robroy:
It would maybe help the situation if the Traffic Police were out and about as they once were, and concentrated on actual ‘policing’ lane discipline on motorways in high profile patrol cars, instead of three to a tractor unit with a camera harassing truckers and making a mint in fines.
Think of something else rob because that’s getting boring about police revenue making. If no one did anything wrong they wouldn’t make any would they and everyone’s happy.
Simon:
Carryfast:
The old generations decided that we needed hard shoulders on motorways for a reason.If not they wouldn’t have bothered with them.The old generations didn’t have cameras or changeable signs on gantries. Even the FOG warning signs were a pair of amber flashing lights, one above the other, on a pole in the centre reservation. This meant "Slow down to 50, it might be foggy (It probably was, 5 miles ago) .
In Principal, these SmartMotorways should be perfectly safe. Unfortunately there are 2 major flaws. IMHO
- Drivers being human.
- Gantry sign operators being pretty rubbish.
How often do we see signs lit up with a problem, so you slow down, comply, 10 miles later (OK maybe a slight exageration) you still haven’t seen the slightest reason why ?
Then the gantries light up with “End”, a mile later there is half a wooden pallet in lane one.
“Queue on sliproad” is a perfect example. It’s 3 in the morning, you’re keepin’ 'er lit. You’ve seen 12 other vehicles in the last half hour, 8 of those going the other way. Then you see the Q sign.
If drivers could trust gantry sign operators, perhaps “Smart Motorways” would work a bit better. They are professional gantry sign operators after all, in the same way as we are professional drivers.
This
Rowley010:
robroy:
It would maybe help the situation if the Traffic Police were out and about as they once were, and concentrated on actual ‘policing’ lane discipline on motorways in high profile patrol cars, instead of three to a tractor unit with a camera harassing truckers and making a mint in fines.Think of something else rob because that’s getting boring about police revenue making. If no one did anything wrong they wouldn’t make any would they and everyone’s happy.
I don’t give a ■■■■ if you’re bored with it or not tbh mate, it is still an accurate analysis of the Policing system on UK roads.
Police resources could be put to better use…end of.
robroy:
Rowley010:
robroy:
It would maybe help the situation if the Traffic Police were out and about as they once were, and concentrated on actual ‘policing’ lane discipline on motorways in high profile patrol cars, instead of three to a tractor unit with a camera harassing truckers and making a mint in fines.Think of something else rob because that’s getting boring about police revenue making. If no one did anything wrong they wouldn’t make any would they and everyone’s happy.
I don’t give a [zb] if you’re bored with it or not tbh mate, it is still an accurate analysis of the Policing system on UK roads.
Police resources could be put to better use…end of.
If you’ve lost the argument mate, you can surely do better than 2 emojis.
Or maybe I should have answered with… .
robroy:
If you’ve lost the argument mate, you can surely do better than 2 emojis.Or maybe I should have answered with…
It’s a shame the emojis here are so limited, I can think of better ones for him and his alter ego
emojipedia.org/emoji/%F0%9F%8D%86/
Simon:
Carryfast:
The old generations decided that we needed hard shoulders on motorways for a reason.If not they wouldn’t have bothered with them.The old generations didn’t have cameras or changeable signs on gantries. Even the FOG warning signs were a pair of amber flashing lights, one above the other, on a pole in the centre reservation. This meant "Slow down to 50, it might be foggy (It probably was, 5 miles ago) .
In Principal, these Smart
- Drivers being human.
- Gantry sign operators being pretty rubbish.
How often do we see signs lit up with a problem, so you slow down, comply, 10 miles later (OK maybe a slight exageration) you still haven’t seen the slightest reason why ?
Then the gantries light up with “End”, a mile later there is half a wooden pallet in lane one.
“Queue on sliproad” is a perfect example. It’s 3 in the morning, you’re keepin’ 'er lit. You’ve seen 12 other vehicles in the last half hour, 8 of those going the other way. Then you see the Q sign.If drivers could trust gantry sign operators, perhaps “Smart Motorways” would work a bit better. They are professional gantry sign operators after all, in the same way as we are professional drivers.
