^^^^
Dont know what Mr VOSA’s stance on that would be 
Edit: Where did that previous post go to 
Simon:
robroy:
commonrail:
robroy:
It’s amazing how many drivers are either thick, brainwashed, or both, and genuinely believe that the 9/10 hrs driving, the 9/11 hrs off, and the 13/15 hr spreadover are targets rather than limits. You always hear “I’ve only got one 10 left”… You haven’t got anything “left” you have one other 10 AVAILABLE IF you need it.yes, ok I was being a bit silly.
it
s just this bit Im struggling with.you see,i dont really have much of a say how long my days are.were pretty much flat out atm,and if the work needs doing…then sometimes you have to push on.
as for “only having one ten left”…its just a statement,isnt it?Yeh it is, but some DO think, or appear to think it’s compulsory rather than an option.
Some folk say
“I’ve only got one 10 left”…
Some say
“one other 10 AVAILABLE”
However they say it, they mean exactly the same thing. Don’t get yer knickers in a twist about semantics, it doesn’t really matter.
Yeh it does sound pedantic…but only because of .the way you have edited it 
.as you have now changed the intended context in doing so, which was the fact that some assume that limits are targets.
still struggling robroy…you say limits aren’t targets,but surely you do what you can in the time you have left/available
if I get back in the yard with time on my card…and the boss gives me a “runner”,my target will be to get as far as possible within that time.
am I thick or brainwashed?
if there is nothing to do,he`ll send me home 
commonrail:
still struggling robroy…you say limits aren’t targets,but surely you do what you can in the time you have left/available
Yeh, maybe so, but that is not the same as actually HAVING to, as some believe, or HAVING to do 2x10s a week, or HAVING to do 3 reduced rests every week even if feeling tired, is it.
ie limits and targets.
another thing
I reduce 3 times most weeks,but that doesn’t mean I max my hours out.
13 hours and one minute worked counts as a reducer…as does 10 hours 59 mins rest 
Back in about 2007/08 I was doing a lot of Estron trailers out of Immingham and I knew another guy on for Estron, from a different company to myself who im my eyes was the very epitome of a work shy truck driver. We often had to wait for trailers to come off the boat so we’d drop a trailer in the docks the night before at whatever time and the next one wouldn’t come off the boat until the following morning, any time between 8am and midday depending where on the boat it was. This oxygen thief always used to wake up at 5am, put his tacho in, put it on crossed hammers and then go back to bed until 8am so that he always had very short days of actual work. At the time there was a great sense of camaraderie with us all on that job and we’d always help each other strap loads down in the steel works and never see a fellow colleague struggle to do a job alone, except for this guy, he’d accept your help, then as soon as his trailer was all put back together he’d be in his cab, engine fired up and away to the docks so he could toss it off yet again. It didn’t take us long to cotton on to his ways and he never got any help but his work ethic disgusted me none the less.
I messed up yesterday big style as my tacho went crazy at me 1.5 hours intor driving saying I’d one 4.5 hours driving and needed a break. Still had 20 minutes to drive until my first drop…so I ignored it, had to get the delivery there first and I knew I had done nothing wrong, as I’d only been in work 3 hours! 
When I got to the drop, I couldn’t get the bloody thing to print, as it had not paper. Never loaded one before, called my old man too busy, called a friend no answer, and then another no answer and then found my final phone a friend who was working and also used a Siemens. Good times
Worked out I was feeding the paper the wrong way round in the printer Got it working paper came thorough, no print out, oops paper round the wrong way 
This was embarrasing on the phone with someone off here.
Got it working…what had ■■■ head done here. I entered my manual entry as midnight when I’d actually started at 7am. For some reason it reckoned I had done 4.5 hours of driving though, still can’t explain that as I had only done 1.5 hours?! 
Forgot about it carried on with rest of the day as normal, what’s the point in worrying.
Anyway handed in tacho for downloading at end day no infringements reported. Gave them a print out anyway, signed explaining start time wrong as manual entry done wrong and kept a copy for my diary, signed.
I expect no repecussions from VOSA if pulled over though. Job done to the letter of the law in my opinion, my mistake but not a true illegal one. 
As you can see when I genuinely started work from it and card entry time.
Annoying thing is, it’s just before I start my first full time job and would look to an employer I don’t know what I am doing…shhhhhh keep it a secret, as sometimes I don’t 
C
robinhood_1984:
weeto:
I think that has become quite common with some employers, and probably the reason more and more are copying JOHNY, and parking on the hard shoulder to avoid them.
Can’t really blame them really, a £30 fine or loss of job for to many infringements is a no brainer choice.Exactly. Its a ridiculous position we’ve all sleep walked in to. Once upon a time the job was about driving a truck and delivering goods. Now all that comes secondary to the constant thought, stress and pratting about to appease Brussels spy in the cab. To think that you could lose your job because of two “infringements” is ridiculous when they could be in the nature of a few minutes. Its just taken me longer than that to microwave my tea in the truck, yet in the UK such small times could ruin peoples lives. I agree with having drivers hours rules but I’m 100% against them in their current form and how they’re applied and enforced. Its complete over kill and making the job ten times more stressful than it ever needs to be.
I’ve just driven 6 and a half hours straight, in the UK I’d risk losing my job for such a thing, here its perfectly fine, I’m much less stressed, less tired and actually do more work. In the UK/EU drivers are forced to do this, that and the other, do much less work as a result, are more stressed and are often to be seen on here worried sick about what will happen to them if the tacho ■■■■’s find out they’ve done 4:36 driving or something as equally stupid and unimportant.
That’s one of the best pieces I’ve read on here as are your other posts on this thread.
You choose when you want to stop for a break in the day if you are tired, not when the tacho says you should. I’d much rather crack on, get the day done & clock off earlier. I’ve driven tired & been totally legal in the past, not that often because I’m not ■■■■■■■■ but I’ve done it to get the job done to comply with tacho rules.
The problem with the 4.5 hour rule is as our roads get more & more congested we get less & less done & have to get close to the limits. I’d much rather see a 9 hour daily driving limit here where you can take a break when it suits you throughout the day as long as you show an hour say split in 2 halves. The daily rest rules can stay the same.
Constantine:
I entered my manual entry as midnight when I’d actually started at 7am. For some reason it reckoned I had done 4.5 hours of driving though, still can’t explain that as I had only done 1.5 hours?!
I am assuming that a rest period had not been recorded so it added the 3 hours from the previous shift to the 1.5 you did on this shift
Good job you did manual entries with full explanations as it would have had a load of different infringements
Conor:
Rhythm Thief:
Robinhood’s point about us all getting stressed about going two minutes over our driving time is a good one though. When you remember that the whole point of the driver’s hours rules was to ensure drivers were well rested and less stressed, it makes you laugh. .Do you know how to avoid getting stressed? Stop earlier. Nothing in law says you have to drive right up to the wire. If you think it might be tight, pull over when you get close to the time even if that’s 15-20 minutes before you run out. If the load doesn’t get there on time then so be it. The sky will not fall down, the world will not come to an end just because you didn’t make the delivery time.
If drivers are getting stressed out about it it is only because they themselves are creating the situation by getting stressed out over a number printed on a delivery note.
You cannot be legally sacked for being late for a delivery because you had to take a statutory break no matter what the TM says.
Meanwhile in the real world…
I think as well, my main gripe is it’s just so open to interpretation, let’s say you go 15 mins or half an hour over 4.5 for whatever multitude reason any tramper is aware of once a month or three say, you may get a fixed penalty off one, you may get a nice one say, don’t matter drive, I can tell you’re not a reckless nut bar, cheerio, have a nice day.
The first one might also report your firm (my firm) to the higher ups for an ■■■■ inspection, then you’re in the cross hairs & they hound you for every little thing till you pack up. There’s always little things at every firm…
ROG:
Constantine:
I entered my manual entry as midnight when I’d actually started at 7am. For some reason it reckoned I had done 4.5 hours of driving though, still can’t explain that as I had only done 1.5 hours?!I am assuming that a rest period had not been recorded so it added the 3 hours from the previous shift to the 1.5 you did on this shift
Good job you did manual entries with full explanations as it would have had a load of different infringements
Not sure Rog about that either.
Hadn’t worked in my other job or agency work for two weeks, as I’d been on C+E training and holiday, so my rest time shouldn’t have been a problem I’d had 327 hours and 21 minutes rest!!!
I think that should’ve counted as adequate weekly and daily rest
■■■■ it, it was a silly mistake and if Mr VOSA can’t see that, well I don’t believe they couldn’t. As I am religious with frisbees to record my other work too, so I am not trying to con anyone!
C
If that was your first shift after 327 hours off then its got me as to why as well
Conor:
They’re only stressed because they have created the situation that causes them to be.
It’s the law that creates the situation, relax the law relive the stress, it’s too rigid.
Yep it definitely was my very first shift in 327 hours, promise you Rog, I’d never lie about something potentially serious for my new job.
As I was definitely on holiday and Class 1 training in Leicester, Mansfield, back to Chelmsford for a day and then onto London and Oxford for a week, never near a lorry in that time.
