Hello all,
Need some advice please my rota looks like this
Starting with monday
Week1
IN … IN … IN … IN… IN … RD …RD
Week2
IN … IN … IN … IN… RD … RD …IN
Week3
IN … IN … RD … IN… IN … IN …RD
when could I expect to do overtime to stay legal with rest periods
Many thanks
Week 1 either rest day the first time you do it.
But not after week 3 reduced rest. So on a long term basis I would say never, but someone might be a bit more nuanced.
Maybe you could every week 2?
Thanks stu
It’s a rolling rota so there would be occasions like after holiday when I do it for the first time … thanks for answer I was suspecting the same
I’m probably not the best to answer [emoji2] hopefully someone else will
I just can’t see how you get passed
“an unbroken rest period of 45 hours every week - you can reduce this to 24 hours every other week”
Yeah yeah I’m confused about that as well although guys at the office were bit baffled when i said I don’t think I can do overtime on their rota lol
In any two fixed weeks you’ve two days of continuous unbroken rest so the rota is legal…
Week 1 and 2 you’ve 2 consecutive days (in week 1). Week 2 and 3 you’ve two consecutive days (in week 2), in Week 3 and 1 you’ve two consecutive days (in Week 1).
But there’s absolutely no room to put in an extra day and still meet the 45hrs rule in any two fixed weeks. The only possibility of that happening would depend entirely on your start and finish times around the rest days in Week 3. If you could get 45hrs off if for example you finish at 3pm or later on a Tuesday then start Thursday afternoon then it’s possible but it wouldn’t take much to knacker that up as you’d need to find room elsewhere to compensate for any extra days you did in Week 1 and 2…
Can the office not change your rota if you express how keen you are to do overtime?
mmeessii:
Hello all,Need some advice please my rota looks like this
Starting with mondayWeek1
IN … IN … IN … IN… IN … RD …RDWeek2
IN … IN … IN … IN… RD … RD …INWeek3
IN … IN … RD … IN… IN … IN …RDwhen could I expect to do overtime to stay legal with rest periods
Many thanks
I’d of thought if your working 11/12/13/14/15 hr days your doing o/t , most drivers are on 45/50 hrs guaranteed, so 9/10 hrs a day , so surely anything over that is o/t , so you can work o/t every day , unless you / boss deem a 15 hr shift as a normal day
I work sun-thurs & was asked for o/t , I just said I’m doing 15 hrs a week already ( puzzled looks from t/o ) , I’m guaranteed 45 , doing 60 hrs pw , so that’s 15 hrs o/t in my book , I left them to mull it over !
If you’ve just had a 45 hour weekly rest, you can then do six shifts in a row before taking another weekly rest.
Although you can reduce weekly rest to 25 hours once a fortnight, you would do better for inserting extra overtime shifts IF you took a full 45 hour weekly rest every week.
If you have gaps in those next six shifts, you can insert “overtime” into one of those gaps…
No more than 3 of those six shifts in a row can be longer than 13 hours. “Reduced Daily Rest”.
It is unwise to use all 3 of your “reduced rest” slots up, and then not leave an “emergency” one for your last shift of the block, if needed (in case you get stuck on a friday night, for example, planned 12 hours, actually booked off after 14 hours when you’ve already used up early in the week…)
My humble suggestion is that it is better to do fewer, longer shifts than more shorter ones - especially if “Overtime Hours” are paid at single-time rate…
^^^ might I respectfully suggest a module on tachograph regulations for your next DCPC? If you are going to advise someone on legalities the ramifications of incorrect advice can be potentially expensive.
Where do you get 6 shifts from? Where do you get 25 hours from?
A single day off during the week (and then another at the weekend) is about as helpful as a ■■■■ in a space suit if you are wanting an extra day somewhere.
the maoster:
^^^ might I respectfully suggest a module on tachograph regulations for your next DCPC? If you are going to advise someone on legalities the ramifications of incorrect advice can be potentially expensive.Where do you get 6 shifts from? Where do you get 25 hours from?
You may reduce a weekly rest from 45 hours to 25 hours but the third week you must then take a full weekly rest.
There’s plenty of people who are working six shifts, take a full 45 weekly rest, and then start another six shift block staggered by one day per week, gradually rotating over all days…
The 5-6-5-6 pattern - is also well known.
5x12 hour shifts in week one, and 6x10 hour shifts in week two. You take a 45 hour weekly rest at the end of week one, and can reduce to the 25 hours weekly rest at the end of week two.
“Reduced daily rest” kicks in once you’ve done 13hrs 1 minute in a single shift.Sensible people make sure they rigidly book off as often as they can BY 13 hours into a shift, so they don’t keep dipping into those 3 reduced rests permitted. They are to facilitate full rest blocks of time between shifts NOT a warrant to “insert overtime at every opportunity, because your hourly rate is too low to get by otherwise” which seems more common the further north you go in this country…
Outfits like Royal Mail would limit everyone’s hours to 48 per week average over a 26 week reference period, which is an overkill of the regulations. How do you think people get 60 hour and even 84 hour weeks in, perfectly legally at many other yards… I think the “10 hour shift maximum on nights” still applies as well, although I stand to be corrected (rather than just called ‘wrong’ without the correct answer from the critic being provided…)
Don’t forget also, that the time you clock in is the time your hours start, NOT the time you insert your card.