There’s not a gantry sign operator in the world who can react to a sudden breakdown in time to stop any of the line of traffic that’s only 30 seconds behind it from running into it.
We didn’t have gantry signs on motorways because we didn’t generally need them.So here we are with motorway speeds often less than single carriage A roads and as such a liability of no real journey time upside.But the downside of the high probability of being stuck for hours between junctions in an unavoidable jam,caused by yet another collision or just ‘congestion’.Ultimately caused by the results of artificially bunched traffic,let alone hard shoulders being used as live lanes ( bearing in mind that creating an extra overtaking lane is pointless combined with lower speed limits assuming correct lane discipline ).What’s in all this for the motorway user other than a more dangerous environment,pointless possibly long delays and slower speeds at best.Which is why I now don’t generally use the M25 and M23 to go to Sussex or the M25/M20 to go to Dover,or the M6 when travelling to see other relatives in Preston.Preferring instead to use numerous other less aggravating and more pleasant choices of non motorway routes.Although those choices obviously reduce with the largest vehicle types.
i find its just best to ignore everything except the cash camera gantry with the speed limit and the red x if its a uk regd truck.
on paddy plates,then they matter not a bit.
on the only similar gantrys in northern ireland around belfast then irrespective of whats lit up,they are mostly completely ignored by everyone as the cameras behind them have never seemed to work since they installed them years ago.
another plus point for the land that time forgot… 
idrive:
robroy:
If you’ve lost the argument mate, you can surely do better than 2 emojis.Or maybe I should have answered with…
It’s a shame the emojis here are so limited, I can think of better ones for him and his alter ego
emojipedia.org/emoji/%F0%9F%8D%86/
I can think of better ones to use for rob and his ive got an opinion on everything and I know everything all the time attitude
robroy:
If you’ve lost the argument mate, you can surely do better than 2 emojis.Or maybe I should have answered with…
No I’ve not lost the argument. But I know I’ve succeeded in winding you up 
Conor:
tommy t:
They are not about safety , they were rolled out to generate revenue, the sheer number of speed scameras only proves thisI’m guessing from your post you’re one of those morons incapable of driving at or below the limit and have been caught by one?
Anyone who has been driving lorries since before these came in knows how much better stretches of the motorway are now where all lane running is. Many of us can recall the daily car park that was whole stretches of the M42 and M62 around Leeds and M1 around Nottingham which now at least spend much longer moving than they did any time since the 1990s.
The problem with smart motorways isn’t the idea, it is that it appears that the standards of many drivers is so low that they can’t understand such a simple concept even with big neon signs saying “Use Hard Shoulder.”
The problem isn’t with people not using the hard shoulder/lane 1, but with lack of places for broken down vehicles to get off the motorway, when they built the first one as a trial, the M42 I believe, the refuges were quite close together, since then they’ve built them far further apart.
This makes it more likely that a broken down vehicle will be on a live lane and be hit by a following vehicle.
The information gantries are only as good as the accuracy of the information they provide, if they don’t have the information there is a vehicle stranded in that section then they can’t display it. I believe that due to spending cuts, not only don’t the Traffic Police patrol our motorways, neither do the HATO’s, they just respond to calls.
The emergency services have also complained that they struggle to get to an incident when they don’t have a hard shoulder to use.
Maybe we could adopt the system in some European countries where vehicles move over in lanes 3 and 4 to form a route for emergency services, but that takes training and information, again due to spending cuts we simply don’t get much in the way of road safety information on mainstream broadcasters.
Rowley010:
idrive:
robroy:
If you’ve lost the argument mate, you can surely do better than 2 emojis.Or maybe I should have answered with…
It’s a shame the emojis here are so limited, I can think of better ones for him and his alter ego
emojipedia.org/emoji/%F0%9F%8D%86/I can think of better ones to use for rob and his ive got an opinion on everything and I know everything all the time attitude
As long as I can ■■■■ off people like you bud I’m happy in life. 
