i went to stobarts at sherburn on thursday morning for a driving assesment 1 of 6 other drivers 5 of us were class 1 and 1 was class 2 which i thought was strange as we were being assesed for yard shunting. so we were paired into twos and i ended up with the class 2 driver .so were stood talking watching the other lads do the test across the yard and he explained that he,d failed his test on the monday for not releasing the parking brake on trailer and trying to drive away and his retest is on saturday as he,s telling me about this a fh12 pulls in yard unit only and reverses up to the barrier where were stood, driver gets out and walks across to the office. the class 2 lad turns to me and says wats that thing with the handle sticking out and points to the fifth wheel ,i laugh and say your joking arent you to which he replies no ive never seen one before, so i say your doing your class 1 arent you? and he says yes on a wagon and drag .now imagine if this bloke came to drive for the company you drive for and asked you how to couple up personally id be quite concered. do you agree with being trained on wagon n drag rather than a a proper artic ?
If he takes his test in a wagon and drag then he can`t drive an Artic.
Disclaimer for any smart arses who say there are special types of wagon and drag that let you but my knowledge is small so never 100% sure. 
yes he can! i did mine in the Army on a a wagon and drag. Got a job in civie street on an Artic and had never coupled One up before,but came clean with the company and told them so and learnt.
aranger:
If he takes his test in a wagon and drag then he can`t drive an Artic.
He can the &E entitlement is with trailer, whether that be a trailer to be coupled to a unit or a drag to the prime mover. So you’re saying as I did my test in artic I can’t drive W&D and will have to do another test to drive one■■?
i agree there is potential for a major problem, it goes both ways legally i can drive a wagon and drag but i wouldn’t know where to start. But anyone with any sense would ask for training before attempting to drive something new.
Unless the laws have changed now it was always Class 2 for a wag drag, only Artics were in Class 1, which was always strange as wag drags were longer than artics
garnerlives:
the &E entitlement is with trailer, whether that be a trailer to be coupled to a unit or a drag to the prime mover
spot on 
Mr B:
anyone with any sense would ask for training before attempting to drive something new
Can’t say better than that
Coddy:
Unless the laws have changed now it was always Class 2 for a wag drag, only Artics were in Class 1, which was always strange as wag drags were longer than artics
The quote above highlights a problem that many get confused on.
It is down to the ‘terminology’ used. Using the terms ‘Class’ & ‘HGV’ will get many confused as they are no more.
LGV terms are C1. C & C+E and they have a different meaning to the old terms.
OLD -
HGV class 3 - rigid over 7.5 tonnes with 2 axles
HGV class 2 - rigid over 7.5 tonnes with more than 2 axles
HGV class 1 - ARTIC
HGV classes 2 & 3 drivers may also have entitlement to drive Wagon & Drags
NEW -
LGV C - any rigid vehicle over 7.5 tonnes (including an artic unit)
LGV C+E - any C which has a trailer - be it Drag or artic trailer.
HGV classes 2 & 3 drivers who have entitlement to drive Wagon & Drags will have a code 102 (Drawbar trailers only)
Now here come the ‘funny’ bit 
- A driver with the 102 code can drive a W&D to the DSA LGV test centre on their own - put L plates on it - do a LGV C+E test in it - if they pass then they have full LGV C+E so can now drive ARTICS - if they fail they can still drive out of test centre on thier own as they still have a W&D licence 
garnerlives:
aranger:
If he takes his test in a wagon and drag then he can`t drive an Artic.He can the &E entitlement is with trailer, whether that be a trailer to be coupled to a unit or a drag to the prime mover. So you’re saying as I did my test in artic I can’t drive W&D and will have to do another test to drive one■■?
I worked for symphony kitchens on agency for a few months and the guy that trained me said he couldnt drive artics so maybe I got mixed up and he simply meant he couldnt personally but I thought he meant legally.
He came up from Leeds though and you know what they say about listening to an Englishman, your knowledge will be small. 
aranger:
the guy that trained me said he couldnt drive artics so maybe I got mixed up and he simply meant he couldnt personally but I thought he meant legally.
