One for the legal eagles

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

I got a pull this week by the DVSA in Inverness. “We’ll just check your vehicle, and your tacho driver,and then you’ll be on your way”.
No problem. I keep it legal.

Suddenly, “what were you doing last Thursday at 10 20 pm?”
I was parked up in the compound at Hyde Park (BST concerts) collecting catering equipment, but had pulled the card at 7.10, walked out for a pint and a bit of a look around while the truck was being loaded. I had walked back at 10.30 pm & was sitting with a coffee when a traffic marshall approached & asked if I was staying the night? Yes mate, ok, but you can’t leave the truck here, follow me (walking speed) and you can park untill 7am. Cheers buddy, no worries.
He walks, I drive for 4 mins (about 1/4 mile) and I sleep.

Now here is the issue. At Inverness DVSA I start to get questioned about the vehicle movement because my card was pulled. I explain that it was private compound rather than a public road, and the truck moved 500 yards. My tacho is cleanotherwise, no infringements, and I even wrote on the print out that I moved the truck at 10.20pm because I was asked to to avoid any issues. next thing I know, I am being cautioned and offered a fine or a visit to the Procurator Fiscal for a driving infringement. Because I didn’t do a vehicle print out at 10.24 and sign it, apparently I am guilty of both “driving without the card in” and (because I put the card in at 5.45 am next day, the 4 mins interrupted may daily rest) not having taken a proper daily rest period. I thought they were winding me up until I was presented with the conditional offer form requesting a fine of £300!

My card was out, so there is no way I didn’t have at least 9 hours daily rest, so they have slapped me with the fine for "Fail to use tachograph record sheet or driver card - article 34(1) EU 165/2014, 19/07/2018 followed by the vehicle reg…

I said to the DVSA officer…Everything is legal, except this unknown infringement, can you not be leniant & issue me a warning? His reply actually made me think of Mr Mackay in Porridge. He said “The rules are there to be obeyed, we have the power to prosecute or issue fines, and that’s what we’ll be doing”

I won’t be paying this, my company will, but my question is this…my truck moved 500-600 yards 3 hours after my card was pulled, on private land. How is this prosecutable?

2

One for tachograph lol

3

Born Idle:
Suddenly, “what were you doing last Thursday at 10 20 pm?”

Think this bit tripped you up! Though must admit why did they think it was you at 10:20?

By your answer they must have understood you were still with vehicle hence the movement caused your problem

No matter if on private land, the issue was you were on rest and interrupted it then went back to work without full rest

Normally you could say I went home and vehicle moving wasn’t anything to do with me however you were on overnight and all movements were your responsibility. Somewhere (printout gave it away ?) you’ve admitted you moved it so yes infringement occurred

Harsh - yes but it happened unfortunately

.

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4

Born Idle:
I got a pull this week by the DVSA in Inverness. “We’ll just check your vehicle, and your tacho driver,and then you’ll be on your way”.
No problem. I keep it legal.

Suddenly, “what were you doing last Thursday at 10 20 pm?”
I was parked up in the compound at Hyde Park (BST concerts) collecting catering equipment, but had pulled the card at 7.10, walked out for a pint and a bit of a look around while the truck was being loaded. I had walked back at 10.30 pm & was sitting with a coffee when a traffic marshall approached & asked if I was staying the night? Yes mate, ok, but you can’t leave the truck here, follow me (walking speed) and you can park untill 7am. Cheers buddy, no worries.
He walks, I drive for 4 mins (about 1/4 mile) and I sleep.

Now here is the issue. At Inverness DVSA I start to get questioned about the vehicle movement because my card was pulled. I explain that it was private compound rather than a public road, and the truck moved 500 yards. My tacho is cleanotherwise, no infringements, and I even wrote on the print out that I moved the truck at 10.20pm because I was asked to to avoid any issues. next thing I know, I am being cautioned and offered a fine or a visit to the Procurator Fiscal for a driving infringement. Because I didn’t do a vehicle print out at 10.24 and sign it, apparently I am guilty of both “driving without the card in” and (because I put the card in at 5.45 am next day, the 4 mins interrupted may daily rest) not having taken a proper daily rest period. I thought they were winding me up until I was presented with the conditional offer form requesting a fine of £300!

