Noob question!

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

No, it’s not true, in fact it’s a gross exaggeration. :laughing:

What actually happens is that every calender minute you move within is counted as driving time. So, in practice, it records the whole time you were creeping in traffic as driving (which it was, as you were at the wheel and in control of the vehicle) where in the “good old days” on analogue we all used to stop and start our timers only when we actually rolled forward, counting only a couple of seconds at a time. In other words, it counts “drivering” as opposed to “driving”, if you see what I mean.

I was convinced, like many others, that my digitach was robbing me blind…until I had an older analogue motor for a few days whilst mine was in for MOT and actually it only made 10 minutes difference over a day, if that. If anyone tells you they are losing more, they are either lying or need to get their tacho fixed!!! :grimacing:

It’s actually a bit more complicated than this, but it’s late and I’m tired, so that should give you the jist. Basically it records in the spirit of the law where we’d all prefer it to record to the letter. :wink:

Hope that makes some kind of sense. If not, I’ll try again when I’ve had a kip! :blush:

22

As Lucy correctly states it just counts every block minute, in which the wheels have turned, as driving.

It would be a very strange system that accounted for more minutes in an hour than there actually are! :open_mouth:

As for the VOSA thing, if i had 11hrs 09m stored on my card i would spend the next 2/3 months driving like an angel and avoiding known VOSA sites! :grimacing:

“Driving 11 hours or more within one duty period - £200.00”

What that means that if you get tugged while that data is still on the card (Sometimes lasts over 60 days i’ve found out) they will fine you £200, there and then. They will ask for the reason and may decide to take it further.

Also understand that ONE of the key reasons for Tacho rules and Speed limiters is fair competition. I.e. if a job cannot be done by company A in 10hrs driving, yet company B manages it by doing 11hrs 09min, then company B has gained an UNFAIR advantage by flouting the rules.

Like Lucy said i’m not wanting to be Mr Doom and Gloom but you do need to understand it’s not good practice.

Any future problems then get on here and ask, people are always willing to help!

23

Did you know if you press the down button on your tacho head it will bring up your driving time since your last break? And it must have been flashing like mad at you anyway surely?
I think you should listen to the advice given here.
I don’t know who you work for but a lot of employers wouldn’t be too pleased with this as they could be dropped in it too.
Sorry you had a bad day but in future like Lucy said, park up and make the required calls. It’s your licence.
Best of luck mate.

24

I sat and watched my digi card when sat in the traffic in thurrock the other night and every time I stopped I pressed the arrow to display time. Every time I stopped for a certain length of time it went up a minute even though I was standing still :open_mouth: Have also left the yard in a morning having drove all of 10 seconds to trailer, hooked up and drove out again roughly 30 seconds as the yard isnt very big only to have 8 minutes on the driving time already :unamused:
It has happened on every single unit I have used with a seimens digi in so either I am unlucky in that I always get ones that dont work or they are indeed crap and add minutes on to driving that you havent actually done. I know it isnt recording more driving time then duty time but it is still taking the ■■■■. That “only 10 mins at best” is what could be the difference in a £100 fine for a driver or not when getting pulled by vosa for going over his/her 10 hours drive time when looking for somewhere safe to park so it does matter, just because you and a lot of others on here wont drive to the maximum every day doesnt mean others wont and they need every minute possible especially when tramping and working on near on impossible deadlines

25

Yeah I know what you’re saying, I put mine on break the other night, checked the driving time, wrote it down for reference, looked back up and 2 minutes miraculously added! :open_mouth:
Mind you not over an hour!
I agree with your point however. How can they add 2 minutes driving while I’m on break?

26

No idea I have done the same thing writing down my hours throughout the day driving wise and when I have done a printout to double check it was never the same as what I wrote down before the break, it doesnt add 2 minutes break on so you can pull off early does it? :smiley:

27

As others have said, you’re not paid even close to enough money to break the law.

A £200 fixed penalty if caught going 11hrs or more is the MINIMUM, court action can also be taken.

For future info, keep a record of your driving, if in doubt, stop and do a print out, it’ll have your driving hours for that day at the bottom.

I would also avoid the known vostapo points if I was you, and, to see when you’re clear of it on your card, just try and do a print out, go back as far as poss, if the date of offence is still showing in that list, you’re not yet safe.

Also remember, the truck stores the info, so if you’re in a different truck, you still may get ■■■■■■ if that truck gets stopped.

Also, if you download your card at work, they’ve got the records and if they get audited, it could come back on you that way, even if you don’t work for them at the time.

So, to sumerise, you were a bloody idiot, and being new to the job is no excuse, you’ve obviously passed the theory test etc and should have a grasp of the rules req’d for doing the job you’re being employed to do.

The company may well sack you over this when the infringments come in.

Sorry to join in the doom and gloom, but hopefully other new starters will read this and not make the same mistake, and I really and truly do hope you get away with it and don’t lose your job, licence or freedom

28

OllieNotts:
Every time I stopped for a certain length of time it went up a minute even though I was standing still :open_mouth: Have also left the yard in a morning having drove all of 10 seconds to trailer, hooked up and drove out again roughly 30 seconds as the yard isnt very big only to have 8 minutes on the driving time already

The way to understand and avoid this is to know how the digitachs work.

