I’ve been getting some of these lately, I asked the guy handing these to me to sign as they occur, he said they then just bin them but my shift length is over 10 hours 9 times out of 10, even if just by a few minutes (8-20, an hour maybe depending on closures/diversions, delays loading bays etc.) so I started setting the tacho to break every time the wheels aren’t moving to prevent ‘other work’, however I still got one because it seems to be counting the time you insert the card and then take it out as “Other work” for the WTD purposes…
I said to the office staff this is nonsesnse and they shrugged, a lot of drivers have been gettign these lately as they’ve “Changed the system”…? They’re using Tachomaster to keep track of it all.
Long story short I now insert my card after I’ve done checks etc, no manual entry back to the start of shift, literally 1 minute before I depart from the depot + setting it on break even if I may not really be on break (i.e. filling at the pumps) in an effort to avoid these. What’s worse - doing that or sucking up the WTD infringements
ETS:
I said to the office staff this is nonsesnse and they shrugged, a lot of drivers have been gettign these lately as they’ve “Changed the system”…? They’re using Tachomaster to keep track of it all.
It isn’t nonsense. Under the WTD (Mobile Workers) unless there is a workplace agreement in force the time for night workers is limited to 10hrs. A night worker for the WTD is someone who works any time between 00:00 and 04:00hrs.
If they do have a workplace agreement in force (and this needs to be something that drivers / drivers reps agreed to, management can’t just decide to put one in place) then you can just ignore it as the normal limits apply as they do on days. I would imagine given that when we’re on nights we don’t get any infringements for going over 10hrs that if there is a workplace agreement in force there’s a box somewhere on Tachomaster that the company hasn’t ticked to tell the software the 10hr limit doesn’t apply.
ROG:
Why do they not have a workforce opt out agreement in place
Not sure…Perhaps they did but it expired and they haven’t renewed it yet? I think it was baked into the employment contract anyway but now it seems to have changed.
The 10 hours thing is time worked, not time on “other work”. It sounds like they need to read the manual on tachomaster and turn that off as we’ve never had one.
Ultimately its up to them to sort the 10 hours thing do would recommend they just bin it actually set the software to save paper.
ETS:
I said to the office staff this is nonsesnse and they shrugged, a lot of drivers have been gettign these lately as they’ve “Changed the system”…? They’re using Tachomaster to keep track of it all.
It isn’t nonsense. Under the WTD (Mobile Workers) unless there is a workplace agreement in force the time for night workers is limited to 10hrs. A night worker for the WTD is someone who works any time between 00:00 and 04:00hrs.
If they do have a workplace agreement in force (and this needs to be something that drivers / drivers reps agreed to, management can’t just decide to put one in place) then you can just ignore it as the normal limits apply as they do on days. I would imagine given that when we’re on nights we don’t get any infringements for going over 10hrs that if there is a workplace agreement in force there’s a box somewhere on Tachomaster that the company hasn’t ticked to tell the software the 10hr limit doesn’t apply.
Yeah but here’s the thing, I’ve done 10+ hr shifts before and up until a couple weeeks ago I never had one of these so something’s clearly changed as it’s not only me I saw a pile of these waiting to be handed out to other drivers too
ETS:
Long story short I now insert my card after I’ve done checks etc, no manual entry back to the start of shift, literally 1 minute before I depart from the depot + setting it on break even if I may not really be on break (i.e. filling at the pumps) in an effort to avoid these. What’s worse - doing that or sucking up the WTD infringements
I wouldnt worry about the infringements, sign them, walk away and forget about them, but you should be showing time on your card while doing your daily checks. The guys in the people carriers wont like it if they dip your card and see you have put your card in, and driven off
Not an expert by any means, but the way the legislation is worded is that a driver should not exceed 10 hours working time in a 24 hour period. As such I can’t see that breaks during a shift would be part of it.
In order to comply with the rule, the total working time of the shift would need to be under 10 hours (driving + other work), but changing start times around could mean that the start of the next shift comes into play (if 24 hours hasn’t elapsed yet kind of thing).
However, it does seem like the company needs to turn off the relevant part of the analysis software for things to return to the way they were before.
It isn’t really a surprise to me that the infringements get printed off and doled out for signing without engaging a brain cell before doing so, but maybe I’m just being cynical.
Noremac:
Not an expert by any means, but the way the legislation is worded is that a driver should not exceed 10 hours working time in a 24 hour period. As such I can’t see that breaks during a shift would be part of it.