Time spent on break/POA is still time spent at work, as you are not free to dispose of your time as you wish.
A 12 hour shift therefore - should be inclusive of paid breaks, and not be like outfits like RM who would have you working a 13.5 hour shift with 90 minutes deducted for unpaid break, meaning you get paid for 12 hours, but you’ve also used up one of your reduced rests that week… What a con!
The only mention of 25 hours is by you, certainly not the statute books.
I’ll give you a clue Winseer; you’re not a million miles away with your 25 hours, but therin lies the problem; when talking about legalities we deal with absolutes, not near enoughs.
Winseer:
You may reduce a weekly rest from 45 hours to 25 hours but the third week you must then take a full weekly rest.
Those were “mostly” the old rules. First of all lets get the fact it’s 24hrs minimum you can take, not 25. Secondly for some time now you’ve had to have at least one 45hr weekly rest per fixed fortnight so you can’t just have one 24hr rest in say week 1 and week 2 then a full 45 in week 3. It is now at the very least one 24 and one 45. It can be fudged slightly depending on when your 45 off is such as the example below:
But if your days off typically fall on a weekend you’re unlikely to be able to do that often and the chances of a driver getting it wrong are quite high.
Some rough start/finish times may help give a better answer. For instance week three theres two single rest days which suggest reduced rests but depending in start/finish times they could easily be full weekly rests (say finish 5pm Wednesday, start 2pm Friday is a full 45hr rest)
P.S ignore Winseer.
I’ve re-checked the gov website, and indeed it has been changed from 25 to 24 hours at some point since I last did my DCPC in 2018.
Thing is, erring in the direction I have - doesn’t do any harm, whereas people that now push for back-to-back hours with minimum everything - are now going to come to grief from issues such as “being stuck in traffic on the way home at the end of a long week” - at which point they are perfectly legal to fall asleep in their own car, undercut a parked artic, and end up dead - “Not on firm’s time” - so no one gives a ■■■■.
My taking a 25 minimum weekly rest - isn’t against the law, neither of course.
Thus, my errant “advice” as you’d have it - didn’t do any harm although if it makes just a 1% difference to commercial drivers who drive tired on a regular basis “taking 25 rather than 24 minimum weekly rest” - it would save 8 lives out of the 800 drivers who die in road accidents each and every year - right?
It is better to err on the side of caution then, than on the side of caustic where rigid application of the law merely leads one to an early grave the moment something external gets added into the algorhythm. This is often the case in people’s lives that are not the 1% elites of this world who think everything is perfect, stays perfect and can be kept perfect by lying to the other 99%…
Best I continue keeping out of sight of those who’d hold this against me, methinks…
Winseer:
I’ve re-checked the gov website, and indeed it has been changed from 25 to 24 hours at some point since I last did my DCPC in 2018.
I’ve been driving 28 years and it’s been 24hrs for as long as I can remember.
Conor:
Winseer:
I’ve re-checked the gov website, and indeed it has been changed from 25 to 24 hours at some point since I last did my DCPC in 2018.I’ve been driving 28 years and it’s been 24hrs for as long as I can remember.
Same. Not 28 years, 21, but yeah as far back as I remember it’s been 24hrs
Winseer:
I’ve re-checked the gov website, and indeed it has been changed from 25 to 24 hours at some point since I last did my DCPC in 2018.Thing is, erring in the direction I have - doesn’t do any harm, whereas people that now push for back-to-back hours with minimum everything - are now going to come to grief from issues such as “being stuck in traffic on the way home at the end of a long week” - at which point they are perfectly legal to fall asleep in their own car, undercut a parked artic, and end up dead - “Not on firm’s time” - so no one gives a ■■■■.
My taking a 25 minimum weekly rest - isn’t against the law, neither of course.
Thus, my errant “advice” as you’d have it - didn’t do any harm although if it makes just a 1% difference to commercial drivers who drive tired on a regular basis “taking 25 rather than 24 minimum weekly rest” - it would save 8 lives out of the 800 drivers who die in road accidents each and every year - right?It is better to err on the side of caution then, than on the side of caustic where rigid application of the law merely leads one to an early grave the moment something external gets added into the algorhythm.
■■■■■■■■! Best practice is not legal advice. You misquoted legal advice, it’s akin to saying that in a 30mph limit you must not exceed 20mph, it may very well be prudent to do 20 but it has no basis in law.
My point was that you weren’t merely offering an opinion, you were stating the law incorrectly and that’s the sort of thing that gets people in trouble.
As for saving 8 lives a year that’s merely yet a n other arbitrary figure you’ve plucked from your mind in an attempt to justify everything else you got wrong.