My card was out, so there is no way I didn’t have at least 9 hours daily rest, so they have slapped me with the fine for "Fail to use tachograph record sheet or driver card - article 34(1) EU 165/2014, 19/07/2018 followed by the vehicle reg…

I said to the DVSA officer…Everything is legal, except this unknown infringement, can you not be leniant & issue me a warning? His reply actually made me think of Mr Mackay in Porridge. He said “The rules are there to be obeyed, we have the power to prosecute or issue fines, and that’s what we’ll be doing”

I won’t be paying this, my company will, but my question is this…my truck moved 500-600 yards 3 hours after my card was pulled, on private land. How is this prosecutable?

Not sure of the legality side of moving on private land, But I think you should of kept your story to yourself and not admit to anything that could drop you a fine. You should of said that a member of crew moved your truck for you. Never admit to anything that could drop you in it.

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5

My opinion would be it would be extremely difficult to argue the case as you have already admitted driving the vehicle without a card inserted / or recording it manually. Think of quarry drivers etc spending time off road everyday they can’t do so without recording it .
Dvsa officer will most likely be thinking to himself that you have tipped /loaded off card as such and are pulling a fast one .
Harsh it may be and doesn’t encourage anyone to do things correctly when 1 little blip results in a large fine , but I’ve a feeling the officer has come across this before and knew what to look for , although a little bit of leeway wouldn’t of harmed .

6

If on any journey you drive in-scope of EU regulations all driving in that journey is in-scope of EU regulations even if the driving is off-road.

You say that “My card was out, so there is no way I didn’t have at least 9 hours daily rest”, but they don’t know that you wasn’t working off the card, they only have your word for that, what they do know is that the vehicle was moved and you’ve admitted moving it, hence you never had a valid daily rest period.

It may seem a bit harsh but I’m afraid they’ve got you by the short and curlies, I’m afraid that without realising it you admitted committing an offence that they could take you to court for, as it is they’ve offered you a fixed penalty instead.

Sent from my mobile.

7

As above. You drove your vehicle during your daily rest. You were therefore at work. Doesn’t matter the reason why or whether it was 4 minutes. As has been mentioned it looks as dodgy as hell like you’ve pulled off a bay at a RDC and parked up.

8

Similar scenario…He could have been at a truckstop and moved it across the yard without a card in, to get away from the fridge motor who came in later that evening and parked next to him keeping him awake.

9

Why do you take your card out if on night out anyway ?
The few nights out I’ve done I’ve always left my card in to record the full rest period .

10

mickymidas:
Why do you take your card out if on night out anyway ?
The few nights out I’ve done I’ve always left my card in to record the full rest period .

Because it’s safer for a variety of reasons -

Some of us forget to check it’s on break every time we touch a window switch and need ignition etc.
Some of us use the act of pulling the card to indicate we have finished for the day and ‘please don’t bother me’
plus other reasons I can’t remember at this time in the morning…

I’ve done a fair few nights out now and always pull my card

11

mickymidas:
Why do you take your card out if on night out anyway ?
The few nights out I’ve done I’ve always left my card in to record the full rest period .

Yep, there is something wrong with this situation.
Clocked off and went to the pub, then drove minus card.

Then grassed himself to an enforcement officer.
Take the fine and keep your mouth shut in future.

12

If you had “left your keys with the loading crew” would there be this problem? “They moved it on private ground not me”.

Or since the vehicle was shunted “by the loaders”, would it be an invalid break anyhow due to having no hotel receipt and the bunk being in a moving vehicle??

