limeyphil:
He hadn’t commited an offence. He obviously didn’t get any legal representation.
The CPS have to prove intent. How the [zb] can he intend to drive if he’s fast asleep and ■■■■■■ up?
However, He’s quite clearly an idiot. He pleaded guilty to an offence that could not have happened.
He’s spotted “sprawled across the road in a semi-conscious state”.
He was found “with the keys in the ignition”. Do you go to sleep with the keys left in the ignition?
He was clearly in a drink induced sleep and was twice the drink drive limit. There’s no way he would be fit to drive the next day anyway.
He was caught bang to rights.
Read the article. It was alleged that someone was in the road. The lorry driver was asleep in the bunk.
He was in no way bang to rights. If he was sat in the drivers seat, Then he’d be bang to rights.
RoadsRat:
He was found “with the keys in the ignition”. Do you go to sleep with the keys left in the ignition?
I do. What better place for them?
RoadsRat:
He was clearly in a drink induced sleep and was twice the drink drive limit. There’s no way he would be fit to drive the next day anyway.
I disagree. It would take about six units of alcohol to put you at twice the drink drive limit, and alcohol dissipates from the system at one unit per hour. Assuming he wasn’t going to be moving for 6 hours he would have had no alcohol in his system at all by then.
RoadsRat:
He was caught bang to rights.
I hope you aren’t a police officer, but if you are I suggest you look at Section 5 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 which I posted above.
Hw could he be drunk in charge when he was found unconscious at the side of the road, was it because he was the driver, and the keys were in the ignition, i thought you had to be in the driving position, it couldnt have been so serious as to only give him a 3 month driving ban. I have read a lot of cases where a driver was found to be `drunk in charge, and given the maximum 12 month ban, which i also thought was obligatory, then there was a guy who was drunk, but asleep on the back seat of his car, he too got a 12 month ban for being in charge of a vehicle whilst drunk, if there was no intention to drive ( obviously because he was unconscious) then there is a miscarriage of justice )
If the keys had not been in the ignition as it stated , ii dont think they could of done him for being in charge of a vehicle, i remeber some drivers use to put keys in a drivers wagon that hadn been drinking whilst being weekended at Pompey ,as there was spate of drivers getting done for being drunk in charge of a vehicle, it was all down to having keys
tortoise:
I always leave the keys in the ignition . Can’t lose them or forget where you put them then.
I imagine we all do, every last single one of us. After all, if you want to open a window during the night, how else could you do it if you didn’t have the key in the switch, although “ignition” is a bit of a misnomer because the first key position isn’t “ignition”, a vehicle does not go into ignition mode until the dashboard display lights up.
Roadsrat is presumably a police officer and like so many of his colleagues he seems to be hell-bent on imposing his own moralistic and puritanical values on everybody else rather than in understanding what the law actually says. I posted section 5 of the RTA 1988 earlier, he either can’t or won’t understand it.
Harry Monk:
Roadsrat is presumably a police officer and like so many of his colleagues he seems to be hell-bent on imposing his own moralistic and puritanical values on everybody else rather than in understanding what the law actually says.
yep…youve only got to go on youtube,to see countless coppers making it up as they go along :unamused: i was once told by a copper he could do me for drunk in charge...just because i was wearing motorcycle clothing whilst standing outside a hotel with a drink. erm...dont think so as the bike was chained to the fence,and i had a room booked for the night.
The tacho rules say a rest is where a driver is free from work and can dispose of his time in what he wants, he was at rest, and can do what he wants, he was not driving at the time.
If you are sober when you drive home at night, you get indoors and have some drinks that take you over the limit, the police knock on the door, on the way home a member of public has reported you for a driving offence.
You fail the breath test and arrested for drunk driving.
A case in Portsmouth port, a foreign driver came off the ferrry, he had bottles in the cab, when he was parked up for the night,that was when you were allowed to park up, he was arrested, but he had consumed more drink after he was parked up, and the Police had to calculate how much the body gets rid of, so in effect he could have been under the limit or a touch over coming off the ferry, but was over the limit when the Police got to him.
When they found him he was not driving until the next day.
truckyboy:
Hw could he be drunk in charge when he was found unconscious at the side of the road,
From the report, there is no evidence that the driver was the person who was in the road - the police, by their own admission, didn’t find that person, or the witness who claimed to have seen him. The driver was found asleep in the cab, with a cut to the head, though crucially the keys were in the ignition.
tortoise:
I always leave the keys in the ignition . Can’t lose them or forget where you put them then.
I imagine we all do, every last single one of us. After all, if you want to open a window during the night, how else could you do it if you didn’t have the key in the switch.
for me it was 5 minutes in scania lübeck, where they connected their laptop to my scania and made it so the windows work without the ignition. otherwise I’d hate for some lowlife to get into the cab during the night and take my keys as well.