Any minute in which there is any movement of the vehicle is put down as a driving minute.
Any minute in which there is no driving but the minutes either side of it count as driving is also recorded as driving.

To explain that again with an example:

If you drive from 08:00:00 for 30 seconds to 08:00:30 (driving from the unit park to the trailer park)
and then wander up and down on foot to find the right trailer for two minutes until 08:02:30
and then drive from 08:02:30 to 08:02:50 (backing under the trailer).

Even though you’ve only driven for a total of 40 seconds that will be recorded as a continuous 3 minute block of driving as there is driving in the minute from 08:00 to 08:01 and 08:02 to 08:03 so they both count and the minute inbetween is also assumed to be driving.

If you waited another 30s before you backed under so there were 2 clear minutes of other work recorded before you moved again then it would only record 2 minutes instead of three.

As you can see from this it doesn’t take much for a series of very short movements to be turned into a period of continuous driving on the card. If you’re stuck in a bad traffic jam then ensuring you have two clear minutes each time before you pull forward could save you a fair bit of time at the end of the day.

Paul

29

OllieNotts:
No idea I have done the same thing writing down my hours throughout the day driving wise and when I have done a printout to double check it was never the same as what I wrote down before the break, it doesnt add 2 minutes break on so you can pull off early does it? :smiley:

:laughing: :laughing:
Bring back proper tacho’s! The one’s that get lost on windy days!! :open_mouth: :laughing:

30

streaky:
Yeah I know what you’re saying, I put mine on break the other night, checked the driving time, wrote it down for reference, looked back up and 2 minutes miraculously added! :open_mouth:
Mind you not over an hour!
I agree with your point however. How can they add 2 minutes driving while I’m on break?

I don’t know how it can add two minutes but this is how it can add one:

You drive until, for example, 17:27:30, stick your mode switch on break, check your driving hours.

As 17:28:00 comes round, the tacho looks are the previous minute that has just elapsed, sees 30s of driving in it, marks it down as a driving minute. You check your driving hours again, it’s gone up by 1 minute.

Paul

31

repton:

streaky:
Yeah I know what you’re saying, I put mine on break the other night, checked the driving time, wrote it down for reference, looked back up and 2 minutes miraculously added! :open_mouth:
Mind you not over an hour!
I agree with your point however. How can they add 2 minutes driving while I’m on break?

I don’t know how it can add two minutes but this is how it can add one:

You drive until, for example, 17:27:30, stick your mode switch on break, check your driving hours.

As 17:28:00 comes round, the tacho looks are the previous minute that has just elapsed, sees 30s of driving in it, marks it down as a driving minute. You check your driving hours again, it’s gone up by 1 minute.

Paul

It is true though, sometimes they add 1, sometimes 2…

No idea why, I’ve gone over my 4.5hrs in a queue and I’d also done over an hours driving Thursday in the queue for the Dartford Tunnel when I’d only come off break 55mins before… How the hell could I have drove more minutes than exist?

Print outs prove it too.

32

Thats impossible, it will never register more minutes than there are, it’s 100% impossible.

33

No, digitachs won’t record more minutes than there are, but they do of course deprive you of driving time if you stop a lot (not just in traffic). I was oddly cheated of time once, for, having an atomic-clock accurate satnav, I knew the tacho was about to go over the minute to 4 hours 30 driving just as I was pulling up to stop. So as soon as I stopped I pressed the button to see how much driving had been done and, in all absolute seriousness, I saw it change from 4 hours 29 minutes driving to 4 hours 31 minutes, as I was stopped! Now I know that there is an approx. 5 second lag between movement and recording but this is taking the Michael somewhat. Also if you have a trip timer that works on how long the engine has been running then I’ve seen the digitach clock up 15 minutes or more driving than the engine has even been running! Grrr. Thief of time, I call 'em; still, I prefer them to the old style due to overall convenience.

34

OllieNotts:
I sat and watched my digi card when sat in the traffic in thurrock the other night and every time I stopped I pressed the arrow to display time. Every time I stopped for a certain length of time it went up a minute even though I was standing still :open_mouth: Have also left the yard in a morning having drove all of 10 seconds to trailer, hooked up and drove out again roughly 30 seconds as the yard isnt very big only to have 8 minutes on the driving time already :unamused:
It has happened on every single unit I have used with a seimens digi in so either I am unlucky in that I always get ones that dont work or they are indeed crap and add minutes on to driving that you havent actually done. I know it isnt recording more driving time then duty time but it is still taking the ■■■■. That “only 10 mins at best” is what could be the difference in a £100 fine for a driver or not when getting pulled by vosa for going over his/her 10 hours drive time when looking for somewhere safe to park so it does matter, just because you and a lot of others on here wont drive to the maximum every day doesnt mean others wont and they need every minute possible especially when tramping and working on near on impossible deadlines

I am a tramper, I do run maximum hours, and the comparison done above involved dock queues, tipping and reloading. Oh, and a Siemens tacho (I’ve yet to use any other type.). :unamused:

A lot of it comes down to learning to use the equipment to your best advantage. Remember, it counts any driving within a calender minute as a whole minute, so if you start backing under a trailer at 12.00 and finish at 12.01 on the clock, even though you only did 20 seconds each side of the change, it will record 2 minutes. That’s how it adds a minute after you’ve stopped - you had just tipped over into the next calender minute when you put the brake on, so when it assesses the content of that minute (which it does after the full minute has passed) it’ll “see” the driving and add that extra minute on to the total. It also only counts WHOLE minutes as break, so there’s no need to have 46 minutes any more to be sure, as the tacho does that for you.

