They’re only stressed because they have created the situation that causes them to be.
Rhythm Thief:
When you remember that the whole point of the driver’s hours rules was to ensure drivers were well rested and less stressed, it makes you laugh.
I agree, the intended safety aspect becomes a paradox when you get drivers panicking when they are on 8hrs 55, and rushing around like a headless chicken to find somewhere to park up 
, which is anything but safe.
It’s amazing how many drivers are either thick, brainwashed, or both, and genuinely believe that the 9/10 hrs driving, the 9/11 hrs off, and the 13/15 hr spreadover are targets rather than limits. You always hear “I’ve only got one 10 left”… You haven’t got anything “left” you have one other 10 AVAILABLE IF you need it.
Conor:
They’re only stressed because they have created the situation that causes them to be.
Not always so. I’ve lost count of the many times where completely against my will, in the UK I’ve become stuck in a traffic jam with more than two hours of driving left, moving forward a few feet at a time and 3 miles later the tacho is flashing 4:15. Or when you get kept on a bay etc for several hours, or in the steel works with your trailer stripped out, roof open, half a load of steel on and 7 hours after you arrive, you’ve got 10 minutes left on a 15 hour spread. These are not problems caused by the driver, they are problems caused by everyone but the driver, and its only the driver who later suffers the consequences. This idea that drivers are fools and don’t bother to try and find parking until 5 minutes before their time really does not do the situation any justice. I’m no fool Mr Conor, I know that I can drive a truck and use a tacho every bit as well as you can, after all, I’ve never had a single infringement despite running out all available hours in every job I’ve had, usually averaging 1000km a week more than my colleagues, most of whom receive 5-10 infringements per week, but that does not mean that an electronic device that records by the minute is appropriate for road transport when the variables in travel time or being stuck at a customer, in a cattle pen, without your keys are the fault of the driver or are in any way within his control.
robroy:
Rhythm Thief:
When you remember that the whole point of the driver’s hours rules was to ensure drivers were well rested and less stressed, it makes you laugh.I agree, the intended safety aspect becomes a paradox when you get drivers panicking when they are on 8hrs 55, and rushing around like a headless chicken to find somewhere to park up
It’s amazing how many drivers are either thick, brainwashed, or both, and genuinely believe that the 9/10 hrs driving, the 9/11 hrs off, and the 13/15 hr spreadover are targets rather than limits. You always hear “I’ve only got one 10 left”… You haven’t got anything “left” you have one other 10 AVAILABLE IF you need it.
so what do you do then?
just do a couple of hours…and say,■■■■ it…that`ll do me for today 
Conor:
They’re only stressed because they have created the situation that causes them to be.
What a load of bloody rubbish,the driver ain’t ringing himself every 2 mins asking this,that and nothing,the driver isn’t the one putting memo,s on boards saying don’t do this ,don’t do that,or this that etc,the driver isn’t the one handing out threatening letters.
Zb me they ring you when you stop for the toilet,why stopped,couldn’t you go before u left,can’t you wait till you get back,hauling you up the office as they deem 15 min stop for a dump to long 
,
And you say it’s the driver who created this situation,Christ you can have a dump in bloody peace these days,a natural body function and there on your back saying you need to get it done quicker,one even suggested you should do one before you leave for work
I always enjoyed my job,now I bloody dread it,the phone rings and I think what do you bloody want now
When stobarts took over they said you know your job just get on with it,now they think I need bloody baby sitting,my ■■■ wiping,well in saying that the time there giving me to have a dump I won’t have time to wipe my bloody ■■■,it’s not us it them.
They won’t bloody leave us alone,all the bloody time,every bloody minute,every bloody second,leave me alone ,zb right off
commonrail:
robroy:
Rhythm Thief:
When you remember that the whole point of the driver’s hours rules was to ensure drivers were well rested and less stressed, it makes you laugh.I agree, the intended safety aspect becomes a paradox when you get drivers panicking when they are on 8hrs 55, and rushing around like a headless chicken to find somewhere to park up
It’s amazing how many drivers are either thick, brainwashed, or both, and genuinely believe that the 9/10 hrs driving, the 9/11 hrs off, and the 13/15 hr spreadover are targets rather than limits. You always hear “I’ve only got one 10 left”… You haven’t got anything “left” you have one other 10 AVAILABLE IF you need it.so what do you do then?
