Btw some have no payload capacity at all ,look on Twitter at all the ones that the feds tug and weigh 
We doing all wrong .
biggriffin:
Mmm. Now who do I use a consultant, for my new light haulage business venture, do I use CF+C consultant know bugger .all,and associates. Or the D.Punchard esq, purveyors of sound knowledge, and experience.
You do know that I told the OP to use a 7.5 tonner, you know around 3t unladen, just like Danās van with the difference that it will also have a lot more payload potential than the van.
Punchy Dan:
Btw some have no payload capacity at all ,look on Twitter at all the ones that the feds tug and weigh
So tell us the figures.Which is better than a similarly 3t unladen 7.5 tonner that I told him to use for the job how.
Wot , no tassled pelmet or light barsā¦ā ā ?
Carryfast:
biggriffin:
Mmm. Now who do I use a consultant, for my new light haulage business venture, do I use CF+C consultant know bugger .all,and associates. Or the D.Punchard esq, purveyors of sound knowledge, and experience.You do know that I told the OP to use a 7.5 tonner, you know around 3t unladen, just like Danās van with the difference that it will also have a lot more payload potential than the van.
The only 7.5 tonners on the market that tare in at 3 tonnes are utter crap .
We offer 9 metres of bed length on our pick up & trailer .
The other hauliers who I work with are no longer buying 7.5 tonners due to the high tare of euro 6 models and are moving on to 12 tonne gross .
The euro 6 7.5 tonners crane equipt like are carrying 2 to 2.5 tonnes .id say we carry more .
the nodding donkey:
Wot , no tassled pelmet or light barsā¦ā ā ?
We like additives but not like that 
Punchy Dan:
Carryfast:
biggriffin:
Mmm. Now who do I use a consultant, for my new light haulage business venture, do I use CF+C consultant know bugger .all,and associates. Or the D.Punchard esq, purveyors of sound knowledge, and experience.You do know that I told the OP to use a 7.5 tonner, you know around 3t unladen, just like Danās van with the difference that it will also have a lot more payload potential than the van.
The only 7.5 tonners on the market that tare in at 3 tonnes are utter crap .
We offer 9 metres of bed length on our pick up & trailer .
The other hauliers who I work with are no longer buying 7.5 tonners due to the high tare of euro 6 models and are moving on to 12 tonne gross .
The euro 6 7.5 tonners crane equipt like are carrying 2 to 2.5 tonnes .id say we carry more .
How does that van based flat bed possibly ācarry moreā than a 7.5 tonner.
With the win win that the 7.5 tonner isnāt going be bothered by a 3.5 t trailer put on the back of it either way especially when itās loaded.
As for 12 tonner might as well go for 18.
So letās get this right the point was comparing a < 2,040 tare ādual purposeā heap of junk car type pick up v a 7.5 tonner, to pull a 3.5 t trailer, all to avoid the need for an O licence.
You came back with the apples v oranges comparison of an around 3t tare flat bed van , if you can believe it, 
to say that Iām talking bollox and also canāt drive into the bargain. 
How ācrapā can the 7.5 tonner possibly be compared to your heavy as zb, virtually zero payload, van.Now awaits the bombshell that itās also a more than 7.5t gross van to more than make up for the virtually ā3tā tare. 
As for crap I wouldnāt call a DAF LF 45 with a 4t + payload, which is as much as can be expected from a 7.5 tonner and obviously a lot more than your van could carry, ācrapā.With the win win that it aināt even going to notice a 3.5t trailer on the back of it.Unlike the silly car derived 2t ādual purposeā piece of worthless junk just to avoid the need for an O licence.
Carryfast:
Punchy Dan:
Carryfast:
biggriffin:
Mmm. Now who do I use a consultant, for my new light haulage business venture, do I use CF+C consultant know bugger .all,and associates. Or the D.Punchard esq, purveyors of sound knowledge, and experience.You do know that I told the OP to use a 7.5 tonner, you know around 3t unladen, just like Danās van with the difference that it will also have a lot more payload potential than the van.
The only 7.5 tonners on the market that tare in at 3 tonnes are utter crap .
We offer 9 metres of bed length on our pick up & trailer .
The other hauliers who I work with are no longer buying 7.5 tonners due to the high tare of euro 6 models and are moving on to 12 tonne gross .
The euro 6 7.5 tonners crane equipt like are carrying 2 to 2.5 tonnes .id say we carry more .How does that van based flat bed possibly ācarry moreā than a 7.5 tonner.
With the win win that the 7.5 tonner isnāt going be bothered by a 3.5 t trailer put on the back of it either way especially when itās loaded.
As for 12 tonner might as well go for 18.So letās get this right the point was comparing a < 2,040 tare ādual purposeā heap of junk car type pick up v a 7.5 tonner, to pull a 3.5 t trailer, all to avoid the need for an O licence.
You came back with the apples v oranges comparison of an around 3t tare flat bed van , if you can believe it,How ācrapā can the 7.5 tonner possibly be compared to your heavy as zb, virtually zero payload, van.Now awaits the bombshell that itās also a more than 7.5t gross van to more than make up for the virtually ā3tā tare.
As for crap I wouldnāt call a DAF LF 45 with a 4t + payload, which is as much as can be expected from a 7.5 tonner and obviously a lot more than your van could carry, ācrapā.With the win win that it aināt even going to notice a 3.5t trailer on the back of it.Unlike the silly car derived 2t ādual purposeā piece of worthless junk just to avoid the need for an O licence.
I just canāt be arsed arsed arguing with you ,go find a Lf 45 with a 4 tonne payload because it would need to be very short with an all aluminium body and not euro6 .