You’re slightly misunderstanding it mate. Assuming there is no opt out in place the first part is correct, but the second isn’t; breaks and POA care not counted in the eyes of the law. It is possible to do a 15 hour night shift and still not fall foul of the 10 hour rules by use of breaks and POA. It’s probably a moot point anyway as I’d be surprised if anyone has ever been prosecuted under WTD rules. Although there’s always a first time for anything.
the maoster:
You’re slightly misunderstanding it mate. Assuming there is no opt out in place the first part is correct, but the second isn’t; breaks and POA care not counted in the eyes of the law. It is possible to do a 15 hour night shift and still not fall foul of the 10 hour rules by use of breaks and POA. It’s probably a moot point anyway as I’d be surprised if anyone has ever been prosecuted under WTD rules. Although there’s always a first time for anything.
Just to clarify that I think exactly the same as you. Breaks don’t count as working time. That is what I meant in my post.
ETS:
… setting it on break even if I may not really be on break (i.e. filling at the pumps) in an effort to avoid these. What’s worse - doing that or sucking up the WTD infringements
Doing that will get you potential interest from the Ford Galaxy people and potentially fined if they found out. Plus it’s not good for the company.
WTD is run by HSE, so no interest to DVSA. As mentioned, sign, ignore and get on with driving legally. Let someone else figure out the software has the wrong setting amd they are wasting paper.
ETS:
… setting it on break even if I may not really be on break (i.e. filling at the pumps) in an effort to avoid these. What’s worse - doing that or sucking up the WTD infringements
Doing that will get you potential interest from the Ford Galaxy people and potentially fined if they found out. Plus it’s not good for the company.
WTD is run by HSE, so no interest to DVSA. As mentioned, sign, ignore and get on with driving legally. Let someone else figure out the software has the wrong setting amd they are wasting paper.
I disagree.
If you have done nowt wrong, then dont sign to say you have. Write a note to say why you have not broken any rules, and then sign. Dont let the buck end up with you. If you have genuinely done wrong, then the onus is on management to make it clear to you what is wrong.
As you say the software may be set wrong throwing up infringements where none exist, but ignoring it won`t correct it.
ETS:
Long story short I now insert my card after I’ve done checks etc, no manual entry back to the start of shift, literally 1 minute before I depart from the depot + setting it on break even if I may not really be on break (i.e. filling at the pumps) in an effort to avoid these. What’s worse - doing that or sucking up the WTD infringements
I wouldnt worry about the infringements, sign them, walk away and forget about them, but you should be showing time on your card while doing your daily checks. The guys in the people carriers wont like it if they dip your card and see you have put your card in, and driven off
Maybe I’m the wrong guy to comment on this type of thread as I’m strictly on a voluntary ‘need to know’ basis when it comes to all this type of crap.
Way I see it I’d go for getting the wtd infringements option, which are basically a nonsense, because afaik it ain’t actually ‘policed’ to the point of getting nicked and fined, the worst case scenario is getting some non job type excercising his power trip by giving you what he perceives to be a bollocking…oooh I’d be shaking in me shoes.
Where as not booking time, doing checks ‘off card’ and showing breaks whilst working (dieseling up) is tantamount to falsifying records/false entries, which is a more realistic and serious offence.
Now…if I’m totally wrong on both of the above points, just ignore me. I do not profess to be an expert due to a distinct lack of real interest.
Nobody will be interested that you have broken the WTD for working more than a 10 hour shift on nights, until you have a bad accident, then the authorities WILL be very interested.
shullbit:
Nobody will be interested that you have broken the WTD for working more than a 10 hour shift on nights, until you have a bad accident, then the authorities WILL be very interested.
Yes. It`s all good, until it goes wrong.
And the office will point out that they have told you off, but you continued on your way down the rocky path…
shullbit:
Nobody will be interested that you have broken the WTD for working more than a 10 hour shift on nights, until you have a bad accident, then the authorities WILL be very interested.
Yes. It`s all good, until it goes wrong.
And the office will point out that they have told you off, but you continued on your way down the rocky path…
It never ceases to amaze me how these firms and their ■■■■ …‘‘Compliance managers’’ are ■■■■ hot on you adhering to the rules, …but amazingly and conveniently turn a blind eye when the situation suits THEM.
Quite simple really, dont falsify records, start your card from when you start your shift with the appropriate manual entry if needed, book legal breaks and actually take them. If compliance at your place says you must only do 10hrs from your start time to finish time irrelevant of POA or break then make ■■■■ sure you are back in the yard within the 10hrs even if that means that your run is not completed and you have to turn round halfway and head back. Play by their rules and they cant do anything about it as you are complying by not getting an infringement.
DVSA on the other hand will smash your rear doors in without any grease for falsifying a record at the start of the shift by not showing enough time for vehicle checks and working through breaks.
