Wonder if my pornhub premium, xhamster VIP and Felchersandtribbers gold level subscriptions are tax deductable.
But as I’ve got my maths head on here’s some calculations.
Right so £26.20 stuck into wages = £17.80 a day, equating to a take-home loss of £8.40
Say your out 4 nights a week every year, unless your dozy who’s always out 5.
So 52 weeks in a year = 208 nights out
Less holidays 28 days = 180 nights out
So 180 x £8.40 = £1,512
But you will gain £17.80 per day on your holidays = £498.
Therefore give or take £1k per year worse off.
Now looking at allowable expenses for tax reclaim let’s work on £10 per day, meals and bits and bobs.
So that’s £10 x 180 = £1800 for tax reclaim.
20% of £1800 = £360.
Now your only £650 ish a year worse off.
There’s a rogue element with the holiday pay calculations so I’ve guessed a bit.
So allowing for my crap maths and other factors let’s work on £500 a year worse off.
But what if you get pay rises as a percentage of your hourly rate, well now it’s enhanced in the long run so it won’t take long before there’s no difference at all, in fact you might even be better off.
Dipper_Dave:
Wonder if my pornhub premium, xhamster VIP and Felchersandtribbers gold level subscriptions are tax deductable.
But as I’ve got my maths head on here’s some calculations.
Right so £26.20 stuck into wages = £17.80 a day, equating to a take-home loss of £8.40
Say your out 4 nights a week every year, unless your dozy who’s always out 5.
So 52 weeks in a year = 208 nights out
Less holidays 28 days = 180 nights out
So 180 x £8.40 = £1,512
But you will gain £17.80 per day on your holidays = £498.
Therefore give or take £1k per year worse off.
Now looking at allowable expenses for tax reclaim let’s work on £10 per day, meals and bits and bobs.
So that’s £10 x 180 = £1800 for tax reclaim.
20% of £1800 = £360.
Now your only £650 ish a year worse off.
There’s a rogue element with the holiday pay calculations so I’ve guessed a bit.
So allowing for my crap maths and other factors let’s work on £500 a year worse off.
But what if you get pay rises as a percentage of your hourly rate, well now it’s enhanced in the long run so it won’t take long before there’s no difference at all, in fact you might even be better off.
Worth thinking about as night out money seems fairly static?
Or to throw a curve ball in; how would it affect the maths if for example I stopped putting in receipts and therefore paid tax for only the 12 weeks leading up to my holiday?
Dave, not wanting to queer your pitch (ooh err Missus) our night out tax free is £26.01 but taxed is £21, how does that affect the maths?
Dipper_Dave:
Agreed, but the HMRC should accept a weekly shopping bill from the driver as evidence of expenditure for nights away rather than individual receipts or pictures of food.
How can they do that? There is nothing at all to indicate that a weeks’ worth of bread/pasta/fruit/cheese was to be consumed while away from home. Day men do the weekly shopping at their local supermarket, as do most families.
The fact they will accept it after the journey commenced rather than a weekly rest shopping expedition strikes me as ridiculous.
This is the bit that tips the balance from HMRC’s standpoint - if it was bought while away from home then it appears more likely it was intended for consumption during the trip.
I would estimate a day driver who lived alone shared virtually identical costs to a tramper, the only difference being he chooses to go home.
Which raises a separate question: Why should the tramper be entitled to tax relief on the NO money while the day man is not?
the maoster:
Or to throw a curve ball in; how would it affect the maths if for example I stopped putting in receipts and therefore paid tax for only the 12 weeks leading up to my holiday?
Dave, not wanting to queer your pitch (ooh err Missus) our night out tax free is £26.01 but taxed is £21, how does that affect the maths?
Not sure about the 12 weeks but no matter how much night out money your paid switching it from tax free to part of PAYE would work out a similar percentage wage decrease in the short term.
Long term gains can be made providing wage increases are percentage based and night out allowances remain fairly stagnant.
Our place has recently put the meal allowance on the rate, I envisage for simplifying the payslips and saving my employer money in terms of payroll costs it won’t be long before this tax free amount is put on the rate also.
Done right it could work but then we are talking about a tramper rate increase from 9.50 to around 12.00 per hour. Crazy money if you ask me.