I use Geo Siddalls quite often and their euro 6 lf45 day cab with aluminium flat body carries 3.2 tonne
Punchy Dan:
I just canāt be arsed arsed arguing with you ,go find a Lf 45 with a 4 tonne payload because it would need to be very short with an all aluminium body and not euro6 .
I use Geo Siddalls quite often and their euro 6 lf45 day cab with aluminium flat body carries 3.2 tonne
How does a Euro 6 7.5 tonner flat lose around 1 tonne of payload compared to a Euro 5 Box body.Even if it does it still carries a lot more than your van could carry.
Let the alone the 2t ādual purposeā piece of junk, that I was āactuallyā referring to with the win win that its unfortunate driver wonāt be struggling with the thing going down every hill.Youāre obviously the one who went looking for a pointless argument in that regard.
Iāve got a 7.5 tonner and still use pickups and Discoveryās with tachos
Iāve also got one of CFās beloved A frame trailers with a 3.5t gross. IāII post a picture later if I remember.
Own Account Driver:
Iāve got a 7.5 tonner and still use pickups and Discoveryās with tachosIāve also got one of CFās beloved A frame trailers with a 3.5t gross. IāII post a picture later if I remember.
3.5t A frame bogie is obviously a game changer which is how the Swedes can pull a 30-40t trailer with a 25t rigid.Put that on the back of the Discovery no problem at all.
Just like thereās not many examples of 2 + 3 40t close coupled drawbar outfits out there but plenty of 3 + 2 and 2 + 3 A frames though.
Weāre now talking the finer points of combination weights v train weights and thatās why I like A frames. 
All the figures Iāve stated are true.
Sounds like you CF had a bad experience with your Austin allegro & caravan loaded too heavy with ā ā ā ā mags at the rear and now your an armchair expert .
Punchy Dan:
All the figures Iāve stated are true.
Sounds like you CF had a bad experience with your Austin allegro & caravan loaded too heavy with ā ā ā ā mags at the rear and now your an armchair expert .
Whatever.
The reality is Iāve driven everything from a decent car and caravan long before I had an HGV to close coupled 2 + 2 DAF 2300 and trailer outfit and Merc 2634 and DAF 85 3 + 2 A frame outfits.
The latter is like driving a Rolls Royce compared to your Allegro.The view in the mirrors is the only clue that itās towing anything more or less regardless of how itās loaded.
As I said by far the worse was hiring a van and a Land Rover and a two axle trailer to move my Jag to get some outside work done a couple of times.At most 3.5 t possibly even less but might as well have been 5.Not a drama but a needless handful which could go that way.When the law should make it easier to use a 7.5 tonner for light haulage trailer applications by removing all the stupid licencing restrictions before people inevitably get hurt by such stupid muppetry.
Another good example of how Carryfast gets one snippet of knowledge, decides itās the gospel, and then blanket sprays every argument with his āmy way good, you way badāā¦
Yes, an A frame trailer is the best design for stability and axle weight distribution. I know, Iāve driven them, I even did my test on a āfull size, tilt bodiedā combination in the Netherlands.
But, and Carryfast, like a preacher, cant see and accept the buts. The short coupled trailer was invented to increase payload (more space) within the maximum combination length allowed in Europe. For the majority of work, the close coupled trailer, combined with a sensible driver, will be fine. Note in the earlier post by Punchy Dan how the machine is loaded in the middle (ā¦ish 
) to centre the weight over the axles, rather than the drawbar.
Punchy Dan:
ā¦ Sounds like you CF had a bad experience with your Austin allegro & caravan loaded too heavy with ā ā ā ā mags at the rear and now your an armchair expert .
A real contender for post of the year!!
the nodding donkey:
Another good example of how Carryfast gets one snippet of knowledge, decides itās the gospel, and then blanket sprays every argument with his āmy way good, you way badāā¦Yes, an A frame trailer is the best design for stability and axle weight distribution. I know, Iāve driven them, I even did my test on a āfull size, tilt bodiedā combination in the Netherlands.
But, and Carryfast, like a preacher, cant see and accept the buts. The short coupled trailer was invented to increase payload (more space) within the maximum combination length allowed in Europe. For the majority of work, the close coupled trailer, combined with a sensible driver, will be fine. Note in the earlier post by Punchy Dan how the machine is loaded in the middle (ā¦ish
Close coupled in this case just means the difference between an A frame bogie type v an ordinary trailer.Of which the bar length and load deck lengths could possibly actually be no different or possibly even longer and shorter than an A frame outfit respectively.
The fact is towing an āordinaryā 3.5 t trailer behind something that potentially weighs ( too ) close to half as much is stupidity in the extreme.The stupid O licencing regime obviously incentivising such muppetry.That was my point.
So tell us how many 2 + 3 āclose coupledā outfits have you seen anywhere.As opposed to the usual 3 + 2 or possibly 2 + 2 or maybe 3 + 3.
But obviously plenty of 2 + 3 or 2 + 4 and or 3 + 5 A frame examples.
Train weight aināt the same thing as Combination weight and thatās the bit that the ādual purposeā vehicle manufacturers are missing in their stupid towing weight capacity recomendations and thatās why I always tell such fools to ignore them and use a 7.5 tonner and do whatever it takes to licence it.
Another point that Carryfast doesnt take into account/realise, is that the hitch on a close coupled combination is positioned differently in relation to the rear axle, which alters the weight distribution and forces on the body of the prime mover. The closer to the axle the hitch, the less influence the trailer (drawbar) exerts on the stability of the prime mover. On a close coupled combination, the hitch is typically as close to the rear axle as practicable.