Oh well its buggered the card for a while, but when I get on the full time job it’ll be wipped clean in months once I am out there driving for real. I’ll keep my printout.
Just a bit embarrassing when they do a download for the first time that I have a “few” infringements
That’ll teach me to rush my manual entry and not have the interior lights on to see what I am doing
What a ■■■■ I am!
Would you keep the printout for longer than the stipulated minimum legal duration as this one could be quite serious by me not knowing how much I had ■■■■■■ up the manual entry? I feel I should only keep it with my tachos for the minimum amount of time required and not a day longer?!
C
Constantine:
Oh well its buggered the card for a while, but when I get on the full time job it’ll be wipped clean in months once I am out there driving for real. I’ll keep my printout.
C
Mine is still holding data from June 2012
Going to check the cards detail tomorrow to see what I ■■■■■■ up on on weekend
A friend of here is going to let me see what’s actually on the card first thing tomorrow.
Oh well it can only count as a crime against humanity for the legal defined period Ill just try and be good during that time and not do any deliveries across the water etc…( to the Isle of Wight )
C
robroy:
Simon:
robroy:
commonrail:
robroy:
It’s amazing how many drivers are either thick, brainwashed, or both, and genuinely believe that the 9/10 hrs driving, the 9/11 hrs off, and the 13/15 hr spreadover are targets rather than limits. You always hear “I’ve only got one 10 left”… You haven’t got anything “left” you have one other 10 AVAILABLE IF you need it.yes, ok I was being a bit silly.
it
s just this bit Im struggling with.you see,i dont really have much of a say how long my days are.were pretty much flat out atm,and if the work needs doing…then sometimes you have to push on.
as for “only having one ten left”…its just a statement,isnt it?Yeh it is, but some DO think, or appear to think it’s compulsory rather than an option.
Some folk say
“I’ve only got one 10 left”…
Some say
“one other 10 AVAILABLE”
However they say it, they mean exactly the same thing. Don’t get yer knickers in a twist about semantics, it doesn’t really matter.
Yeh it does sound pedantic…but only because of .the way you have edited it
Only because of the way I edited it ?
You yourself had already quoted the same part of your post that I quoted.
So where the [zb] do you get it that I’d changed the context ?
It is you who thinks they consider it a target.
However they say it they mean exactly the same thing. Of the 2 x 10 hour drives available to me, I’ve used 1 so only have 1 left. Very few people are going to say things in exactly the same way as you, or probably me. They are talking to truck drivers who they assume will understand the basics of the drivers hours rules. It is therefore unnecessary to go into a detailed breakdown of precisely what is meant, using the wording of The Drivers Hours and Tacho Rules book. You should know what they mean anyway. If you interpret that saying it one way implies it’s a target and saying it another way does not, that’s entirely down to you.
Simon:
robroy:
Simon:
robroy:
commonrail:
robroy:
It’s amazing how many drivers are either thick, brainwashed, or both, and genuinely believe that the 9/10 hrs driving, the 9/11 hrs off, and the 13/15 hr spreadover are targets rather than limits. You always hear “I’ve only got one 10 left”… You haven’t got anything “left” you have one other 10 AVAILABLE IF you need it.yes, ok I was being a bit silly.
it
s just this bit Im struggling with.you see,i dont really have much of a say how long my days are.were pretty much flat out atm,and if the work needs doing…then sometimes you have to push on.
as for “only having one ten left”…its just a statement,isnt it?Yeh it is, but some DO think, or appear to think it’s compulsory rather than an option.
Some folk say
“I’ve only got one 10 left”…
Some say
“one other 10 AVAILABLE”
However they say it, they mean exactly the same thing. Don’t get yer knickers in a twist about semantics, it doesn’t really matter.
Yeh it does sound pedantic…but only because of .the way you have edited it
Only because of the way I edited it ?
You yourself had already quoted the same part of your post that I quoted.
So where the [zb] do you get it that I’d changed the context ?
It is you who thinks they consider it a target.
However they say it they mean exactly the same thing. Of the 2 x 10 hour drives available to me, I’ve used 1 so only have 1 left. Very few people are going to say things in exactly the same way as you, or probably me. They are talking to truck drivers who they assume will understand the basics of the drivers hours rules. It is therefore unnecessary to go into a detailed breakdown of precisely what is meant, using the wording of The Drivers Hours and Tacho Rules book. You should know what they mean anyway. If you interpret that saying it one way implies it’s a target and saying it another way does not, that’s entirely down to you.
The context was changed by editing my full post and omitting the part which was basically the main point I evidently failed to put across clearly.
As we appear to be as you put it getting into semantics it might be just better leaving it there.