Just wondering…

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13

He could’ve restarted the 9/11 off after moving it and lessened the severity

14

Or have double checked that he was ok to park up for the night where he was or if there was somewhere else they wanted him

15

You have admitted to moving vehicle without a card and also during your daily rest period … you also admitted to moving vehicle after drinking in the pub … lucky they aren’t prosecuting you for drink driving as well :laughing:
Should have just told them that the loading crew moved the truck.

16

So is one able to insist upon ‘trial by jury’ for unreasonable charges like this. To be followed up if found guilty by send me to jail then and let the taxpayer fork out £900 or whatever a day to keep me there?

17

When legally in control of a vehicle your driver card should be within the tachograph unit. Simple terms who has the keys. If the following morning when you inserted your card you manually entered rest or even if you didnt do any entry and just allowed your card to “assume” rest then its a false record, because you did do minimal work. Examiners prefer to issue FPN for insufficient daily rest then prosecute for a false record.
You do have scope if you wanted to challenge the FPNs in court the reason/mitigation would be on the lines of “due to necessity/ not within the spirit of the regulations” however, i would seek legal advice if you went down this option as the legal costs may outway the total FPNs.
Hopefully this helps you?

18

AndieHyde:

mickymidas:
Why do you take your card out if on night out anyway ?
The few nights out I’ve done I’ve always left my card in to record the full rest period .

Yep, there is something wrong with this situation.
Clocked off and went to the pub, then drove minus card.

Then grassed himself to an enforcement officer.
Take the fine and keep your mouth shut in future.

NEVER go guilty…mouth shut, say nothing… :wink:

19

With DVSA you’re guilty until YOU can prove you’re innocent,unfortunately for you this is not possible…whether it’s private land or not you told them you drove the wagon which interrupted your daily rest.

20

Born Idle:
I got a pull this week by the DVSA in Inverness. “We’ll just check your vehicle, and your tacho driver,and then you’ll be on your way”.
No problem. I keep it legal.

Suddenly, “what were you doing last Thursday at 10 20 pm?”
I was parked up in the compound at Hyde Park (BST concerts) collecting catering equipment, but had pulled the card at 7.10, walked out for a pint and a bit of a look around while the truck was being loaded. I had walked back at 10.30 pm & was sitting with a coffee when a traffic marshall approached & asked if I was staying the night? Yes mate, ok, but you can’t leave the truck here, follow me (walking speed) and you can park untill 7am. Cheers buddy, no worries.
He walks, I drive for 4 mins (about 1/4 mile) and I sleep.

Now here is the issue. At Inverness DVSA I start to get questioned about the vehicle movement because my card was pulled. I explain that it was private compound rather than a public road, and the truck moved 500 yards. My tacho is cleanotherwise, no infringements, and I even wrote on the print out that I moved the truck at 10.20pm because I was asked to to avoid any issues. next thing I know, I am being cautioned and offered a fine or a visit to the Procurator Fiscal for a driving infringement. Because I didn’t do a vehicle print out at 10.24 and sign it, apparently I am guilty of both “driving without the card in” and (because I put the card in at 5.45 am next day, the 4 mins interrupted may daily rest) not having taken a proper daily rest period. I thought they were winding me up until I was presented with the conditional offer form requesting a fine of £300!

My card was out, so there is no way I didn’t have at least 9 hours daily rest, so they have slapped me with the fine for "Fail to use tachograph record sheet or driver card - article 34(1) EU 165/2014, 19/07/2018 followed by the vehicle reg…

I said to the DVSA officer…Everything is legal, except this unknown infringement, can you not be leniant & issue me a warning? His reply actually made me think of Mr Mackay in Porridge. He said “The rules are there to be obeyed, we have the power to prosecute or issue fines, and that’s what we’ll be doing”

I won’t be paying this, my company will, but my question is this…my truck moved 500-600 yards 3 hours after my card was pulled, on private land. How is this prosecutable?

Id love to know how you got a £300 on the spot fine for driving without a card in and I had to appear at a magistrates court and pay a £776 fine & get a caution from the t/ c for driving without a card in :neutral_face: