Oh no ! another legal or not

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Got tachograph analisis in the post today.

One infringement

2345 -2355 - other work - starting shift filling in crap

2355 - 0050 - POA - sitting waiting been told nothing happening till 1am

0050 - 0120 - other work - checking out truck, paper work etc…

0120 - 0400 - Driving - 2hrs 40mins

0400 - 0420 - Other work, unloading truck, then tail lift breaks

0420 - 0600 - POA been told to stay where i am, someone out to fix it at 6am

0600 - 0625 - Other work tail lfit sorted and finish delivery

0625 - 0700 - Driving 35mins

0700 - 0740 - Other work delviery

0740 - 0950 - Driving 2hrs 10mins

0950 - 1010 - Other work, finshing paper work handing in keys etc…

Totals

Other work - 2hrs 5mins
Driving - 5hrs 25mins
POA - 2hrs 35mins

The tachograph analisis people are saying i drove 5hrs 25mins without taking a break. Even though i have 1hr 40mins POA. I would usually also take a break but that morning had stuff to do when i got back so never bothered.

Are they right or as i suspect they are wrong.

Been given something to sign to acknowledge the infringement, but i dont want to acknowledge it if its not correct because i work for an agency on a long term contract. Every month tachograph infrigements are counted up and agency with best record gets first priority work wise on top of that drivers also get first priority depending on amount of infringements.

2

there right :smiley:

even though you took alot of poa you haven’t had a break (or put it on break).poa doesnt count as a break .

jon

3

no breaks :question:
Why not leave it on break anyway POA (fiddlers charter)

4

Had planned to stop about 0630 take a break at a decent place to get something to eat as well as the POA.

But somthing came up and wanted to get home.

I thought POA would put the driving time back to zero ■■?

The infringement they list is driving over 4hrs 30mins without taking any rest.

5

Why do drivers rely on POA as a break■■?

A Break is a Break

POA is POA

Other Work is Other Work

Driving is Driving

Quite easy to understand really,

POA is the biggest Con going, why sit on POA when your free to do as you want the same as you are when on break.

It would stop stupid incidents like this occuring

6

I believe that VOSA will consider a POA as a break for driving hour purposes

7

I believe they’re correct, POA doesn’t count as break so you’ve run over your driving time before taking a break.

stevel:
I believe that VOSA will consider a POA as a break for driving hour purposes

Vosa will consider the first 45 minutes of POA as break for a co-driver if you’re multi-manning, so long as the co-driver does no work.

8

An example that I use to tell my boss the difference between a break and a POA is ,(although I might have interpretted the law wrongly):

POA= waiting to be called to unload or load or for paperwork etc,etc.

Break= It’s my time so I could go to the cinema or watch the dogs etc,etc.

9

Ben9:
An example that I use to tell my boss the difference between a break and a POA is ,(although I might have interpretted the law wrongly):

POA= waiting to be called to unload or load or for paperwork etc,etc.

Sorry but legally if you’re doing paper work it should be recorded as “other work” not “POA”.

Ben9:
Break= It’s my time so I could go to the cinema or watch the dogs etc,etc.

Again sorry to be picky but you could only do those things if your boss agrees to it, a break is a period of time that you can use exclusively for recuperation, but you don’t need to be able to freely dispose of the time as with a daily or weekly rest period.

Having said that, probably best keep the boss in the dark about the break regulations :wink:

10

Did they not also give you an infringement under WTD breaks? You required a break of at least 15 minutes for the WTD at 08:20.

11

I WAS ALWAYS TOLD THAT POA WAS ONLY POA IF YOU KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN BEFORE IT HAPPENS IE KNOWING IT WILL TAKE 3 HOURS TO LOAD OR UNLOAD BEFORE YOU GET THERE OR IF YOU HAVE A BREAKDOWN AND ARE TOLD HOW LONG IT WILL BE WHILST SOMEONE CAN GET TO YOU . OBVIOUSLY IF YOU ARE DOING OTHER THINGS LIKE POLISHING YA WHEELS OR CLEANING YA WINDSCREEN AND MIRRORS THAT WILL STILL BE OTHER WORK . BUT THEN AGAIN MY SONS CALL ME A THICKET AND THEY MAY BE RIGHT AND I MAY BE TALKING CRAP !!!

12

matt f:
I WAS ALWAYS TOLD THAT POA WAS ONLY POA IF YOU KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN BEFORE IT HAPPENS IE KNOWING IT WILL TAKE 3 HOURS TO LOAD OR UNLOAD BEFORE YOU GET THERE OR IF YOU HAVE A BREAKDOWN AND ARE TOLD HOW LONG IT WILL BE WHILST SOMEONE CAN GET TO YOU . OBVIOUSLY IF YOU ARE DOING OTHER THINGS LIKE POLISHING YA WHEELS OR CLEANING YA WINDSCREEN AND MIRRORS THAT WILL STILL BE OTHER WORK . BUT THEN AGAIN MY SONS CALL ME A THICKET AND THEY MAY BE RIGHT AND I MAY BE TALKING CRAP !!!

Legally you should know in advance about how long you will be waiting, but not necessarily before you get there, it’s enough to be told how long you will be waiting when you arrive, or even just to know from previous experience.

Any chance you could turn the caps off on your keyboard :wink:

13

Coffeeholic:
Did they not also give you an infringement under WTD breaks? You required a break of at least 15 minutes for the WTD at 08:20.

LOL, you should be doing tacho analysis, you don’t miss anything :wink:

14

Coffeeholic:
Did they not also give you an infringement under WTD breaks? You required a break of at least 15 minutes for the WTD at 08:20.

I realise i should have taken the 15mins for the WTD.

But in terms of driving hours does POA count towards the 45min break after 4hrs 30mins driving.

If i had taken 15mins or 30mins at 0820 would that then be legal ?

15

Kenny1975:

Coffeeholic:
Did they not also give you an infringement under WTD breaks? You required a break of at least 15 minutes for the WTD at 08:20.

I realise i should have taken the 15mins for the WTD.

But in terms of driving hours does POA count towards the 45min break after 4hrs 30mins driving.

If i had taken 15mins or 30mins at 0820 would that then be legal ?

no poa is poa
and breaks are breaks but as long as you are not working you can put it on break for 45 but remember if you are parked up for 3 hours and put it on break for 45 then this will reduce your poa to 2 hours 15 minutes

16

POA is nothing to do with breaks unless your double manning as said (due to not being able to set Driver 2 to break while the truck is moving).

Whenever I am stopped and not doing anything, i’ll set it to break. The only time I use POA is if I want to take a split break due to wanting to reset my driving time at the right point if I know I can only get 30mins max in at the next drop, so after 15mins i’ll switch to POA to avoid a driving time reset. Also if I’m waiting for long periods (2hours+) i’ll sometimes switch to POA after the first hour just because.

17

POA was a 3 word sentence thought up by bureaucrat’s when they reailised how much it was going to cost for Transport workers to work a true 48hr week.
Never use it .!

18

Kenny1975:
But in terms of driving hours does POA count towards the 45min break after 4hrs 30mins driving.

No!!

19

Too late now, but you could have put in a manual entry saying that the PoA was an error and should have been break. Still not really legal, but would probably pass OK as in reality you’ve not exceeded your driving hours, just not recorded enough break. I never use POA; everything is either drive, break or other work. Unless you’re doing something (brewing coffee doesn’t count) relating to the job, not driving is a break.

20

Kenny1975:

Coffeeholic:
Did they not also give you an infringement under WTD breaks? You required a break of at least 15 minutes for the WTD at 08:20.

I realise i should have taken the 15mins for the WTD.

But in terms of driving hours does POA count towards the 45min break after 4hrs 30mins driving.

If i had taken 15mins or 30mins at 0820 would that then be legal ?

Fifteen minutes would have been legal for the WTD at that point but you would then need another break at 08:55 latest for the tacho rules. This would have also satisfied the WTD as you required 45 minutes of break for those regulations for a shift of 10 hours 25 minutes.