As I understand it, if ANY of your on-duty time falls between 00:00 and 04:00 then the maximum duty time is 10 hours. You don’t have to be a night man or classed as a “night worker” - it applies to everyone.
If I start at 12:00 and finish at 00:00 then all is well - a 12hr shift and no 10 hour rule applies. If, however, I start at 12:00 and finish at 01:00 (or any time after midnight due to unforeseen delays) what are the implications for that shift or subsequent shifts in terms of maximum duty time, etc?
I regularly work 12 hour nightshifts (23.00 - till roughly 11.00 or 11.30), as do many others at my depot.
As I understand it, you can more than 10 hours on a nightshift if you have a signed agreement to do so with your employer. It’s usually
one of the forms that you have to fill in and sign (along with all the H & S stuff and opting out of the 48 hours) when you commence
your employment with a firm. In other words, you can opt out of the 10 hour rule.
However, let’s assume no collective or workplace agreement is in place and any POA or breaks still mean I’ve worked more than 10 hours.
What then for that shift or subsequent shifts?
If you do not an agreement in place and the total of driving time and other work totals more than 10 hours then that is technically illegal but in reality nobody seems to be bothered about it
However, let’s assume no collective or workplace agreement is in place and any POA or breaks still mean I’ve worked more than 10 hours.
What then for that shift or subsequent shifts?
In that case you’ve fallen foul of the WTD directive. The key here is what do you want to do in future? If you don’t want to work more than 10 hours you can use the WTD as a stick to beat the management with and not work more than 10 hours in future. If however you want to or have no problem with exceeding 10 hours then just crack on safe in the knowledge that the WTD is unmonitored and unenforced. I will add a disclaimer here though; the WTD is currently unenforced but that doesn’t mean that it will stay that way, or even in the event of an accident it will not be used against you.
Bit of a farce really as all it is saying is that by merely signing a workplace agreement exceeding 10 hours work per night has gone from being an unsafe practice to a safe practice!
N
Maoster has it about right. A bit like doing 34mph in a 30 limit. Not a major danger, no great risk of getting fined, but if a kid jumps out in front of you then those 4 little mph will look very serious.
nick2008:
Its 10 hours in a 24hr period so you can’t do 10 and have a 9 off.
One of our depots are doing that at the moment
When does the 24 hour period end?
Well let’s think
If you start at midnight and you can only work 10 hours in 24 er umm that’s midnight before you can start again
So basically you are saying the wtd 24 hours is just that, 24 hours, unlike a tacho reg 24 hours which ends at the end of a daily rest period so doesn’t always last 24 hours.
Is there ANY night job out there that actually adheres to the 10 hour rule & drivers haven’t opted out?
Seems to me like the ruling is a total farce because employees, as a matter of course, are essentially forced to opt out of it when signing up for a job whether they like it or not.
rob22888:
Is there ANY night job out there that actually adheres to the 10 hour rule & drivers haven’t opted out?
Where I work the employees haven’t opted out and consequently don’t exceed 10 hours (more often 6 hours max, paid for 10), the agency night men though have opted out and do considerably more hours.
How many firms out there use this 10 hour rule to dock one’s pay, but not actually do anything in the driver’s favour?
Eg. You start a shift @ 14:00hrs, and get sent out on a 3-hour run around 9pm…
You get stuck on the M25 coming back, and finally book off at 02:30, say.
The firm only pays you until Midnight - because “you cannot legally work past that point, having started at 14:00 hours”
Oddly, the digi download won’t bring up ejecting the card around 02:17hrs - as this “over ten hour” infringement, despite sticking the card in around 14:11hrs, and manual entrying for a start @ 14:00…
rob22888:
Is there ANY night job out there that actually adheres to the 10 hour rule & drivers haven’t opted out?
Where I work the employees haven’t opted out and consequently don’t exceed 10 hours (more often 6 hours max, paid for 10), the agency night men though have opted out and do considerably more hours.
I didn’t think there was an opt out any more, at least not for full-timers?
It is the case that Agency drivers seem to have in their contracts “10 hour limit doesn’t apply. Up to three 15 hour shifts per week can be worked with this agency”.
Thanks ROG, The WTD is a waste of space for drivers, especially when you can still be on duty for 90 hours a week legally.
…And to think that one of the Remoaner biggest bug bears is that “We must protect workers WTD rights” . Actually, I’d rather not bother - because the only “enforcement” of WTD that takes place - only detriments the drivers.
rob22888:
Is there ANY night job out there that actually adheres to the 10 hour rule & drivers haven’t opted out?
Seems to me like the ruling is a total farce because employees, as a matter of course, are essentially forced to opt out of it when signing up for a job whether they like it or not.
We do a MAX 12 hrs if on nights . Another depot have implemented the 10 hrs whilst pay negotiations take place
We are on a ten hour rule at the moment due to pay talks. But its ten hours in a 24 hour period. So whats happening is when you have a rest/break 15/30/45.
At the end of that break/rest. It starts another 24 hour period. So if you have six breaks in a working shift you have six 24 hour periods. So if you start work at
00.00 and have a 15 minute break at 3 am you have to make sure on your next day/night shift that you have a break before or on the same time as your prevous shift to close that 24 hour period. Thats the way we have been told to do it by RHA who monitor our hours .
