Overall With of Vehicles

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Hello all I drive 7.5 tonnes goods vehicles for Royal Mail. At the moment we have an issue in my depot regarding what is the “Actual overall with of a vehicle”.

Recently we have had an influx of new DAF’s to out fleet. Which are to be a bit wider than our old ones. As per usual in our line of work wing mirrors get broken once in a while. This has never been an issue until now, but as the cost of each mirror has shot up they are now trying to clamp down on us drivers. In response to this one of my colleagues has written a report to the managers (see below).

I would like to know what the wider HGV driving community’s opinion on this matter is.

Broken Wing Mirrors

The vehicles we use are getting wide, but the delivery office entrances are not being changed to accommodate this.

In some delivery offices mirrors have to be pulled in to gain access. This is not safe practice.

On some of the country roads we use to reach various offices it is impossible to keep our vehicles on the same side of the white lines. Even when stationary our wing mirrors are often hit by other vehicles , or poles/trees/bushes on the kerb side whilst driving.

The wing mirrors on wide bodied vehicles are the same size as those fitted to narrower vehicles, this is not necessary and leads to breakages.

Who measures and put the details into the vehicles?

Following sampling of eight vehicles at Tonbridge we have found extreme errors between what is stated in the drivers cab as being the overall with and what the actual with is.

Overall with is the full width mirror to mirror. The information inside shows body with only.

Our survey shows the differences in with just in our small sampling exercise.

Our driving has not suddenly become bad, the equipment information is not presented properly and that causes accidents.

As a business we should look at the entrances to the following delivery offices and provide a safe means of entrance for our drivers and our vehicles.

HEATHFIELD - Very narrow entrance, only accessible from one direction - very narrow down the side of the building and tight to turn round.

ST LEONARDS - Narrow and long drive alongside the building made worse by bad parking of cars.

CROWBROUGH - Very tight entrance and exit, also parking inside yard causes problems. One way system ignored by delivery personnel.

EDENBRIDGE - Entrance often difficult because of vehicles parked in the way. Poor parking of vans and cars in the yard.

Now that we have identified the problems. “ Entrances and roads to narrow for our very wide vehicles” with the wrong information in them. Why cant we get the manufacture to make the arms for the mirrors smaller. And try to organise our delivery offices to take the vehicles safely to the unloading point.

MAKE OVERALL WIDTH ACTUAL WITH WIDER BY + / -
SHOWEN INSIDE WING MIRROR TO
CAB WING MIRROR
DAF 7’ 7” / 2.30 M 9’ 2” / 2.80M + 1’ 7” / 0.50M
DAF 7’ 7” / 2.30 M 9’ 4.5” / 2.86M + 1’ 9.5” / 0.53M
IVECO 7’ 3” / 2.22M 8’ 4” / 2.54M + 1’ 1” / 0.32M
DAF 7’ 5” / 2.26M 9’ 0” / 2.76M + 1’ 7” / 0.50M
DAF 7’ 3.5” / 2.20M 8’ 8” / 2.64M + 1’ 4.5” / 0.44M
DAF 7’ 5” / 2.26M 9’ 2” / 2.80M + 1’ 9” / 0.54M
DAF 8’ 2” / 2.50M 9’ 2” / 2.80M + 1’ 0” / 0.30M
IVECO 7’ 3.5” / 2.22M 8’ 4” / 2.54M + 1’ 0.5” / 0.32M

Entrance into Heathfield 9’ 2” / 2.79M wide.
Entrance into Crowborough 9’3” / 2.82M wide.

“Overall” from Oxford Dictionary = Taking all aspects into account.

Even though I can not get this table to turn out right I hope you all can understand the gist of what my colleague is trying to highlight to the management and the union.

2

highlight to the manager that these things happen. ask any driver in any part of the country. as per usual, the manager cant see past the paper on his desk :unamused:

3

As an agency driver i drive many vehicles of different height , width and length. I can only say, that you have to drive taking the size of your vehicle into consideration; when encountering the differing situations that you come across during the day. Observation and planning. I would suggest that you do as i do. If you can’t get in somewhere because of badly parked cars, get them moved. If i am not sure about a place i park; get out and walk down to have a look. As for narrow roads keep your speed down, be vigilant about oncoming traffic and be prepared to stop if necessary. Just the same as you would if you were in your car. Hope this doesn’t sound to ‘teacherish’.

4

tortoise:
I can only say, that you have to drive taking the size of your vehicle into consideration; when encountering the differing situations that you come across during the day. Observation and planning. I would suggest that you do as i do. If you can’t get in somewhere because of badly parked cars, get them moved. If i am not sure about a place i park; get out and walk down to have a look. As for narrow roads keep your speed down, be vigilant about oncoming traffic and be prepared to stop if necessary

I can see both sides to this, while I agree with the above, some situations ie the narrow entrances where you have to pull in mirrors are unacceptable and should be addressed.

5

Yes i agree with mrpj. Trouble is a lot of places are not brand new upto date warehouses. Especially in London. They are old building that have been in use since horse and cart. And it would not be financially viable to carry out major alterations. Do i sound like a gaffer. Sorry. But you know what i mean. Security could keep the entrances and exits to these places clear of cars so its easier to get in and out.

6

tell the drivers to slow down manily on the narrow b roads when they hit other wagons mirrors or lamp posts on them lanes it comes down to poor driving bad jugement and goin to fast

7

I WOULD LOVE A SCANIA:
tell the drivers to slow down manily on the narrow b roads when they hit other wagons mirrors or lamp posts on them lanes it comes down to poor driving bad jugement and goin to fast

yeah well done for that comment all the brokemirrors might have something to do with the stupid break neck speeds the post office vehicles do it just makes me wonder what they get broken on…

8

Yaldingweir:
Our driving has not suddenly become bad, the equipment information is not presented properly and that causes accidents.

