We are trying to work out what is correct and what isn’t!
For years the company has been using a jump jockey system.
We run 3 trucks on a long distance trunk every night, which is too far to go and fit into a 9 hour shift.
We can do it on a 10, but obviously only two nights a week.
To combat this, we have a 4th driver.
So, trucks 1 to 3 and drivers A to D.
Truck 1 leaves with driver D (the jump jockey) driving, driver A is passenger.
An hour up the road D gets out, A continues the rest of the journey to the hub.
Truck 2 with driver B meets D. D now drives for an hour while B resets his time with is card in slot 2.
Truck 3 with driver C now catches up with B. D is now driven as a passenger for an hour so his time resets.
D now drives truck 3 to the hub with C resetting his time.
Now all 3 trucks are at the hub. D now gets back in with driver A in truck 1, and the whole process happens the same to get everyone home.
When we get back and download our cards it shows as having insufficient breaks, the old transport manager stated it was ok as we were having a break while on POA in slot 2.
Our new TM is saying that is incorrect as we are not showing a break. He has said we should not put our card in slot 2 when not driving, but to add a break with a manual entry.
We thought you cannot do that and take a break with the truck moving as it’s not a proper double manned shift.
What would be the correct way to solve this? We don’t have enough time to take it as a proper break as it would make the shift too long. It’s a 4hr 45mins drive each way.
We believe the only solution is proper double manning?
Not an expert, and cant get online to .gov at the moment. But I think youll find
The being double manned throughout is only relevant if wanting to take advantage of the long shift, and short break for double manning. If the shifts are within 13 hrs, there is no problem in being single manned for part of the shift.
When being 2nd man, you must have your card in slot two. It may only record POA, but that does count as Break, assuming the 2nd man isn`t navigating or owt else.
As I understand it to use double man regs. Both drivers have to be in the same vehicle for the double man period. Or a second man has to be picked up within a hour of the start of the shift.so using a driver to swap into different vehicles would not be classed as double manned therefore any breaks would not be counted as breaks.
A vehicle is considered to be double-manned if, at any driving period, in between two daily or a daily and weekly rest period, the vehicle has two drivers on board (who are able to drive and have a tachograph card). The first hour of this driving time is optional, which means it is possible to pick up the second driver within one hour after the shift has started.
They tried a mid way trailer swap but it was too expensive, as we run 5 trucks a day with it occasionally being 6.
I guess the main question is, according to the tacho our driving time is reset from being in slot 2, however this then doesn’t show us as having taken a break.
I have seen it mentioned on other sites that it is possible for the downloaded data to be manually amended from showing POA to a break.
Our TM is saying we need to show a break, obviously as above, we can’t leave our card out and manually add a break, as the card has to be in while you’re in the truck moving.
One of our arguments is that it’s not strictly POA any way, as you are stuck in the truck and not able to go or do anything else
The only time It would be legal to have a driver take charge of a vehicle over that first hour, would be in exceptional circumstances like a driver taking I’ll or something along those lines afaik.
“A break A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken.”
Tacho slot 2 automatically records POA when vehicle is moving, but this counts as break.
And
“Where the above conditions are complied with then the multi-manning concession may be used – that is each driver must have a daily rest period of at least 9 consecutive hours but they may do so within the 30-hour period that starts at the end of the last daily or weekly rest period (rather than the normal 24 hour period). Organising drivers’ duties in such a fashion enables a crew’s duties to be spread over 21 hours.
If however the conditions cannot be complied with, then drivers sharing duties on a journey will individually be governed by single manning rules and will not be able to use the concession which allows daily rest to be taken in a 30 hour period.”
Having the 2nd man absent for part of the shift, means you can`t take “advantage” of a 30hr, rather than a 24hr period.
No other issues I can see?
Going against the grain here but I don’t see a problem. All drivers would be working as a single driver though so would be restricted to 15hrs max spreadover.
The new TM needs a whack with a GV262 as the first 45 minutes in slot two is recorded as POA but will be recorded as a break.
However its his/her train set effectively so see what alternative they have.
In the real world we used to use jump drivers on the coaches where we’d pull into a services northbound, pick up a driver who would drive for an hour while the first driver had a break (in the moving vehicle), they’d then pull into another services swapover again and the original driver would carry on while the jump driver waited to do similar for a southbound coach. Both services used VOSA hotspots at each of the jump too but there was never an issue.
cav551:
How long is the spreadover time (length of shift sign on/off) for each driver? Do all three take a break out of the vehicle at any point?
No, everyone’s breaks are taken as a passenger.
The only person that would get a break out of the truck is driver D who could be waiting for the next truck to arrive to him, but that is always a random length of time.
I thought I’d heard it all , but now we have jump jockeys driving the bloody lorries
All I can say is the jump jockey ( driver d ) must want his head testing for doing the crap he is , I’d tell them to shove it , and get driver a,b,c to be the bloody jump jockey
Both cards being in doesn’t mean you are talking advantage of or trying to take advantage of the double-manned rules. Being on POA in slot 2 is effectively a break whether taking advantage of the double-manned rules or not.
With a 9.5 hour driving time per truck, I don’t see a reason why, with a quick turnaround, the total shift would be more than about 12-13 hours and there is even scope to be delayed resulting in using a reduced rest or two.
dozy:
I thought I’d heard it all , but now we have jump jockeys driving the bloody lorries
All I can say is the jump jockey ( driver d ) must want his head testing for doing the crap he is , I’d tell them to shove it , and get driver a,b,c to be the bloody jump jockey
It’s excellent money and we rotate on a rota, so you are only driver D once a month