One for ADR people!

[muckles]

dieseldave:

muckles:

matamoros:
In my opinion this highlights a serious flaw in the ADR training at present in that if you are not ADR trained how are you supposed to know the rules regarding quantities, packaging etc and in this case the rules for sea freight. I am sure there are unscrupulous people about that will feed you a line to get the stuff away and then deny all responsibility when the [zb] hits the fan.

I seem to remember being told that it’s not the drivers who is responsible for deciding if a load is ADR or not, even if they’re ADR trained, that why companies have DGSA’s.
A driver has to hold an ADR qualifications to know how to deal with the load once they’ve been informed its under ADR regs.

THIS^^

Every day of the week and twice on Sundays

Bloody hell Dave, something you’ve told me has gone in.

[matamoros]

muckles:

matamoros:
In my opinion this highlights a serious flaw in the ADR training at present in that if you are not ADR trained how are you supposed to know the rules regarding quantities, packaging etc and in this case the rules for sea freight. I am sure there are unscrupulous people about that will feed you a line to get the stuff away and then deny all responsibility when the [zb] hits the fan.

I seem to remember being told that it’s not the drivers who is responsible for deciding if a load is ADR or not, even if they’re ADR trained, that why companies have DGSA’s.
A driver has to hold an ADR qualifications to know how to deal with the load once they’ve been informed its under ADR regs.

Methinks you missed the point, I as a driver would not expect to make the decision but if the shipper makes a mistake or is deliberately deceptive , who gets prosecuted.

[dieseldave]

dieseldave:

Smoggie89:
Just after some info, we pickup containers from unilever leeds wich is full of deodorant (limited quantitys) we get given the stickers but told not to put them on u til we get to dock, reason being the load is not hazardous on the road but it is at sea, and if I put the stickers on and set out on the road the im accepting responsibility for it being ADR, even though the truck is not set up for ADR and I’m not ADR trained, just wondered if anyone could shed some light on this? Cheers

Hi Smoggie89,

The requirements for marking containers are quite easy to remember.

You need to mark a container carrying any amount of any dangerous goods on all four sides from start to finish of a journey.
That holds good no matter how the dangerous goods are packaged, so it includes carriage of Limited Quantities.
(Very rarely, a Special Provision may provide an exemption from this, but it’s not relevant here.)

The thing you’ve been told about not putting the placards on until you get to the docks doesn’t apply to containers, but may sometimes apply to tautliners, euroliners and box bodied trailers etc.

Now you’ve got the rules for containers sorted, we can now think about the vehicle.

This rule is quite simple too.

A vehicle whose authorised GVW is in excess of 12t needs markings on the front and rear when carrying more than 8t of goods packaged in Limited Quantities.

Dave’s making tip:

Count the vehicle and container as two separate ‘things’ and obey the rules for both.

Now put the container on the vehicle and you’re good to go.

So in truck driver terms , I need to put them on or not lol , …

I:
The requirements for marking containers are quite easy to remember.

You need to mark a container carrying any amount of any dangerous goods on all four sides from start to finish of a journey.
That holds good no matter how the dangerous goods are packaged, so it includes carriage of Limited Quantities.

So… yes mate, you need to put them on at the start of your journey.

Smoggie89:
I remember a driver saying something about the more than 8t and the vehicle needs stickers or summit , is it the same black/white placard or just the orange plates ? Sorry if I seem a bit “thick” lol

Yes mate, it can be LQ Placards (which some people call ‘stickers’ )

Here’s one we prepared earlier:

You’re not thick mate, and it’s probably confusing because so many people tell you different things.
It only seems complicated when other people complicate it (for themselves) and then try to explain it, so I’ve tried to write it clearly for you.

Just remember that the vehicle and the container are two separate ‘things.’
You need to obey the rules for both.
Now just imagine putting one of them on top of the other.

You’re only thick if your next question asks which one goes on top of the other.

[dieseldave]

matamoros:

muckles:

matamoros:
In my opinion this highlights a serious flaw in the ADR training at present in that if you are not ADR trained how are you supposed to know the rules regarding quantities, packaging etc and in this case the rules for sea freight. I am sure there are unscrupulous people about that will feed you a line to get the stuff away and then deny all responsibility when the [zb] hits the fan.

