Dan Punchard:
When you ask vosa over the phone most of them read from a book which they don’t always understand if you ask them to expand on anything they just repeat them selves,not that I know the answer/ right or wrong.
when I rang dan I asked to be put through to the department that deals with driver hours regulations, when the transferred call was answered I asked again if I was at the right department for drivers hours regulations and the answer was yes, gave the person answering, the question I posted and with out any hesitation they answered that I was correct, they didn’t have time to look anything up before they answered, now calls are monitored and recorded at all government sites so I don’t believe they would give a wrong answer to the question because of the legal implications of giving an incorrect answer, or am I just being naïve
And Wildfire now has his answer. Which for everybody out there is basically; driving entirely ‘off road’ isn’t counted as driving. Remember to use the ‘out of scope’ function on a digital tacho. On analogue tachos make a not of when ‘out of scope’ started and ended on the back of the chart.
Note for anybody talking or e-mailing VOSA, or any other enforcement organisation. They cannot give ‘a legally correct answer’ to a question, only a properly constituted Court may do that. The enforcers can give their opinion or policy regarding a particular set of circumstances or quote case law as set down by a Court. But until the person with the wig says ‘guilty’ or ‘not guilty’ it’s all worth diddly squat. But something with a name on it is always good for mitigation when in Court.
Something I forgot to put in the PM was that although parts of his day, when driving on journeys ‘entirely off road’ will be counted as ‘work’ rather than ‘driving’ the EU requirements regarding daily rest will still apply. In other words; after no more than 13 or 15 hours of starting a shift, you will need to start a continuous daily rest period of 11 or 9 hours.
geebee45:
And Wildfire now has his answer. Which for everybody out there is basically; driving entirely ‘off road’ isn’t counted as driving. Remember to use the ‘out of scope’ function on a digital tacho. On analogue tachos make a not of when ‘out of scope’ started and ended on the back of the chart.
Note for anybody talking or e-mailing VOSA, or any other enforcement organisation. They cannot give ‘a legally correct answer’ to a question, only a properly constituted Court may do that. The enforcers can give their opinion or policy regarding a particular set of circumstances or quote case law as set down by a Court. But until the person with the wig says ‘guilty’ or ‘not guilty’ it’s all worth diddly squat. But something with a name on it is always good for mitigation when in Court.
Something I forgot to put in the PM was that although parts of his day, when driving on journeys ‘entirely off road’ will be counted as ‘work’ rather than ‘driving’ the EU requirements regarding daily rest will still apply. In other words; after no more than 13 or 15 hours of starting a shift, you will need to start a continuous daily rest period of 11 or 9 hours.
Now I’m off to consume more red grape juice
thanks geebee for clarifying that my answer was correct, I have found through the years that you need to read regulations very carefully and find that punctuation is as important as the wording to interpret the meanings.
I will say one thing when I post about rules and regulations I try and do my best to make sure the answers are accurate and correct to that particular question, I always check with the vosa guide book and if needs be read the regulation in there original form, which sometimes gives me a real headache just trying to find the correct passage
How about when you are driving the vehicle for non hire & reward purposes? Ie a truck show, school prom, as a carnival float or as I recently did the East Coast Truckers Charity Convoy! (Obviously as long as your insurance covers you for SDP)
The truck is not earning neither is the driver however you still have to use a tacho graph, digi or analogue to show the mileage!
Retro rob:
How about when you are driving the vehicle for non hire & reward purposes? Ie a truck show, school prom, as a carnival float or as I recently did the East Coast Truckers Charity Convoy! (Obviously as long as your insurance covers you for SDP)
The truck is not earning neither is the driver however you still have to use a tacho graph, digi or analogue to show the mileage!
Can this be classed as “out of scope?”
There is no private LGV driving for a vehicle over 7.5 tonnes GVW
This is why private 18 tonne horsebox owners are not happy
Retro rob:
How about when you are driving the vehicle for non hire & reward purposes? Ie a truck show, school prom, as a carnival float or as I recently did the East Coast Truckers Charity Convoy! (Obviously as long as your insurance covers you for SDP)
The truck is not earning neither is the driver however you still have to use a tacho graph, digi or analogue to show the mileage!
Can this be classed as “out of scope?”
There is no private LGV driving for a vehicle over 7.5 tonnes GVW
This is why private 18 tonne horsebox owners are not happy
Really? That’s totally absurd! What the difference between a horse box and the rule saying somethhing to the effect of “if u drive an lgv but its not your main job ie scaffolder you’re exempt from certain rules/dcpc” sorry cant remember the exact rule!