The trick is to wait for the new minute to start before moving so as to avoid straddling 2 with a short move. If you watch any slow moving queue outside a box terminal or ferry port these days, you can spot the digi-equipped vehicles before seeing the reg plates, because we’lll be the ones letting a decent gap build in front of us so as to get a decent chunk of movement into the minute in which we move. Also, a Siemens will let you move for 2 seconds at a time without “noticing” the driving (you can prove this by putting it on break - they default to other work, usually - and doing a 2 second move. It’ll still be on break rather than having defaulted to other work afterwards, and the driving timer will stay the same). So if you’re back in up to a bay, try and get so that the move after you’ve stopped to open your doors is only a tiny one,and that’s another minute saved. There’s loads of situations where you can do that.

35

waynedl:
…I’d also done over an hours driving Thursday in the queue for the Dartford Tunnel when I’d only come off break 55mins before… How the hell could I have drove more minutes than exist?

You can’t, your tacho must be defective best get it looked at.

Snudger:
So as soon as I stopped I pressed the button to see how much driving had been done and, in all absolute seriousness, I saw it change from 4 hours 29 minutes driving to 4 hours 31 minutes, as I was stopped

It will never jump two minutes on the display in one go, your tacho is faulty.

36

Lucy:
If you watch any slow moving queue outside a box terminal or ferry port these days, you can spot the digi-equipped vehicles before seeing the reg plates, because we’lll be the ones letting a decent gap build in front of us so as to get a decent chunk of movement into the minute in which we move.

I often wondered why they did that. I just thought it was lazyness :slight_smile:

God forbid that I should ever have a job where i need to worry about a few minutes all the time like that. It would have to be VERY well paid.

37

Coffeeholic:

waynedl:
…I’d also done over an hours driving Thursday in the queue for the Dartford Tunnel when I’d only come off break 55mins before… How the hell could I have drove more minutes than exist?

You can’t, your tacho must be defective best get it looked at.

Snudger:
So as soon as I stopped I pressed the button to see how much driving had been done and, in all absolute seriousness, I saw it change from 4 hours 29 minutes driving to 4 hours 31 minutes, as I was stopped

It will never jump two minutes on the display in one go, your tacho is faulty.

I swear this happened and believed it to be a “feature” of digitachs in the precise situation that caused it. It is of course erroneous to do this but I am going to try to recreate the situation to prove it can happen. It should be a simple matter of stopping just before the clock ticks over a minute, then pressing the button (whilst it thinks you are still moving - the circle symbol showing). I trust I don’t have to do precisely just under 4 hours 30 minutes to achieve this. I shall repost here if I can reproduce it.

38

Snudger:

Coffeeholic:

waynedl:
…I’d also done over an hours driving Thursday in the queue for the Dartford Tunnel when I’d only come off break 55mins before… How the hell could I have drove more minutes than exist?

You can’t, your tacho must be defective best get it looked at.

Snudger:
So as soon as I stopped I pressed the button to see how much driving had been done and, in all absolute seriousness, I saw it change from 4 hours 29 minutes driving to 4 hours 31 minutes, as I was stopped

It will never jump two minutes on the display in one go, your tacho is faulty.

I swear this happened and believed it to be a “feature” of digitachs in the precise situation that caused it. It is of course erroneous to do this but I am going to try to recreate the situation to prove it can happen. It should be a simple matter of stopping just before the clock ticks over a minute, then pressing the button (whilst it thinks you are still moving - the circle symbol showing)

It can show 4:29 when you stop and a couple of minutes later show 4:31 but it will go 4:29 - 4:30 - 4:31, it will not go from 4:29 - 4:31.

39

I just wanted to see how much I had been driving as I knew it was close to the limit and was outraged to see it go directly from 4:29 to 4:31, particularly as I was stopped at the time! I am neither joking nor mad but I am going to do my best to prove this can happen: probably a video of it happening should suffice but I’m not going that far; I just want to see for myself if it can be reproduced. Why I almost feel like going into work and getting one out now, so to speak.

40

Coffeeholic:

Snudger:
So as soon as I stopped I pressed the button to see how much driving had been done and, in all absolute seriousness, I saw it change from 4 hours 29 minutes driving to 4 hours 31 minutes, as I was stopped

It will never jump two minutes on the display in one go, your tacho is faulty.

There’s a lot of faulty ones around then, I’ve been on agency and cab hopping since digi-tacho’s came out - and also a few coaches too - and they’ve all done that.