Hi new to this just looking for some more info , since vosa have been no help
I have a couple of sprinter single car transporters , I only do main garage dealers delivering across country ,no recoveries . I am looking at a vw crafter 5t single car transporter I don’t use trailers and won’t be with crafter ,but I am getting mixed answers all vosa kept talking about was using trailer all time need o licence no answer with just vehicle only I know I need tachometer can anyone here help make things a bit clearer
O licence or not for just driving 5t without trailer
As you are doing national deliveries for dealers and the Gross Plated weight is over 3.5 tonnes, you’ll need at least a Standard national O’licence.
To get this you’ll need a suitable operating centre, maintenance plan, CPC holder, and a few other bits.
This might help a bit.
You will need an operators licence to operate any vehicle over 3.5 tonnes GVW. If you are transporting other peoples property for monetary gain you will need a Standard National O licence. If you own the goods being carried you will need a restricted licence. It has nothing to do with trailers.
If you need a standard O licence you will need to pass the Operators CPC exams or employ a transport manager that already has it.
As above yes you need o licence & an internal or external TM, plus all drivers will need a dcpc.
I think you have confused running the 5t vs 3.5t transporters, where none of the above applies until you hitch up a trailer, when it suddenly all does, with going above 3.5t were same regs apply as if it was a 44t.
So I could run a light car transporter, no trailor, at +3.5 tonne (but not exceeding 7.5t), I would need a DCPC but NOT an LGV licence, I would need a tacho, digital or otherwise but NOT a Standard operators licence UNLESS I put a 2 / 3 axle car transporter trailor on the back! 
Yes, No… sort of■■? 
Confused.com 
There is always the “Dual Purpose vehicle” option which I believe Mr Iguana runs. A standard 4x4 with seats and a single / two car, two or three axle car transporter trailer. I think that requires the driver to have a DCPC but no LGV /HGV, a digital or analogue tacho but NO Operators Licence!!
Properly Confused.Com
The trailer is only relevant if that’s the thing that takes you over 3.5t. Which is why you don’t often see 3.5t car transporters towing now. That’s why people talk about trailers being the thing that takes you in to O and tacho territory - but only if you weren’t already.
If the Crafter is already plated over then it won’t make a lot of difference, you’re already at that point.
Driving licence is another issue again, B under 3.5t, C1 over and +E in either case if you want to tow, based on you wanting to actually carry something.
Upper maximum on a pre 97 grandfather rights C1+E is 8250kg so you should still be OK towing with the 5t Crafter assuming you passed before 97. You’d also already have the necessary tacho / O / all that messing.
DPV I’m sure still need to be under 2040kg. Which these days isn’t many of them. You might be able to include a twin-cab transporter in there but I doubt you could take much lunch. I did talk to a guy a while back who had I think a Mitsu Canter, twin cab 3.5t, claimed he was legal without O and was towing ULW < 1020kg. Think he was running a tacho though. I also only had his word for it.
You’re also back to square one with the payload, nice way to get two cars without O but 1460kg before you’ve fuelled it and got in will restrict you somewhat.
gov.uk/being-a-goods-vehicl … r/overview
Motor vehicles and trailers
You’ll need a goods vehicle operator’s licence for a motor vehicle and trailer combination if:
the motor vehicle and the trailer(s) are plated and the total of their gross plated weights is more than 3,500 kg
the total unladen weight of the vehicle and trailer combination is more than 1,525 kg
You don’t need an operator’s licence if your trailer’s unladen weight is less than 1,020 kg and you only carry your own goods.
Carrying goods for hire or reward
You’ll need a standard licence if you’re carrying other people’s goods for hire or reward (eg working as a courier or freight transport business) and the vehicle and trailer combination exceeds the weight limits above for a single vehicle.
bullitt:
So I could run a light car transporter, no trailor, at +3.5 tonne (but not exceeding 7.5t), I would need a DCPC but NOT an LGV licence, I would need a tacho, digital or otherwise but NOT a Standard operators licence UNLESS I put a 2 / 3 axle car transporter trailor on the back!Yes, No… sort of■■?
There is always the “Dual Purpose vehicle” option which I believe Mr Iguana runs. A standard 4x4 with seats and a single / two car, two or three axle car transporter trailer. I think that requires the driver to have a DCPC but no LGV /HGV, a digital or analogue tacho but NO Operators Licence!!
Properly Confused.Com
It is indeed confusing, yes I have a 4x4 used wth a trailer on the fleet plus 3.5t vans & 6.5t/ 9t train, light truck puddle jumper stuff, but for many (but not all by far) uses 4x4 is great, no O needed (you could put it on one if you wished, but bit mad to as its so restrictive unless a heavy trailer demands it), no dcpc needed, no HGV licence needed, but yes just like a truck or 3.5t towing- a tacho is, vosa do like a full wtd diary tho if driving it (or indeed any other vehicle- I got asked to produce one or prove my hours when in a 3.5t) is not your full time occupation, which can be a right pain.
The Dual purpose bit is a bit misleading, all most all current 4x4 that can tow 3.5t or near, are over the weight for that category, no matter tho, a passenger vehicle which a regular car or indeed a 4x4 with seats (importantly not a commercial van 4x4) also has same exemptions as a dual purpose.
ref your 1st bit, 3.5t+ demands all you said, ignore trailer or without trailer anything 3.5+ (in regards to original question, there are some exemptions not relevant in this case) does indeed need an O, not however bizarrely if its a recovery truck, not a delivery truck tho despite recovery being for hire & reward for that purpose & yes lots of folk do run recovery wagons as delivery, funnily enough vosa are not too keen when they nab you tho!