I leave the keys in the ignition as I know if I put them somewhere safe I’d spend two hours every morning looking for them.
I wish I could be as perfect as some of the people on here.
It’s particularly worrying that a police officer doesn’t understand the law here. I posted the relevant section of the Road Traffic Act and now he has disappeared.
I could be parked on the road outside Acme Plastics on a Friday evening and I could be six times over the drink-drive limit, if I had delivery notes showing that I was booked in at 0800 on Monday morning then there’s no offence being committed, even if I had the keys in the ignition, even if I had the engine running to re-charge the batteries, the definition of “drive” is “to operate and control the direction and speed of a motor vehicle”.
Perhaps there should be some type of intelligence test for candidates wishing to become police officers based on English comprehension?
limeyphil:
He hadn’t commited an offence. He obviously didn’t get any legal representation.
The CPS have to prove intent. How the [zb] can he intend to drive if he’s fast asleep and ■■■■■■ up?
However, He’s quite clearly an idiot. He pleaded guilty to an offence that could not have happened.
He’s spotted “sprawled across the road in a semi-conscious state”.
He was found “with the keys in the ignition”. Do you go to sleep with the keys left in the ignition?
He was clearly in a drink induced sleep and was twice the drink drive limit. There’s no way he would be fit to drive the next day anyway.
He was caught bang to rights.
Read the article. It was alleged that someone was in the road. The lorry driver was asleep in the bunk.
He was in no way bang to rights. If he was sat in the drivers seat, Then he’d be bang to rights.
I’d suggest you read the article.
It said - “A member of the public was passing by and saw him lying unconscious on the road adjacent to the vehicle.”
If he wasn’t bang to rights, he would have plead not guilty or do people admit to things they aren’t guilty of?
Where he was found has little consequence. He was drunk in charge. Simples.
I was told, many many years ago, that the test was if the keys were in the ignition or not.
In the ignition, in theory you are prepared to drive. In a pocket or on the dash you are not. This only applies to vehicles with proper sleeping arrangements.
■■■■■■ up and sprawled across the back seat of your car with the keys in your possession means you’re drunk in charge.
I’ve got a bottle of whisky in my cab. On the odd occasion I’ll have a wee dram or two. I’ve also got a crate of beer in one of my lockers (almost empty at the moment). I quite often have a beer once I’ve parked up for the night. Like everyone else, I leave my keys in the ignition overnight, where else? But I also lock my doors. A police occifer cant see my keys in the ignition with my cab curtains shut and the doors locked.
I would have denied the charge of drunk in charge and gone to court to fight it.
I can’t afford a ban, or a fine. Nor could I afford the difficulty of finding another job with a DD code (or whatever it is) on my licence, or the inflated insurance costs. However I also don’t see any need for me to adhere to anyone elses moral code of abstemious behaviour. If I want a beer or two, or even a whisky or two in my own time, then I’ll have one or two. As long as I’m not committing any offence it’s no-one elses business.
But I’ll bet you aren’t over the drink drive limit though, are you?
Harry Monk:
I disagree. It would take about six units of alcohol to put you at twice the drink drive limit, and alcohol dissipates from the system at one unit per hour. Assuming he wasn’t going to be moving for 6 hours he would have had no alcohol in his system at all by then.
Oh right, you were there. Sorry I didn’t realise.
What about the driving he’d done prior to stopping? It’s quite easy to do a back trace on the alcohol level found and compare it with tacho records.
Harry Monk:
I hope you aren’t a police officer, but if you are I suggest you look at Section 5 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 which I posted above.
I’m fully aware of S5. I’d advise you also take a read of S4 and improve your armchair lawyer knowledge.
Harry Monk:
It’s particularly worrying that a police officer doesn’t understand the law here. I posted the relevant section of the Road Traffic Act and now he has disappeared.
I could be parked on the road outside Acme Plastics on a Friday evening and I could be six times over the drink-drive limit, if I had delivery notes showing that I was booked in at 0800 on Monday morning then there’s no offence being committed, even if I had the keys in the ignition, even if I had the engine running to re-charge the batteries, the definition of “drive” is “to operate and control the direction and speed of a motor vehicle”.
Perhaps there should be some type of intelligence test for candidates wishing to become police officers based on English comprehension?
He is probably on bluelight.com asking this very question
Harry Monk:
RoadsRat is presumably a police officer and like so many of his colleagues he seems to be hell-bent on imposing his own moralistic and puritanical values on everybody else rather than in understanding what the law actually says. I posted section 5 of the RTA 1988 earlier, he either can’t or won’t understand it.
The police gather the evidence. It’s the CPS (or procurator fiscal in this case) that decide whether to run with it. Try not to let your hatred of the police get in the way of the facts.
So you’ve copied and pasted S5. What’s your point?
