The scenario.
Had a loan van at home as truck in for repair, told to pick truck up yesterday at 530am.
Left home in loan van at 5am and classed this as start of shift, arrived at dealers 525am, and by the time I was seen and truck was dug out from the rear of the workshop I got in my vehicle at 545am.
Did my days work and finally got to 1 of our yards at 735pm, by the time I hooked up and did my checks it was now 750pm. My own base and other yard is 30 mins away, so traffic permitting if I’d have gone there I’d have been parked up and booked off at approx 830pm, which would have out me over a 15 and left me with insufficient daily rest.
Half hour after I booked off, get a call from transport ‘manager’ ripping into me that I’d taken a night out when not needed, as I didn’t need to book on till I’d got in the truck!!!
So, who’s right. Not interested in should of done this that or the othet, just after what is 100% legally correct. I think and hope I know the answer. Just after clarification please.
Thanks.
As a side note, where I stopped the night saved an hours driving on today’s job, and if things have got that desperate for money he can keep the night out, I don’t need it that bad, I Also don’t need a big fine from vosa.
30 mins over the max 15 would have been a step too far so you did right to park up
Your day was 0500 to 1950 so just inside the max
You truck was not at home or base so officially starting at 0500 was correct
In future just tell him too pick the truck up himselfand get it back to work ready to start your day,then you won’t have to have a unnecessary night out 
,god you’ve done him a favour and he ■■■■■■■ about it ungrateful ■■■■ 
Cheers rog 
Thought that was the case. Just wanted to be 100% certain.
Where did the loan van come from?
Where did you book off the day before?
My thinking is that if the repair place loaned you the van and you booked off at the repair place then the van was supplied for private use so you could commute between repair place and home then back to repair place so if booking off at repair place then booking back on at repair place would be the correct procedure
Where you booked off before the daily rest should be where you book on after it
chilistrucker:
Had a loan van at home as truck in for repair, told to pick truck up yesterday at 530am.
Left home in loan van at 5am and classed this as start of shift,…
…
So, who’s right.
This is the correct thing to do. Travelling to and from a vehicle other than your usual place of work is working time. You previousy booked off work when you arrived home the the evening prior?
That is why I had second thoughts from my first answer Mike
I should have asked where the driver booked off the day previous before answering
nothing wrong with booking off and on at the repair place and using a freebee vehicle to do with as the driver sees fit
ROG lets hope he booked off at home or he’ll have a hard job explaining 
ROG:
nothing wrong with booking off and on at the repair place and using a freebee vehicle to do with as the driver sees fit
This makes it a big no no.
Mike-C:
ROG:
nothing wrong with booking off and on at the repair place and using a freebee vehicle to do with as the driver sees fitThis makes it a big no no.
He would not be illegal because that refers to getting around the rules when not at home or base
If he booked off and on at the same place then he could use bus train cycle or borrowed vehicle to do what he likes with as it is his time to dispose of as he wishes but then if he has no bed to use either in the cab or at a B&B etc where he booked off then my thinking is mute
ROG:
Mike-C:
ROG:
nothing wrong with booking off and on at the repair place and using a freebee vehicle to do with as the driver sees fitThis makes it a big no no.
He would not be illegal because that refers to getting around the rules when not at home or base
If he booked off and on at the same place then he could use bus train cycle or borrowed vehicle to do what he likes with as it is his time to dispose of as he wishes but then if he has no bed to use either in the cab or at a B&B etc where he booked off then my thinking is mute
OK
If you had driven to pick the truck up in your own car then your shift would have started when you got to the workshop. But because it was a loan van (I am assuming from the company you work for) then your shift legally started at 5am when you left home.
It works the same the other way round too. If you run out of hours and another driver comes out in a company vehicle to swap with you, you are not legally allowed to drive that vehicle even if it is not fitted with a tacho. You are fine to do a fifteen hour shift and then drive your own car though. Stupid I know but that’s the law as I understand it. So in my opinion you done right and your transport manager needs to brush up on his eu driving laws.
Another point to make might be the fact that if he was aware that you were on your daily rest period then he was acting illegally by phoning you and disturbing it.
I’m sure I’m right on both accounts but no doubt someone will say otherwise.
dreamingofoz:
If you had driven to pick the truck up in your own car then your shift would have started when you got to the workshop. But because it was a loan van (I am assuming from the company you work for) then your shift legally started at 5am when you left home.
It works the same the other way round too. If you run out of hours and another driver comes out in a company vehicle to swap with you, you are not legally allowed to drive that vehicle even if it is not fitted with a tacho. You are fine to do a fifteen hour shift and then drive your own car though. Stupid I know but that’s the law as I understand it. So in my opinion you done right and your transport manager needs to brush up on his eu driving laws.
Another point to make might be the fact that if he was aware that you were on your daily rest period then he was acting illegally by phoning you and disturbing it.
