Browsing the newsfeed on my phone today, noticed a question being asked of some money matters type site.
thisismoney.co.uk/money/exp … onths.html
There is so much wrong with this i don’t know where to start.
My take would be that this company is in financial difficulties and that your employment could quite easily end suddenly and possibly failry soon when they go into administration. Therefore it is time to look for another job.
God knows why he wants to. Stay.
But if he does I’d make sure I kept a diary did a print out every day. And keep it. As I’ll bet in 6 months time his overtime hours will be wrong
edd1974:
God knows why he wants to. Stay.
But if he does I’d make sure I kept a diary did a print out every day. And keep it. As I’ll bet in 6 months time his overtime hours will be wrong
Yeag I bet they’ll square it up in another six months time 
I wonder if the enquirer has misunderstood something about his pay arrangements, and that what he actually has is a salaried position where there are no routine overtime payments (other than for e.g. Bank Holidays or extra shifts), with his hours being “normalised” over a six month period. We had something similar when Drop it Hide it, Lose it were in charge at our place. I know some here will throw their hands up at the prospect of being “exploited” by the nasty employer, but I’ll be honest that in the 12 years I’ve been driving for the same firm (albeit under three different employers who have run the transport contract for them) my weekly hours have almost never (as in maybe once or twice in 12 years) exceeded what I am contracted to work and indeed have usually been several hours a week lower than the contracted 45.
There could be an angle into building up outstanding overtime along with rolled up holiday pay “to then be taken all at once in the same month”…
Problem is, like the way some firms have side-stepped paying furlough money out to qualifying staff - there will be a number of firms who use the “Let’s defer wages” - meaning in fact that they expect to be going under during the interim, and if that happens - the firm in question is going to put “unpaid wages” at the back of the queue with regards to “Company Creditors”…
Years ago, when I applied for a mortgage - I had recently asked for a big bank of rolled-up holiday along with an imminent tax rebate that was due to be paid via my wages “to all be paid at the end of April” if memory serves… The mortgage lender only wanted to count NET takehome pay on my payslips for one month (was paid weekly back then, and that April was a five week month…) but MINUS anything marked as “Overtime” on those same payslips…
So in the last week of March, I went on a one-month overtime self-ban, applied for a tax rebate to be paid through my wages, and my rolled up holiday to be paid all at once across the 5 pay weeks of April, the start of a new tax year and all.
12 times this figure, multiplied by 3.5x earnings - then presented me with a mortgage offer that meant I could buy a decent 3 bedroomed semi rather than a 2-up-2-down with outside loo which is all I would have been able to pitch for otherwise.
Winseer:
there will be a number of firms who use the “Let’s defer wages” - meaning in fact that they expect to be going under during the interim, and if that happens - the firm in question is going to put “unpaid wages” at the back of the queue with regards to “Company Creditors”…:
Except of course they can’t do that. The 1986 Insolvency Act classes those owed wages and accrued holiday pay as “Preferred Creditors” and these must be paid IN FULL before the other creditors (including HMRC) get their share of any scraps. Only secured creditors (ie those who have a legal charge on specific assets) come further up the pecking order.
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Yes the salaried angle might be at the bottom of this, but the chap not having a contract of employment, or having the salary system used there properly explained, gives me the sneaky feeling he’s going to get shafted.
I’m salaried too, but don’t get to my agreed hours over the period, any extra shifts are overtime paid with the next monthly salary, the unworked salaried hours do not have to be made up, yet, never heard of overtime as such being paid at 6 monthly intervals, and i’d be concerned that it could be used as an extended period to the employers benefit, ie to get free overtime hours worked during heavy seasonal times by cutting the basic hours back during quiet periods so our hapless chap ends up averaging his basic hours only over the 6 months thereby losing all his earned OT…an extended version of the now common trend of OT not being paid daily but after so many weekly or monthy hours.
Agreed if the company goes bust he becomes a preferred creditor, i had similar when an agency went broke still owing me holiday pay (they were supposed to be sorting it out, all ■■■■■■■■ by shysters), i contacted the Receiver who immediately confirmed i was a priority creditor having earned wages/holiday pay owing, and sure enough the money turned up in due course…incidentally the Receiver took my word for the owed holiday pay, whether he could check this on the agency records i do not know, i told the truth and they honoured.
