I bought an 18T Plant Truck with crane a month or so back to carry my plant and machinery to work on my house in Portugal. I believed that because of the wholly private use that I didnt require an O licence. I was advised by a driver/operator friend that I needed a restricted and as plans were already afoot for the use of this truck I made my application along with the extra money for an interim.
So, ferry booked, container filled and booked (for me to pick up at Lisbon) interim due before I go and the letter arrives.
I need another advert because the postcode was wrong. FFS!
Anyways, the point. The letter states in bold :-
…In the meantime, you are advised that you cannot lawfully operate goods vehicles with a gross plated weight exceeding 3.5 tonnes for the carriage of goods in connection with your trade or business or for hire or reward until you are granted authority to do so and the licence documents have been issued…
So, it’s taxed, insured, I hold C+E, its my stuff on my truck from my house to my house.
Can anybody definatively state whether or not I have to have an Operators Licence ?
And what are the implications of running to Portugal without one ?
Well the EU rules are just that, so they apply equally in all member states. So all rules must be observed unless the countries you are driving in have any derogations that would exempt you. A copy of the EU regs can be found at : - transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/r … Europe.pdf
The other issue is operators licence. These I am fairly sure are issued by each member state of the EU, and are not the same from one country to the next, so the safest way is to have one. However I don’t think you need to carry it with you in the same way that you need to carry your original registration and insurance documents etc., so who is to know whether you have one or not! However having read, and i’m sure you have a copy of (vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/reposit … 009-08.pdf) :-
1.10 A standard international licence allows you to carry your own goods, and goods for other people for hire or reward, both in Great Britain and on international journeys. Operators who are issued with international licences will also receive Community Authorisations which are required for all hire or reward operations in, or through European Union countries. These have replaced the need for community permits, bilateral permits between member states and permits for transit traffic through the EU but not permits for travel to or through non-EU countries where these are still required. See Appendix 12 for furtherinformation.
So along with your International ‘O’ Licence you get Community Authorisations, which you will need to carry.
The only sure way to find out if you require one would be to contact the French, Spanish and Portuguese licensing authorities - that would almost certainly be very time consuming and costly.
As you have already applied and presumably paid then the only additional cost is the new advert - and time in granting of course, so probably best to get one. presumably you have
French, Spanish and Protuguese authorities are sometimes a little over the top with fines for the slightest thing they consider wrong, so best to be on the safe side.
Wheel Nut:
I think it would be a very brave or foolish man who ventured into Espana without an EC permit whether you need one or not
I don’t know the official answer though without searching
AGREED, very foolish, the Porkers are very sensitive aswell.
I don`t understand the logic of the plan, it would have been far cheaper to book the container, get the haulage sorted at both ends, WITHOUT the self imposed hassle you are going to get.
The rates outbound either in a container or by road are dirt cheap.
Smart Mart:
Well the EU rules are just that, so they apply equally in all member states. So all rules must be observed unless the countries you are driving in have any derogations that would exempt you. A copy of the EU regs can be found at : - transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/r … Europe.pdf
that’s the theory some countries interpret the rules differently
The other issue is operators licence. These I am fairly sure are issued by each member state of the EU, and are not the same from one country to the next, so the safest way is to have one. However I don’t think you need to carry it with you in the same way that you need to carry your original registration and insurance documents etc., so who is to know whether you have one or not! However having read, and i’m sure you have a copy of (vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/reposit … 009-08.pdf) :-
1.10 A standard international licence allows you to carry your own goods, and goods for other people for hire or reward, both in Great Britain and on international journeys. Operators who are issued with international licences will also receive Community Authorisations which are required for all hire or reward operations in, or through European Union countries. These have replaced the need for community permits, bilateral permits between member states and permits for transit traffic through the EU but not permits for travel to or through non-EU countries where these are still required. See Appendix 12 for furtherinformation.
you don’t need a international O Licence to transport your own goods abroad, you can do that on a restricted licence !
Denis F:
you don’t need a international O Licence to transport your own goods abroad, you can do that on a restricted licence !
Unless you can speak very good French, Spanish and Portugese or have well translated official documents, you could be heading for trouble with a UK registered truck carrying plant across international borders.
I am not saying you are wrong, just that I have discovered over the years, not everything in life is fair
Denis F:
you don’t need a international O Licence to transport your own goods abroad, you can do that on a restricted licence !
Unless you can speak very good French, Spanish and Portugese or have well translated official documents, you could be heading for trouble with a UK registered truck carrying plant across international borders.
I am not saying you are wrong, just that I have discovered over the years, not everything in life is fair
Interesting thread though!
actually i was wrong there - it’s a standard National Licence that lets you carry your own goods abroad
you’re right about having trouble with the authorities abroad though - maybe a few “coffees” would be needed
Denis F:
actually i was wrong there - it’s a standard National Licence that lets you carry your own goods abroad
The FTA yearbook states that you can take your own goods abroad on a restricted licence.
I thought you could with a restricted but I was just reading A & D and noticed it said
Classification of operator licences — there are three licence categories:-
A Restricted (R) licence authorises the use of a goods vehicle on public roads in
Great Britain for the carriage of the licence holder’s own goods in the course of his
trade or business. The licence holder cannot carry goods for other people for hire or
reward;
A Standard National (S/N) licence allows the licence holder to carry both his own
goods and goods for other people for hire or reward, on public roads in Great Britain.
He can also carry his own goods on journeys abroad;
A Standard International (S/I) licence allows the licence holder to carry both his
own goods and goods for other people for hire or reward. These activities can be
undertaken both in Great Britain and on international journeys.
I’m back. Wether or not I did the right thing seems to be open to significant interpretation.
Manchester - Plymouth - Santander - Algarve loaded with Telehandler.
Algarve - Lisbon - Algarve pick up 20’ High Cube Container from Lisbon Port.
1000 Spanish and Portuguese miles with various loads and not a pull. Its in the hands of the authorities at Santander
to let you off the dockside which is where I was expecting difficulty. But no, no problem.
Brave or foolish ? whatever ! Ive got chit to be on with.
Thank you all for your input
P.S. still no interim O licence
Classification of operator licences — there are three licence categories:-
A Restricted (R) licence authorises the use of a goods vehicle on public roads in
Great Britain for the carriage of the licence holder’s own goods in the course of his
trade or business.
As this is not the case in this instance then I wou;d say that no O licence is required.
- must use tacho and comes under EU regs.