I’m sure I’m right on both accounts but no doubt someone will say otherwise.
Finishing and starting at the same place if not at home or base is a requirement
Having access to a bed is also a requirement
If both have been complied with then in the time between finishing and starting the driver can do what they like
chilistrucker:
The scenario.
Had a loan van at home as truck in for repair, told to pick truck up yesterday at 530am.
Left home in loan van at 5am and classed this as start of shift, arrived at dealers 525am, and by the time I was seen and truck was dug out from the rear of the workshop I got in my vehicle at 545am.
Did my days work and finally got to 1 of our yards at 735pm, by the time I hooked up and did my checks it was now 750pm. My own base and other yard is 30 mins away, so traffic permitting if I’d have gone there I’d have been parked up and booked off at approx 830pm, which would have out me over a 15 and left me with insufficient daily rest.
Half hour after I booked off, get a call from transport ‘manager’ ripping into me that I’d taken a night out when not needed, as I didn’t need to book on till I’d got in the truck!!!
So, who’s right. Not interested in should of done this that or the othet, just after what is 100% legally correct. I think and hope I know the answer. Just after clarification please.
Thanks.
As a side note, where I stopped the night saved an hours driving on today’s job, and if things have got that desperate for money he can keep the night out, I don’t need it that bad, I Also don’t need a big fine from vosa.
You was travelling under the instruction of your employer not disposing of your time freely, so legally the travelling time is other work.
Legally you was correct that your shift started when you left home at 05:00.
Putting the legalities to one side for a moment, whether or not you “should have/could have” booked on when you picked the truck up I suppose depends on your relationship with your employer, personally I’ll always try to be a little flexible where it’s required unless the boss is a total [zb] in which case it’s what ever suits me.
tachograph:
You was travelling under the instruction of your employer
Did the employer tell him to take the van and go home?
Re: Other work, manual entry. Clarity please.
Postby ROG » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:20 am
dreamingofoz wrote:
If you had driven to pick the truck up in your own car then your shift would have started when you got to the workshop. But because it was a loan van (I am assuming from the company you work for) then your shift legally started at 5am when you left home.
It works the same the other way round too. If you run out of hours and another driver comes out in a company vehicle to swap with you, you are not legally allowed to drive that vehicle even if it is not fitted with a tacho. You are fine to do a fifteen hour shift and then drive your own car though. Stupid I know but that’s the law as I understand it. So in my opinion you done right and your transport manager needs to brush up on his eu driving laws.
Another point to make might be the fact that if he was aware that you were on your daily rest period then he was acting illegally by phoning you and disturbing it.
I’m sure I’m right on both accounts but no doubt someone will say otherwise.
Finishing and starting at the same place if not at home or base is a requirement
Having access to a bed is also a requirement
If both have been complied with then in the time between finishing and starting the driver can do what they like
I stand corrected. 
Still think my point about not being able to drive a company vehicle if you’ve run out of hours is correct though.
Also be grateful if someone could clarify my point about not being disturbed whilst on a rest period.
How dose the finishing and starting in the same place rule work say if you were doing trade plate deliveries then because by the nature of the job you’d be pretty hard stretched to start where you finished or would your entire journey back to base/home/next collection have to be classed as other work?
ROG:
tachograph:
You was travelling under the instruction of your employerDid the employer tell him to take the van and go home?
Makes not one iota of difference whether or not his boss actually told him to drive home, the van was clearly loaned to him as a courtesy vehicle arranged by, or agreed on, by his boss.
How many garages do you know who will lend you a vehicle as a personal favour rather than as part of their business, it’s reasonable to assume that he was loaned the van as part of his job.
dreamingofoz:
How dose the finishing and starting in the same place rule work say if you were doing trade plate deliveries then because by the nature of the job you’d be pretty hard stretched to start where you finished or would your entire journey back to base/home/next collection have to be classed as other work?
On that job on EU regs the shift would start and end at home/base but if over 2 days or more then book off and on at the B&B etc
What about this?
On Friday, I will be leaving my lorry at head office and getting a works minibus back to my normal place of work to get my car. On Monday I make a manual entry on digicard (set to POA) recording the time spent travelling back to my car (I wont be driving said bus, I make straight for the rear seats to sleep!)
When I leave my lorry at MANs I drive back in a (clapped out) company car to the quarry, making a manual entry for other work to account the car driving time.
I take it I’ve done correct in both scenarios?
Muckaway:
What about this?
On Friday, I will be leaving my lorry at head office and getting a works minibus back to my normal place of work to get my car. On Monday I make a manual entry on digicard (set to POA) recording the time spent travelling back to my car (I wont be driving said bus, I make straight for the rear seats to sleep!)When I leave my lorry at MANs I drive back in a (clapped out) company car to the quarry, making a manual entry for other work to account the car driving time.
I take it I’ve done correct in both scenarios?
yup