Of course if the employer did a runner and there was sod all, well you can’t get blood from a stone as they say.
However the system works in the case linked here, its not something i’d be interested in, the current pay figures mentioned for this new night driver working long hours don’t make good reading, with vague promises of something unknown at the end of 6 months is rubbish.
Roymondo:
Winseer:
there will be a number of firms who use the “Let’s defer wages” - meaning in fact that they expect to be going under during the interim, and if that happens - the firm in question is going to put “unpaid wages” at the back of the queue with regards to “Company Creditors”…:
Except of course they can’t do that. The 1986 Insolvency Act classes those owed wages and accrued holiday pay as “Preferred Creditors” and these must be paid IN FULL before the other creditors (including HMRC) get their share of any scraps. Only secured creditors (ie those who have a legal charge on specific assets) come further up the pecking order.
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How many times have we heard since 1986 about cases where the firm pays off it’s top brass in the manner described here, but not the lower staff, then does a runner?
HMRC, Lower Workers, and of course any suppliers with oustanding invoices - all go short together that way…
Winseer:
Roymondo:
Winseer:
there will be a number of firms who use the “Let’s defer wages” - meaning in fact that they expect to be going under during the interim, and if that happens - the firm in question is going to put “unpaid wages” at the back of the queue with regards to “Company Creditors”…:
Except of course they can’t do that. The 1986 Insolvency Act classes those owed wages and accrued holiday pay as “Preferred Creditors” and these must be paid IN FULL before the other creditors (including HMRC) get their share of any scraps. Only secured creditors (ie those who have a legal charge on specific assets) come further up the pecking order.
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
How many times have we heard since 1986 about cases where the firm pays off it’s top brass in the manner described here, but not the lower staff, then does a runner?
HMRC, Lower Workers, and of course any suppliers with oustanding invoices - all go short together that way…
No idea, but I’m sure if it’s as common a practice as you say, you’ll have no problem finding a few examples…
Juddian:
Yes the salaried angle might be at the bottom of this, but the chap not having a contract of employment, or having the salary system used there properly explained, gives me the sneaky feeling he’s going to get shafted.
I’m salaried too, but don’t get to my agreed hours over the period, any extra shifts are overtime paid with the next monthly salary, the unworked salaried hours do not have to be made up, yet, never heard of overtime as such being paid at 6 monthly intervals, and i’d be concerned that it could be used as an extended period to the employers benefit, ie to get free overtime hours worked during heavy seasonal times by cutting the basic hours back during quiet periods so our hapless chap ends up averaging his basic hours only over the 6 months thereby losing all his earned OT.…an extended version of the now common trend of OT not being paid daily but after so many weekly or monthy hours.Agreed if the company goes bust he becomes a preferred creditor, i had similar when an agency went broke still owing me holiday pay (they were supposed to be sorting it out, all ■■■■■■■■ by shysters), i contacted the Receiver who immediately confirmed i was a priority creditor having earned wages/holiday pay owing, and sure enough the money turned up in due course…incidentally the Receiver took my word for the owed holiday pay, whether he could check this on the agency records i do not know, i told the truth and they honoured.
Of course if the employer did a runner and there was sod all, well you can’t get blood from a stone as they say.
However the system works in the case linked here, its not something i’d be interested in, the current pay figures mentioned for this new night driver working long hours don’t make good reading, with vague promises of something unknown at the end of 6 months is rubbish.
ALDI do that… although on a monthly basis. You do say an extra shift (10 hours) at the beginning of the month, then they’ll give you a few short days later, and you’re accrued hours for the month wont go over the minimum, and hey presto, you’ve worked and extra day for gratis.
I left within a week. 
“A few short days” over an entire month, might be being let go @ say 19:48hrs, being paid (so you thought) until 20:00, but at the end of the month, those 22 shifts with an extra quarter of an hour latched onto them - got docked off your 10 hours pay, with “extended breaks and POA” aggregate neatly side-stepping the remainder…
“Houly Rate” and “Defined Shifts” - would still be the best way to go then.