No, in fact it’s not suddenly become bad, it always HAS been that bad.

Seriously something wrong with the drivers. As an agency driver on Class 1, I can have 3 different trailer lengths from 30ft to 44ft in a single day and five or more different widths, heights and mirror types and turning circles in a single week. Strangely, I’ve never clobbered a mirror. Maybe that’s because I don’t rush around like a moronic loon with my pants on fire. Perhaps some of the RM drivers should try driving within a reasonable limit for the road they’re on sometime. I know for a fact that the RM 7.5 tonner drivers going between York and Driffield down a windy secondary A road do 70MPH, overtaking all and sundry. I hate to think what the stuff they’re carrying ends up like.

In short, they’ve only themselves to blame.

9

Weve got it at my place. There is a site that is really tight acces and the only wagon that thets in there is a 6 wheeler with the rear lift. This wagon was on hire and our company decided it was costing to much so they got rid of it. They got one of their own wagons from down south which happened to be a wag & drag. It is a handy bit of kit being able to go to artic sites and collect 25 cube. But it is a double drive so it is near impossile to get in this site. It can be done and all the driver wants is a letter saying they know the risk of taking it in there and do not hold the driver responcible if the truck gets damamged. Of course they wont do that so the driver wont go in and they are having to pay a contractor emmergency rate to do the job. Its costing them more than keeping the old truck :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :wink:

10

got to agree with conor and IWLAS

11

Our driving has not suddenly become bad, the equipment information is not presented properly and that causes accidents.

the most lame excuse I have ever heard.

12

Standard width of an articulated trailer is 2.55M.

13

Are they DAF LF45 or 55s?

Cos the mirrors do stick out on them. The fella who drove mine before I did, broke the nearside mirror twice and I had trouble when I started driving it. The older style DAF 55 we’ve got has got mirrors that stick out a lot less even though it’s a bigger lorry (18 as oppossed to 14 tonnes).

Personally I’ve got used to the mirrors and I enjoy the visability their size and position brings.

14

First of all I do recognise that the state of some of my colleges driving leaves allot to be desired to say the least thought the company.

In response to Andyroo they are DAF 45’s, these vehicles are of 03 registration and newer.

I have read all the above comments and I do take on what you all say regarding how a driver should take extra care when behind the wheel especially when access is restricted. Although saying that the fact remains that we are being given incorrect information in the cab regarding the OVERALL width of our vehicles and that some of our deliver offices are out of date with regards to access.

After discussing this matter in passing with a union rep it seems that the college who submitted this report has stirred up a real hornets nest.

I know I should have mentioned this in my original posting but this has only come about recently as for every wing mirror that is broken by us drivers the powers that be want us to fill out a accident report and as a result we will be found blame worthy.

After you have incurred three blame worthy accidents on your record in a period of a few years you will be up for a driving ban. Allot of my fellow drivers are unhappy about this because as far as we are aware the cost of a wing mirror is in the region of £90. Is this cost really worth the hassle of upsetting good loyal staff and the whole rig moral of taking the staff down a disciplinary procedure ?

15

i can see where your coming from yalding weir
hazards of the job i am afraid
there are good drivers and bad drivers

16

Yaldingweir:
After you have incurred three blame worthy accidents on your record in a period of a few years you will be up for a driving ban. Allot of my fellow drivers are unhappy about this…

They perhaps shouldn’t be, as professional drivers surely can’t go around having accidents with impunity?

17

Have they considered striker plates?

Royal Mail with their huge fleet are paying more for their DAF mirrors than my firm are with their grand total of five DAFs. :laughing:

18

The powers that be will never take the blame. When I worked for ParcelForce they started replacing the clutch’s on our daf 85’s at about 500k, then the repacement ones were only lasting less then half that time, the drivers got the blame and they even got a driver asessor in from Eaton, he found nothing wrong with our driving. It turned out they were replacing them with pattern parts, but they still took money off of our bonuses as they said it was driver abuse!!! Moral of that story is don’t bother trusting the CWU, all they do is take the money but do arse all else.

(unlike the murphy’s, I am bitter)

19

In answer to mrpj myself and my colleges at my yard do not expect to keep having blame worthy accidents with out any form of discipline taken against us. Although saying that on this particular issue of wing mirrors getting damaged then some common sense must prevail. If some of these managers got away from there desks and spent a bit of time out on the road driving to the delivery offices we have to go to they might see what we are trying to say.

Andyroo:
Have they considered striker plates?

With regards the issue surrounding striker plates. This idea has been suggested by my fellow drivers to our fleet manager. As far as I am aware this like other suggestions this has fallen on def ears.

20

I don’t always agree with the way Conor puts his case, but he’s right.
As a professional driver you should be able to drive all vehicles you’re qualified to drive. Otherwise you are not qualified to drive them - and shouldn’t be.
A professional driver should take the time to familiarise himself with a different vehicle and operate it accordingly. If he isn’t being allowed time because of rush-rush, that’s a different matter.

On the other hand you might have a case if you have to pull mirrors in, they are part of the vehicle and if they don’t fit, the premises aren’t suitable, a management failure there.

Having said that, I come back to professionally coping with your vehicle. In the old days of the Schiaffino Ferries out of Dover we had to reverse our artics on or off the ferry with mirrors pulled in due to the lack of space and tightness of the packing. I never whacked anything.

Time for a bit of re-training , I think. That’s the modern way isn’t it? :laughing:

Salut, David.