If the truck and the driver are not earning surely it doesn’t make it any different from driving a car?
What’s the next thing? Coz you’re polishing your truck at Truckfest it can’t be classed as a weekend break?
The reason I asked this is because someone mentioned to me there maybe a job going delivering new & used trucks around the country, long hours etc but no trade plate work. I was told a car takes you to wherever and picks you up and returns you, and that you are paid for the car travelling time. When driving Class1 they use digicard, rigids they use out of scope mode and keep a log book. That is all I know so far as I havn’t pursued it further till I found out if it was allowed.
Basically I was told a typical day maybe say 4am travel in car as passenger to say Southampton - Pick Class 1 up drive to Coventry, then pick a rigid up Coventry to Manchester, then another Manchester to Liverppol, then collected at Liverpool for car journey home, no goods are being carried, all trade plate work.
Retro rob:
How about when you are driving the vehicle for non hire & reward purposes? Ie a truck show, school prom, as a carnival float or as I recently did the East Coast Truckers Charity Convoy! (Obviously as long as your insurance covers you for SDP)
The truck is not earning neither is the driver however you still have to use a tacho graph, digi or analogue to show the mileage!
Can this be classed as “out of scope?”
Non of the above is out of scope. It will come off your weekly drive as well and also effect your weekly rest period. Thats why you dont see many companies using trucks for carnival floats anymore. I know its crazy but the rules where made by someone we didn’t vote for or even want and have never driven a truck in their life, and don’t really live in the real world but an ivory tower in Brussels
Retro rob:
How about when you are driving the vehicle for non hire & reward purposes? Ie a truck show, school prom, as a carnival float or as I recently did the East Coast Truckers Charity Convoy! (Obviously as long as your insurance covers you for SDP)
The truck is not earning neither is the driver however you still have to use a tacho graph, digi or analogue to show the mileage!
Can this be classed as “out of scope?”
Non of the above is out of scope. It will come off your weekly drive as well and also effect your weekly rest period. Thats why you dont see many companies using trucks for carnival floats anymore. I know its crazy but the rules where made by someone we didn’t vote for or even want and have never driven a truck in their life, and don’t really live in the real world but an ivory tower in Brussels
Thank you,ROG and Wildfire, appreciate you clearing that up for me!
The law is absurd and contradicts itself in more areas than not!
I can’t drive my truck to a truck show but I could drive a transit (other vans are available) to Scotland and back to norfolk to do a removals job on a weekend for a relative where I’m not being paid!
Retro rob:
How about when you are driving the vehicle for non hire & reward purposes? Ie a truck show, school prom, as a carnival float or as I recently did the East Coast Truckers Charity Convoy! (Obviously as long as your insurance covers you for SDP)
The truck is not earning neither is the driver however you still have to use a tacho graph, digi or analogue to show the mileage!
Can this be classed as “out of scope?”
There is no private LGV driving for a vehicle over 7.5 tonnes GVW
This is why private 18 tonne horsebox owners are not happy
To clarify that further, lifted from page 25 the VOSA guide for horse box and trailer owners.
Consequently, all drivers of horseboxes exceeding 7.5 tonnes need to adhere to the rules on drivers’ hours and tachographs.
Retro rob:
How about when you are driving the vehicle for non hire & reward purposes? Ie a truck show, school prom, as a carnival float or as I recently did the East Coast Truckers Charity Convoy! (Obviously as long as your insurance covers you for SDP)
The truck is not earning neither is the driver however you still have to use a tacho graph, digi or analogue to show the mileage!
Can this be classed as “out of scope?”
There is no private LGV driving for a vehicle over 7.5 tonnes GVW
This is why private 18 tonne horsebox owners are not happy
To clarify that further, lifted from page 25 the VOSA guide for horse box and trailer owners.
Consequently, all drivers of horseboxes exceeding 7.5 tonnes need to adhere to the rules on drivers’ hours and tachographs.
and what makes it even more stupid is I own a 7.5 tonne horsebox and I can drive it all weekend with no problems at all, I wanted to get an 18 tonner which was cheaper, gave more living space in it and would never run over weight because of the 4 horses we have, but I couldn’t because it would effect my rest periods and driving times ect. now the one I have is right on the limit weight wise when I have all the horses loaded and has less space to relax in.