Roymondo:
How can they do that? There is nothing at all to indicate that a weeks’ worth of bread/pasta/fruit/cheese was to be consumed while away from home. Day men do the weekly shopping at their local supermarket, as do most families.
They simply look at the itemised receipts and allow up to a certain value, nothing changes in terms of tax free amounts the receipt is just in my mind an acceptable form of proof that drivers are buying stuff for nights away. Tax has already been paid on the stuff they buy, taxing them again would be double taxation.
This is the bit that tips the balance from HMRC’s standpoint - if it was bought while away from home then it appears more likely it was intended for consumption during the trip.
True but it causes totally unnecessary paperwork for the employer/employee and HMRC, a justifiable receipt for a trampers weekly shop should be more than acceptable. Allowing date stamped photos of food is just a nonsense as I’ve shown earlier.
What about trampers like me who are on a health kick and choose to eat their own freshly prepared or home precooked food, no good buying the ingredients in the week, I want to buy and prepare/batch cook the weekend.
Suppose there’s nothing to stop me buying my meals from ■■■ at motorway services everyday and using this receipt, that would be fine.
Which raises a separate question: Why should the tramper be entitled to tax relief on the NO money while the day man is not?
Very true, the day driver should also be entitled to tax relief on food he buys or uses for work or while at work, if he gets a meal allowance that is tax free.
No good just hitting the trampers, all tax free meal allowances should be scrutinised/justified for every profession.
Roymondo:
How can they do that? There is nothing at all to indicate that a weeks’ worth of bread/pasta/fruit/cheese was to be consumed while away from home. Day men do the weekly shopping at their local supermarket, as do most families.
They simply look at the itemised receipts and allow up to a certain value, nothing changes in terms of tax free amounts the receipt is just in my mind an acceptable form of proof that drivers are buying stuff for nights away. Tax has already been paid on the stuff they buy, taxing them again would be double taxation.
This is the bit that tips the balance from HMRC’s standpoint - if it was bought while away from home then it appears more likely it was intended for consumption during the trip.
True but it causes totally unnecessary paperwork for the employer/employee and HMRC, a justifiable receipt for a trampers weekly shop should be more than acceptable. Allowing date stamped photos of food is just a nonsense as I’ve shown earlier.
What about trampers like me who are on a health kick and choose to eat their own freshly prepared or home precooked food, no good buying the ingredients in the week, I want to buy and prepare/batch cook the weekend.
Suppose there’s nothing to stop me buying my meals from ■■■ at motorway services everyday and using this receipt, that would be fine.
Which raises a separate question: Why should the tramper be entitled to tax relief on the NO money while the day man is not?
Very true, the day driver should also be entitled to tax relief on food he buys or uses for work or while at work, if he gets a meal allowance that is tax free.
No good just hitting the trampers, all tax free meal allowances should be scrutinised/justified for every profession.
I still can’t understand how the green death are getting away with paying day men £15 per day tax free meal allowance
The word is that meal allowances are on the HMRC radar. There are a few big players who pay a large meal allowance to avoid paying tax, but it is also prevelent in smaller hauliers. I know it hurts drivers to lose these benefits but it is hauliers that are being targeted by these changes.
Companies cannot be seen to dodge taxes while their competitors pay them.
I just wish drivers would back up all the tough talk they spout on here and Facebook and ACTUALLY do something…
Dipper_Dave:
Wonder if my pornhub premium, xhamster VIP and Felchersandtribbers gold level subscriptions are tax deductable.
But as I’ve got my maths head on here’s some calculations.
Right so £26.20 stuck into wages = £17.80 a day, equating to a take-home loss of £8.40
Say your out 4 nights a week every year, unless your dozy who’s always out 5.
So 52 weeks in a year = 208 nights out
Less holidays 28 days = 180 nights out
So 180 x £8.40 = £1,512
But you will gain £17.80 per day on your holidays = £498.
Therefore give or take £1k per year worse off.
Now looking at allowable expenses for tax reclaim let’s work on £10 per day, meals and bits and bobs.
So that’s £10 x 180 = £1800 for tax reclaim.
20% of £1800 = £360.
Now your only £650 ish a year worse off.
There’s a rogue element with the holiday pay calculations so I’ve guessed a bit.