just do a couple of hours…and say,[zb] it…that`ll do me for today
Theres always going to be an element of chance. My most common run from Canada is down the eastern seaboard of the US to New York City and beyond. From the border its 5 hours drive out an an 11 allowed in the US to the southern end of the state of Maine and a large truckstop at Kittery. From here to NYC, which is another 5(ish) hours there is very very limited parking and because all of that area is as densely populated and congested as the UK, it means that after 5 or 6pm parking can often be absolutely impossible, sometimes you’re lucky, other times not. Of course you cannot realistically stop in most situations having done less than 50% less than your daily driving allowance, but if you don’t there is a good possibility that all rest areas and truckstops beyond Kittery will be full, sometimes so full that you can’t actually drive through them because some idiot has abandoned his truck blocking the whole thing off and by the time you’ve got past NYC to more predictable parking facilities, you have exceeded your driving time, not by much, but exceeded none the less and while this doesn’t matter one bit on a paper log book, because you just record what you want, on a digital tacho or electronic log book you’ve committed an offence and then its entirely down to the discretion of the DOT officer whether they want to fine you or not. I’m a human being, not a light bulb, a truck is a large object that cannot be folded up and put in to a box at night, it has to have physical space to park and I seriously resent being criminalised for this situation. I’m not reckless, I don’t drive day and night but there are very good and valid reasons why sometimes its beyond a drivers control. A prime example of this would be for any truck leaving Dover with less than 3 or 4 hours to spare, parking is very limited, costs a fortune, most companies dont pay for parking so he’d actually have to stay in Calais, effectively doing half a days work, just in case. I dont think that’s a realistic expectation on a driver, or for a company who has to make a profit to survive, we all have to do our bit and do so much within reason and my own personal opinion that parking up after only doing 50% or less of your available hours is not a reasonable demand or expectation. Obviously you have to make an effort to park up before your time is up, not 5 minutes before, thats asking for trouble, but parking 5 hours early is just as silly.
commonrail:
robroy:
Rhythm Thief:
When you remember that the whole point of the driver’s hours rules was to ensure drivers were well rested and less stressed, it makes you laugh.I agree, the intended safety aspect becomes a paradox when you get drivers panicking when they are on 8hrs 55, and rushing around like a headless chicken to find somewhere to park up
It’s amazing how many drivers are either thick, brainwashed, or both, and genuinely believe that the 9/10 hrs driving, the 9/11 hrs off, and the 13/15 hr spreadover are targets rather than limits. You always hear “I’ve only got one 10 left”… You haven’t got anything “left” you have one other 10 AVAILABLE IF you need it.so what do you do then?
just do a couple of hours…and say,[zb] it…that`ll do me for today
Sorry bud, heres me thinking we were having a sensible discussion, what am I like 
If you ARE being serious I think that both options are equally as bloody stupid.
There is one thing being caught out with 8hrs 55 after a hold up, but doing it daily and parking in the first unsuitable lay by… cos you can’t be arsed to take 15 mins to find a suitable spot, is just ■■■■ poor driver planning, end of.
robroy:
It’s amazing how many drivers are either thick, brainwashed, or both, and genuinely believe that the 9/10 hrs driving, the 9/11 hrs off, and the 13/15 hr spreadover are targets rather than limits. You always hear “I’ve only got one 10 left”… You haven’t got anything “left” you have one other 10 AVAILABLE IF you need it.
yes, ok I was being a bit silly.
its just this bit Im struggling with.you see,i dont really have much of a say how long my days are.were pretty much flat out atm,and if the work needs doing…then sometimes you have to push on.
as for “only having one ten left”…its just a statement,isnt it?
commonrail:
robroy:
It’s amazing how many drivers are either thick, brainwashed, or both, and genuinely believe that the 9/10 hrs driving, the 9/11 hrs off, and the 13/15 hr spreadover are targets rather than limits. You always hear “I’ve only got one 10 left”… You haven’t got anything “left” you have one other 10 AVAILABLE IF you need it.yes, ok I was being a bit silly.
it
s just this bit Im struggling with.you see,i dont really have much of a say how long my days are.were pretty much flat out atm,and if the work needs doing…then sometimes you have to push on.
as for “only having one ten left”…its just a statement,isnt it?
Yeh it is, but some DO think, or appear to think it’s compulsory rather than an option.
for instance…i parked up last night with 10 mins duty time left.i could have parked up 30 mins earlier…on an industrial estate,but why should I?
I don`t give a ■■■■ about tacho rules,when my own personal safety is jeopardised.
I don’t think drivers are obsessed with the tachograph, what they are obsessed about are company infringements. VOSA are not bogeymen and are not hidden behind every tree. A few minutes over to find a parking place isn’t a hanging offence, they allow for it in article 12. The rules are flexible enough to let the driver decide where and when to park up, at the end of the day or week, that is the drivers responsibility. I always preferred working later and getting a lay in than being parked up at 4pm and having to start work in the small hours, other drivers prefer an early start and early finish. Our present rules allow this.