I seem to remember being told that it’s not the drivers who is responsible for deciding if a load is ADR or not, even if they’re ADR trained, that why companies have DGSA’s.
A driver has to hold an ADR qualifications to know how to deal with the load once they’ve been informed its under ADR regs.

Methinks you missed the point, I as a driver would not expect to make the decision but if the shipper makes a mistake or is deliberately deceptive , who gets prosecuted.

That’s a great question and easily answered… the consignor (= shipper) is responsible for this.
It gets even better for the carrier (= vehicle owner) because the carrier is entitled to rely on information provided by the consignor.

As already correctly mentioned, it’s not the driver’s problem… unless the driver is also the owner of the vehicle.

[dieseldave]

matamoros:
So I am a non ADR trained driver, I am aware that ADR regulations exist and fully aware of my responsibilities. I turn up to collect a load and notice some chemicals in packages amongst the load,the shipper makes the decision (or just lies), because it is their responsibility, that the packages do not come under ADR rules. Who is then prosecuted if the error(deception) is discovered?

It’s still the shipper mate, I answered in the post immediately above whilst you were typing.

[dieseldave]

Smoggie89:
I’ve never been shown/told how to deal with a problem if it occurs when carrying the box , is that upto the company to teach/show me or the shipping like (samskip)

Hi Smoggie89,

Yes mate, that kind of training is up to company policy to deal with, but there’s a proper legal requirement for ADR awareness training if dangerous goods are to be carried.

This applies to any/all dangerous goods.

[smoggie89]

dieseldave:

Smoggie89:
I’ve never been shown/told how to deal with a problem if it occurs when carrying the box , is that upto the company to teach/show me or the shipping like (samskip)

Hi Smoggie89,

Yes mate, that kind of training is up to company policy to deal with, but there’s a proper legal requirement for ADR awareness training if dangerous goods are to be carried.

This applies to any/all dangerous goods.

Thanks mate appreciate it, I was arguing with the planner saying they should be on when setting off from picking up th box, and he was saying not to put them on until they get to the dock and if there was an accident I would get done for not being ADR trained or the vehicle not being ADR equipped , I’ve been doing this for over a year and it was only Friday that I got told about this …

[dieseldave]

muckles:
I’m sure Dieseldave will give you the full explanation, but I think you’ll find it’s because ADR regulations are for road transport, ships come under a different set of regulations IMDG I think. The stickers you’ve been given are to comply with the shipping regulations not ADR, which I believe don’t require stickers.

Hi muckles,

The rules for marking containers are a bit different to the rules for marking vehicles, then there are the differences between the marking rules in ADR and IMDG to consider.

However, the rules for marking ISO containers when loaded with LQs are the same by both Road and Sea.

[smoggie89]

dieseldave:

muckles:
I’m sure Dieseldave will give you the full explanation, but I think you’ll find it’s because ADR regulations are for road transport, ships come under a different set of regulations IMDG I think. The stickers you’ve been given are to comply with the shipping regulations not ADR, which I believe don’t require stickers.

Hi muckles,

The rules for marking containers are a bit different to the rules for marking vehicles, then there are the differences between the marking rules in ADR and IMDG to consider.

However, the rules for marking ISO containers when loaded with LQs are the same by both Road and Sea.

What and who is meant to sort out ADR awareness ?

[dieseldave]

Smoggie89:

dieseldave:

Smoggie89:
I’ve never been shown/told how to deal with a problem if it occurs when carrying the box , is that upto the company to teach/show me or the shipping like (samskip)

Hi Smoggie89,

Yes mate, that kind of training is up to company policy to deal with, but there’s a proper legal requirement for ADR awareness training if dangerous goods are to be carried.

This applies to any/all dangerous goods.

Thanks mate appreciate it, I was arguing with the planner saying they should be on when setting off from picking up th box, and he was saying not to put them on until they get to the dock and if there was an accident I would get done for not being ADR trained or the vehicle not being ADR equipped , I’ve been doing this for over a year and it was only Friday that I got told about this …

Hi Smoggie89,

You’re correct and the planner is wrong… it’s that simple.

You do not need to be ADR trained to carry LQ in any amount.
The vehicle does not need ADR equipment when carrying LQs in any amount.

Given that the planner knows all about this ADR legal stuff
He’ll be aware that he needs ADR awareness training, which he clearly hasn’t had.