So allowing for my crap maths and other factors let’s work on £500 a year worse off.
But what if you get pay rises as a percentage of your hourly rate, well now it’s enhanced in the long run so it won’t take long before there’s no difference at all, in fact you might even be better off.
I worked with a woman who went on to become a ■■■■■■■■■■, she could claim tax back on her tatoos, ■■■■■■, leathers, whips etc. But that information might not be appropriate here.
You made a mistake in your calculations Dave.
As it stands, he gets £26.20 × 4 =104.80 per week.
Times that by 47 to take holidays into account gives £4925.60 per year.
If he gets it taxed, he’ll get £17.80 × 4 = 71.20 per week. But for the full year, ×52 = £3702.4
That’s a difference of over £1200. He’ll need to reclaim an awful lot of tax back to cover that.
Darkside:
The word is that meal allowances are on the HMRC radar. There are a few big players who pay a large meal allowance to avoid paying tax, but it is also prevelent in smaller hauliers. I know it hurts drivers to lose these benefits but it is hauliers that are being targeted by these changes.
Companies cannot be seen to dodge taxes while their competitors pay them.
I just wish drivers would back up all the tough talk they spout on here and Facebook and ACTUALLY do something…
My understanding is this:
We are paid £26.20 per night. This is known as subsistence money and is paid to us tax free.
We are then able to claim parking costs back, upon production of a receipt. However, if this receipt shows a meal voucher included in the price, then they deduct £5.00 from our subsistence payment.
(You can apply to HMRC for an approval notice to use the agreed haulage industry scale rate for overnight stays away from home. This is currently £34.90, or 75% of this figure (£26.20) where the driver uses a sleeper cab, and incurs subsistence expenses after starting their journey. These are the maximum amounts that can be paid free of Income Tax and NICs under the agreed industry scale rate. You will also need to have a checking system in place to ensure periodic checks are carried out on a sample of employees. This is to ensure employees are incurring expenses for meals and other subsistence costs while travelling, and that the payment remains a reasonable estimate of the costs usually incurred. A meal is a combination of food and drink in accordance with a normal dictionary meaning of the word.)
In other words, You are entitled to £26.20 per night TAX FREE, you must keep receipts for any meals bought on these nights out and it is up to your company to check these periodically, you cant claim for food bought at a shop when home at weekends, it must be food that you bought on the specific night out, I believe photo graphic evidence of receipt is acceptable now.
the maoster:
If I’m gonna lose then obviously I’ll bite the bullet and continue with going through MSA bins for receipts!
tax evasion is a serious crime, especially on the scale you’re doing it!!! Now, squirrelling millions away in a tax haven? Well, that’s noooo problem at all sir [emoji57]
the maoster:
The situation where I work is that we currently receive £26 per night out, that £26 remains untaxed if we provide a receipt of expenditure for that day ie a few quid for a breakfast or coffees etc. We DO NOT have to account for the full £26, only for “some” personal expenditure. If we don’t provide receipts for a certain day we are taxed for that day somewhere around the £5 mark. Apparently it is not acceptable to go to your local supermarket and get a receipt for your weeks worth of tramping food and bits and bobs.
I’ve been thinking about this recently and I caused a bit of a stir this week when I announced to the office that I’m not prepared to jump through these hoops any longer and from now on will not provide receipts and thus will pay the tax. They were ok with that until I pointed out that therefore my nights out become part of my taxable wages and so must be calculated when paying my holiday pay!
Now all I’ve got to do is sit down and work out the financial implications of doing this. If I’m gonna lose then obviously I’ll bite the bullet and continue with going through MSA bins for receipts!
You are the first I’ve heard of that also do what we are required to do.
When you have a night out you are to get a receipt for any food purchased, evening meal, breakfast, and keep it, your company are supposed to do random checks, that’s all.
It doesn’t have to be equivalent to your night out allowance, but to show you have spent some money.
gothika:
Hi guys i ve heard a rumour that our nights are which are tax free allowance so we can get jobs done rumours saying hmrc are going to start taxing our nights out is this false or true i currently get £26 a night out if this is true its ridiculous as we night out as we are away from home and limited rest thanx for positive responce
Have you just crawled out from a rock ?
This happened last year
to be fair to the op I was told about this months / months after my mates at other companies were