If he was old enough then that may be true - that he cannot drive an ARTIC legally - see my last post above…
Mr B:
i agree there is potential for a major problem, it goes both ways legally i can drive a wagon and drag but i wouldn’t know where to start.
I’m the same - it says i can drive a wag+drag on my licence but ive never even set foot in one 
we have one wag+drag at our depot and i know one day i’ll be told to take it out, should be interesting to say the least
i passed my lgv C+E in a W&D and 6 weeks later started on artic with no instruction just got in and got on with it, never drop a trailer for the six month i was driving that artic got a job at a truck rental company and just told them not done it and there showed me and within 2 weeks i had uncoupled 50 plus trailers, or and i dropped one on its knees right in front of the boss and he could not stop laughing, he told me you are not the first and you wont be the last.
merc0447:
m the same - it says i can drive a wag+drag on my licence but ive never even set foot in one
I reversed an ‘A’ frame… once… that is my expertise on W&Ds covered
ROG:
aranger:
the guy that trained me said he couldnt drive artics so maybe I got mixed up and he simply meant he couldnt personally but I thought he meant legally.If he was old enough then that may be true - that he cannot drive an ARTIC legally - see my last post above…
See I thought it was to do with cornering and reversing.
Your trailer box will simply follow your front box so steering is simpler in a W&D and reversing is also easier.
Need to stop this bloody thinking its doing me no good.
aranger:
trailer box will simply follow your front box so steering is simpler in a W&D and reversing is also easier.
Forwards - seems to be easier in W&Ds from posts I have read on here
Reversing - that is definitely different in both W&Ds and ARTICS - which is easier? - matter of opinion I would say…
Forwards - seems to be easier in W&Ds from posts I have read on here
Reversing - that is definitely different in both W&Ds and ARTICS - which is easier? - matter of opinion I would say…No question: W+D is easier both forwards and backwards (assuming it’s close coupled - not A frame). I’ve spent the last 12 years teaching on W+D and the previous 25 on artic so I possibly have an idea.
The idea that the W+D is more difficult to reverse comes from the time honoured statement that “longer trailers are easier to reverse”. What is meant is that the longer the trailer is, the slower it reacts. Therefore you get into trouble less quickly. However, as the trailer reacts more slowly, it’s also regularly impossible to sort it out once it’s gone wrong. W+D will tie itself up quicker - but you can untie it should that happen.
I used to subscribe to the idea that W+D would be more difficult to reverse until I tried one. Tied it up big style 1st time. Never since.
Suggest that those who haven’t actually done it give it a go.Having said all that, artics are far more common as we all know. So having passed the test, all drivers proposing to drive artics should then have a half day on a real artic. This is plenty of time and will give confidence and reassurance to both driver and operator.
I hadn`t long passed my C&E and I found that wagon and drag was much simpler, pretty much the same as a rigid going forwards and no help to me at all in trying to gain experience reversing Artics.
When I drove W&D I was at the same stage experience wise in Artics when I went back to them as W&D was no help to me at all and I found reversing much easier in a W&D.
Looking for somewhere do dump your trailer on W&D is a different story all together. 
In saying that if the guy hadn`t taken me out for a couple of days I could never have got my box on the trailer so training is required for using both as imo both require a totally different skill.
Having driven C&E i was capable of driving a W&D in fact as moving forward goes my rigid experience would have covered W&D I couldn`t have driven an Artic if I only ever did W&D.
All these letters are doing my head in.
> aranger:
> If he takes his test in a wagon and drag then he can`t drive an Artic.[/b]
>
> Disclaimer for any smart arses who say there are special types of wagon and drag that let you but my knowledge is small so never 100% sure.
Oh yes he can!
You get the same feeling when you jump from a 45ft trl to a dinky urban trl,u tend to forget that your in a smaller trl and when it turns too fast then you remember oops slow down.always happens when people are watching.
Wot about if your used to driving an artic and 1 day ur asked to take a rigid out,so off you go and get to ur drop,u start to reverse on to the bay/dock and u hear them words fae the warehouseman oi driver your turning the wrong ■■■■■■ way.then you realise it ain’t an artic.