Mr/Mrs Nervous will spot brake-lights 2 miles ahead and decide an emergency stop is the only way to react…or the kids will finally get to the point where they need a slap to get them under control, and the driver will inadvertantly put their foot on the wrong pedal whilst administering it…or whatever… 
some years ago whilst driving a partly loaded sewage tanker between collections, I was stopped by a copper on school crossing duty.
To say he failed to give me sufficient room to stop would be an understatement, I missed him by less than 6 inches, (150 mm) & then moved a bit closer whilst the load moved about.
Having expressed my opinion on his behaviour & competency to see children safely across a road, he advised that I should strap my load down properly in future & then it wouldn’t move & then I would be able to stop properly, (But to be fair to him he was a strange shade of white at the time.)
But it was then that I realised the obvious & he was right, if all of these lazy zb’s who drive tankers just got up off their lazy zb.s & took the time to strap their loads down, none of these accidents would occur when when some dipstick does something stupid in front of them.
Before I write about the tanker incident , I would like to
say , I have held my driveing licence for heavygoods for over 35years
and have transported ADR/GGVS (dangerous goods) also for this
length of time. I have also had my share of incidents during
the transportation of above mentioned. No amount of training and
experence will stop accidents from happening, You can only
drive every day as if YOU are the only safe driver and
all other users on the ROAD are NOT: I try to drive as safe
and as fast or slow in all traffic situations.
We need to ensure that all those who have to drive the
hazerdous goods, receive the best training that we have to
offer, Also more on the job training with something like a
city-guilds exam.