Born Idle:
I think the 4.5 hours rule is fine. I’ve been driving on tachos since 1985 and it works for me. I know the rules, and try not to bend them. Occasionally I have to infringe, but I’m ok with that as is my TM and VOSA because they both accept that [zb] happens. Why would anyone want to drive 6 hours without a coffee/toilet/stretch yer legs break anyway?
And 4:40 driving should be ok so you can get to your favorite/regular cafe after being stuck in a traffic jam, instead of having to stop short in a poxy layby.
writing on a print out to that effect should be just as plausable excuse as went over to get to the closest safe parking after getting caught in traffic!!
weeto:
And 4:40 driving should be ok so you can get to your favorite/regular cafe after being stuck in a traffic jam, instead of having to stop short in a poxy layby.
writing on a print out to that effect should be just as plausable excuse as went over to get to the closest safe parking after getting caught in traffic!!
No it shouldn’t, you’re a truck driving animal and should do as you’re told and stay to the rigid rules your betters have provided for you. You don’t deserve to park at a cafe, or a place with showers or toilets if you’ve had the audacity to be so insubordinate as to exceed your driving time, you should and must behave like the pig that you are, get down on the ground and much on some road side grass, and crap in situ. As for showers at night, they’re for civilised people who live in semi-detached houses, drive cars and work 9-5 in an office and perhaps convicted criminals in prision, but not truck drivers if the tacho says no.
robinhood_1984:
weeto:
And 4:40 driving should be ok so you can get to your favorite/regular cafe after being stuck in a traffic jam, instead of having to stop short in a poxy layby.
writing on a print out to that effect should be just as plausable excuse as went over to get to the closest safe parking after getting caught in traffic!!No it shouldn’t, you’re a truck driving animal and should do as you’re told and stay to the rigid rules your betters have provided for you. You don’t deserve to park at a cafe, or a place with showers or toilets if you’ve had the audacity to be so insubordinate as to exceed your driving time, you should and must behave like the pig that you are, get down on the ground and much on some road side grass, and crap in situ. As for showers at night, they’re for civilised people who live in semi-detached houses, drive cars and work 9-5 in an office and perhaps convicted criminals in prision, but not truck drivers if the tacho says no.
Yeah right! haha.
robroy:
commonrail:
robroy:
It’s amazing how many drivers are either thick, brainwashed, or both, and genuinely believe that the 9/10 hrs driving, the 9/11 hrs off, and the 13/15 hr spreadover are targets rather than limits. You always hear “I’ve only got one 10 left”… You haven’t got anything “left” you have one other 10 AVAILABLE IF you need it.yes, ok I was being a bit silly.
it
s just this bit Im struggling with.you see,i dont really have much of a say how long my days are.were pretty much flat out atm,and if the work needs doing…then sometimes you have to push on.
as for “only having one ten left”…its just a statement,isnt it?Yeh it is, but some DO think, or appear to think it’s compulsory rather than an option.
Some folk say
“I’ve only got one 10 left”…
Some say
“one other 10 AVAILABLE”
However they say it, they mean exactly the same thing. Don’t get yer knickers in a twist about semantics, it doesn’t really matter.
I’m not obbsessed with the tacho but I hate the stupid fines. Name one other work where you have to pay the half the salary for working 4 minutes over or even loose your income for a couple of months.
Swedish police wanted to give me 8000sek for taking 9h rest, 9h45min to be exact (argued I should have had a 11h, didn’t help a thing that I had tried to compensate the next night by taking a 14h rest) 11h is waaay to long if you ask me. 8h would be enough. other thing was I had 91h in 2 weeks.
Had to argue with them in 1½h before they finally riped the ticket. I missed my unloading time, was home a day later, 5 or 6 days away from home why shold they care■■? But didn’t have to give away 8000sek for 2 silly things that had no other meaning than taking my salary away.
The only thing they cared about was silly driving time, not a single ■■■■ was given to the truck and it’s saftey
Also had a big argument about using OUT since Swedish police suddenly had decided to read that law differently than whats teched without a single announcement in any papers. Just so they can write out more fines. Tacho for designed for the driver? not in the world I live in at least.
Icee:
I’m not obbsessed with the tacho but I hate the stupid fines. Name one other work where you have to pay the half the salary for working 4 minutes over or even loose your income for a couple of months.Swedish police wanted to give me 8000sek for taking 9h rest, 9h45min to be exact (argued I should have had a 11h, didn’t help a thing that I had tried to compensate the next night by taking a 14h rest) 11h is waaay to long if you ask me. 8h would be enough. other thing was I had 91h in 2 weeks.