Better to have an opinion on everything than wallow in mediocrity though I reckon. 
robroy:
Rowley010:
idrive:
robroy:
If you’ve lost the argument mate, you can surely do better than 2 emojis.Or maybe I should have answered with…
It’s a shame the emojis here are so limited, I can think of better ones for him and his alter ego
emojipedia.org/emoji/%F0%9F%8D%86/I can think of better ones to use for rob and his ive got an opinion on everything and I know everything all the time attitude
As long as I can ■■■■ off people like you bud I’m happy in life.
Better to have an opinion on everything than wallow in mediocrity though I reckon.
Fantastic
What worries me most is telling whether the thing with the hazard lights is in one of those lay-bys or in lane 1 especially at night or heavy rain. Ideally I’d like to move into lane 2, but esp round corners its not always possible.
If everyone assumes its off the road in a lay-by and then one day its not, this might explain some of the crashes on these all running lanes.
Can think if several sections on the M1 like this with long sweeping corners where previously there was a very high chance anything broken down was on the shoulder. Now it could be in the lane.
trevHCS:
What worries me most is telling whether the thing with the hazard lights is in one of those lay-bys or in lane 1 especially at night or heavy rain. Ideally I’d like to move into lane 2, but esp round corners its not always possible.If everyone assumes its off the road in a lay-by and then one day its not, this might explain some of the crashes on these all running lanes.
Can think if several sections on the M1 like this with long sweeping corners where previously there was a very high chance anything broken down was on the shoulder. Now it could be in the lane.
Agree with that completely. Especially on the dark, unlit sections. Appropriate levels of lighting should be on every stretch of all lane running motorways.
Smart motorways aren’t entirely satisfactory, imagine having kids in car seats and konking out between refuge areas, you would be ■■■■■■■■ it for your families safety as you scrambled to get them all out whilst in a live lane.
What’s the alternative though? Build more motorways over the countryside that in years to come with become congested as well? If there is to be major investment in any new infrastructure it should be in stuff that gets vehicles off the road.
rob22888:
What’s the alternative though? Build more motorways over the countryside that in years to come with become congested as well? If there is to be major investment in any new infrastructure it should be in stuff that gets vehicles off the road.
Midlands M5/M6 problem could be solved in one hit.
Make that ■■■■ ridiculous M6 toll into a standard motorway. 
robroy:
rob22888:
What’s the alternative though? Build more motorways over the countryside that in years to come with become congested as well? If there is to be major investment in any new infrastructure it should be in stuff that gets vehicles off the road.Midlands M5/M6 problem could be solved in one hit.
Make that [zb] ridiculous M6 toll into a standard motorway.
Not a hope, but we can ■■■■ hundreds of billions on the HS2 vanity rail scheme so the more equal among us can shave a bit time off their journeys into that London.
Agreed, M6 Toll should have been bought from the company for the country, it would ease the whole of the west midlands section.
robroy:
rob22888:
What’s the alternative though? Build more motorways over the countryside that in years to come with become congested as well? If there is to be major investment in any new infrastructure it should be in stuff that gets vehicles off the road.Midlands M5/M6 problem could be solved in one hit.
Make that [zb] ridiculous M6 toll into a standard motorway.
True. And divert HS2 funding to the north for proper East-West rail infrastructure.
Rowley010:
If it says lane 1 or hard shoulder for junction x only then if you don’t want that junction move out of it
But my sat nav doesn’t tell me the J nr, how’s am supposed to know whether I’ll need this one or the next one■■?
Rowley010:
And if it says hard shoulder for emergency use only don’t drive in it.
And if I don’t understand English? Signs shoud be understandable by drivers of all literacy/language and based on visual rather than linguistic comunnicaiton. How would you like drviving through Germany and having to read “Vorshjschsjwnckltickhkeit Mit Dem Hartschreinarbeitwichserstrasse!”, keep a pocket German dictionary with you at all times? Next to your French one, of course, “voul se plaise oiu jo te ma découvrez nos offres” etc. etc.