You now have checkmate on the planner methinks

[smoggie89]

dieseldave:

Smoggie89:

dieseldave:

Smoggie89:
I’ve never been shown/told how to deal with a problem if it occurs when carrying the box , is that upto the company to teach/show me or the shipping like (samskip)

Hi Smoggie89,

Yes mate, that kind of training is up to company policy to deal with, but there’s a proper legal requirement for ADR awareness training if dangerous goods are to be carried.

This applies to any/all dangerous goods.

Thanks mate appreciate it, I was arguing with the planner saying they should be on when setting off from picking up th box, and he was saying not to put them on until they get to the dock and if there was an accident I would get done for not being ADR trained or the vehicle not being ADR equipped , I’ve been doing this for over a year and it was only Friday that I got told about this …

Hi Smoggie89,

You’re correct and the planner is wrong… it’s that simple.

You do not need to be ADR trained to carry LQ in any amount.
The vehicle does not need ADR equipment when carrying LQs in any amount.

Given that the planner knows all about this ADR legal stuff
He’ll be aware that he needs ADR awareness training, which he clearly hasn’t had.

You now have checkmate on the planner methinks

Haha happy days , I said to him he has given me something to do and I’m glad I’m right lol cheers

[dieseldave]

Smoggie89:

dieseldave:

muckles:
I’m sure Dieseldave will give you the full explanation, but I think you’ll find it’s because ADR regulations are for road transport, ships come under a different set of regulations IMDG I think. The stickers you’ve been given are to comply with the shipping regulations not ADR, which I believe don’t require stickers.

Hi muckles,

The rules for marking containers are a bit different to the rules for marking vehicles, then there are the differences between the marking rules in ADR and IMDG to consider.

However, the rules for marking ISO containers when loaded with LQs are the same by both Road and Sea.

What and who is meant to sort out ADR awareness ?

Your company’s DGSA is responsible to advise your boss that ADR awareness training is needed, along with all the other necessary ADR compliance advice.

[smoggie89]

dieseldave:

Smoggie89:

dieseldave:

muckles:
I’m sure Dieseldave will give you the full explanation, but I think you’ll find it’s because ADR regulations are for road transport, ships come under a different set of regulations IMDG I think. The stickers you’ve been given are to comply with the shipping regulations not ADR, which I believe don’t require stickers.

Hi muckles,

The rules for marking containers are a bit different to the rules for marking vehicles, then there are the differences between the marking rules in ADR and IMDG to consider.

However, the rules for marking ISO containers when loaded with LQs are the same by both Road and Sea.

What and who is meant to sort out ADR awareness ?

Your company’s DGSA is responsible to advise your boss that ADR awareness training is needed, along with all the other necessary ADR compliance advice.

Happy days , just 1 more thing what/who is DGSA

[winseer]

Aluminium Trichloride has an exothermic reaction with Water.

This is also the bulk chemical active ingredient in many deodorants.

Ever wondered why it stung so much when you spray it on straight after getting out of the shower?

[kevmac47]

It is also mandatory that all labels/stickers are removed from a container if the box has been emptied. The fun bit is trying to get them off. I carried a steel scraper for this. We often got boxes from the US.with the labels right at the top of the box, the stickers/labels put on when the box was in a loading bay. Another challenge to get up there to remove them. Regards Kevmac 47.

[janos]

DGSA is your dangerous goods safety advisor.

Along with the cab full of ADR paraphenalia, I also carry a can of black spray paint along with a scraper. If stickers won’t budge with the scraper…spray and go.

[dieseldave]

Smoggie89:
Happy days , just 1 more thing what/who is DGSA

The letters DGSA stand for Dangerous Goods Safety Advisor.

To act as a DGSA, a person must have passed at least three proper written exams, which are quite difficult to pass within the time allowed.

A DGSA qualification is nothing to do with an ADR driver’s card, so it’s not something that an employed driver needs to worry about.

As a general rule… if a company is a consignor (= sender) of dangerous goods OR they carry dangerous goods (= carrier,) then UK law requires them to have a qualified DGSA whose job it is to monitor and advise the company on legal compliance matters to do with the carriage of dangerous goods by road.
There are some exemptions to this, but not many.

The company DGSA can be the boss himself, or it can be one of the office staff, or it can be an outsider acting as a consultant.

A properly qualified DGSA must be in possession of a valid DGSA certificate.