Had to argue with them in 1½h before they finally riped the ticket. I missed my unloading time, was home a day later, 5 or 6 days away from home why shold they care■■? But didn’t have to give away 8000sek for 2 silly things that had no other meaning than taking my salary away.
The only thing they cared about was silly driving time, not a single [zb] was given to the truck and it’s saftey
Also had a big argument about using OUT since Swedish police suddenly had decided to read that law differently than whats teched without a single announcement in any papers. Just so they can write out more fines. Tacho for designed for the driver? not in the world I live in at least.
If you were already parked and then chose to move off early you cant really complain when you get caught, but 8000SEK = £770 is completely over the top in my opinion when 9 hours and 45 minutes is in no way a recklessly short period of time to have had off. I’d expect drivers who’ve driven 10 hours, then had 4 hours off, then driven another 10 to be targetted but this heavy handed approach hitting all offences, even minor ones with a large Pound, Euro or Krona shaped sledge hammer is totally wrong in my opinion.
I’m surprised they ripped the fine up though, how did you manage that? and what does OUT stand for?
robinhood_1984:
Icee:
I’m not obbsessed with the tacho but I hate the stupid fines. Name one other work where you have to pay the half the salary for working 4 minutes over or even loose your income for a couple of months.Swedish police wanted to give me 8000sek for taking 9h rest, 9h45min to be exact (argued I should have had a 11h, didn’t help a thing that I had tried to compensate the next night by taking a 14h rest) 11h is waaay to long if you ask me. 8h would be enough. other thing was I had 91h in 2 weeks.
Had to argue with them in 1½h before they finally riped the ticket. I missed my unloading time, was home a day later, 5 or 6 days away from home why shold they care■■? But didn’t have to give away 8000sek for 2 silly things that had no other meaning than taking my salary away.
The only thing they cared about was silly driving time, not a single [zb] was given to the truck and it’s saftey
Also had a big argument about using OUT since Swedish police suddenly had decided to read that law differently than whats teched without a single announcement in any papers. Just so they can write out more fines. Tacho for designed for the driver? not in the world I live in at least.
If you were already parked and then chose to move off early you cant really complain when you get caught, but 8000SEK = £770 is completely over the top in my opinion when 9 hours and 45 minutes is in no way a recklessly short period of time to have had off. I’d expect drivers who’ve driven 10 hours, then had 4 hours off, then driven another 10 to be targetted but this heavy handed approach hitting all offences, even minor ones with a large Pound, Euro or Krona shaped sledge hammer is totally wrong in my opinion.
I’m surprised they ripped the fine up though, how did you manage that? and what does OUT stand for?
9h driven, not even driven a single 10h but if I wanted to be able to catch ferry 2 days later it required me to not take any longer rest than 9.45 or I wouldn’t been able to unload and load again that day. If I had missed the ferry would have had to sit in the harbor for 24h. How fun is that? And since you are allowed to have some 9h rests, I could understand I only had 9h and no 11h but it was ONE! in a month.
I used a lot of arguments, started with one guy and ended with 3 policemen and a big discussion. Not a single nasty word was used and I was determent to go away without a ticket.
Can’t find anything about OUT in English. But it’s a more advanced version of the ferry/train mode that you could! use for terminals, service work and so on but not any more according to Swedish police.
Driving is fun especially in the winter but EU has destroyed it completely and I understand why there are mostly eastern Europeans driving today. Anyone with an IQ higher than 10 and possibility to have a real education would never start doing this thing today. It’s to over regulated. Even more sadly is you can’t even have lunch with a friend anymore because you might ■■■■ up your driving time, can’t even wait on a guy that is half an hour behind because of how the rules are set.
I can’t say that trying to stay in the regs isn’t something that I ignore, but I’ve I don’t think I’d lose sleep over it.
I’m also not sure where this VOSA bogyman thing comes from not my experience they seem reasonable to deal with provided you’re reasonable with them.
I’ve Just looked at my copy of guide to fixed penalties from VOSA.
It does state that driving upto 1 hour over driving times is a £60 fine, it increases after that, but it also states as guidence VOSA examiners will allow 15 minutes period of grace, as long as you don’t make a habit of it. Obviously if you treat them like [zb] then they might apply the letter of the law. Most of the stories about VOSA seem to be mmtm and are quickly discredited.
As for large logistics companies with their analysis and only allowed so many infringements, well not had much experience of that and when I have I told them why I’ve stopped and they can accept it or not.
But I’m in a nice position that I don’t have to worry about paying a mortgage or keeping a roof over a wife and kids. I can see that for somebody worried about keeping in work this could be stressful.
Is it now £100 up from £60 ?
I think all the fines went up recently