Ian G:
You might be able to include a twin-cab transporter in there but I doubt you could take much lunch. I did talk to a guy a while back who had I think a Mitsu Canter, twin cab 3.5t, claimed he was legal without O and was towing ULW < 1020kg. Think he was running a tacho though. I also only had his word for it.You’re also back to square one with the payload, nice way to get two cars without O but 1460kg before you’ve fuelled it and got in will restrict you somewhat.
I know a fella who chatted to this guy in a services & i’ve seen him around too, v short deck 1 car transporter only suitable for small cars, can only crossload from trailer, its all down to the construction & use regs & the wording of load area & distance to steering wheel or back of passenger seats or somesuch. Was all well researched & he had been vosa stopped & been ok, seemed too restrictive to me.
Isuzu D-max and Ford Ranger are dual purpose qualifying pick-ups with 3.5t tow capacity. They also will have a near 1 ton payload in the pick-up bed. They represent most payload for minimum aggro - ie 2.5t on a trailer and another 1t on the truck.
You can better take advantage of the truck payload for plant and machinery with this sort of fifth wheel set-up it would match or exceed the payload of a 7.5 tonner. The downside is the trailer would need to be plated and tested but it would still be o-licence free unlike the 7.5 tonner. I suspect if you were clever with a custom trailer build you could keep the weight down enough for two average cars.
Own Account Driver:
You can better take advantage of the truck payload for plant and machinery with this sort of fifth wheel set-up it would match or exceed the payload of a 7.5 tonner. The downside is the trailer would need to be plated and tested but it would still be o-licence free unlike the 7.5 tonner. I suspect if you were clever with a custom trailer build you could keep the weight down enough for two average cars.
If the trailer in that set up is over 3500 kg plated MAM then the driver would need a LGV C1+E to drive it
Trailers can’t dictate licence categories for tow vehicles. The GVW of the tow vehicle is what counts.
I know where you’re getting this from and it could only apply to post 2013 licence holders and is also untested in court. Also, you could not drive it legally on a C1+E (see below) and I really can’t see a court ruling it is C+E.
Category C1+E
You can drive C1 category vehicles with a trailer over 750kg, but the trailer - when fully loaded - can’t weigh more than the vehicle.
Own Account Driver:
Trailers can’t dictate licence categories for tow vehicles. The GVW of the tow vehicle is what counts.
The change came about on 19/01/2013 from an EU directive and is retrospective
gov.uk/government/uploads/s … 020514.pdf
BE
Cars with trailers
Combinations of vehicles consisting of a vehicle in category B and a trailer, where the combination does not come within category B, and the MAM of the trailer or semi-trailer does not exceed 3500kg.
Not just for post 19/01/2013 as I first thought = deffo retrospective
It the same ruling that retrospectively scrapped the B towing rule which said the MAM of the trailer could not exceed the unladen weight of the vehicle
It does not make sense to have different rules for the same category which is why it is the same for all
C1E
Medium sized vehicles
and trailers
- Vehicles between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer over 750kg, designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than eight passengers in addition to the driver — combined weight not more than 12000kg.
Look what has gone = but the trailer - when fully loaded - can’t weigh more than the vehicle.
ROG:
Own Account Driver:
Trailers can’t dictate licence categories for tow vehicles. The GVW of the tow vehicle is what counts.The change came about on 19/01/2013 from an EU directive and is retrospective
gov.uk/government/uploads/s … 020514.pdf
BE
Cars with trailers
Combinations of vehicles consisting of a vehicle in category B and a trailer, where the combination does not come within category B, and the MAM of the trailer or semi-trailer does not exceed 3500kg.
Can’t legally make things retrospective they try, like with, accompanying learners with grandfather rights but it is not legally sound and if a court agrees it would be a total subversion of centuries of legal precedent.
It’s the same way dcpc is framed in terms of driving vocationally as they cannot take existing rights away. As I say I knew where you were getting this from but although I have higher categories I would still happily drive that combination on a pre-2013 licence B+E with little fear of prosecution and you would still be theoretically illegal on C1+E.
ROG:
C1E
Medium sized vehicles
and trailers
- Vehicles between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer over 750kg, designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than eight passengers in addition to the driver — combined weight not more than 12000kg.
Look what has gone = but the trailer - when fully loaded - can’t weigh more than the vehicle.
It’s not gone - scroll down to c1+e:
Own Account Driver:
ROG:
C1E
Medium sized vehicles
and trailers
- Vehicles between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer over 750kg, designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than eight passengers in addition to the driver — combined weight not more than 12000kg.
Look what has gone = but the trailer - when fully loaded - can’t weigh more than the vehicle.
It’s not gone - scroll down to c1+e:
I know what is there - its not been updated - the DVLA are famous for this as can been seen by the fact they have left the old 1997 to 2013 info all over the internet stating that the B licence towing rules still show the same thing - but it went from the rules over 18 months ago
I can only tell what is the current law and not call any other driver who thinks differently when the DVLA make it so confusing when they leave the old rules all over the internet
I have Emailed and called them - they say they are aware - but do nothing
ROG:
I can only tell what is the current law and not call any other driver who thinks differently when the DVLA make it so confusing when they leave the old rules all over the internetI have Emailed and called them - they say they are aware - but do nothing
There was no change made to C1+E in the directive though I am almost certain it referred to and made alterations only to B categories. If that change was made it is creating a loophole that would allow much higher payloads that ought to be on higher category licences be carried on a lesser one and theoretically an 8t+ drawbar trailer to be towed by a vehicle which might weigh as little as 2t.