I got the free ebook from drivershours.co.uk and I’ve been reacquainting myself with the tacho regs for my return to driving in September, when I came across a rule that says if a driver works between the hours of midnight and 4am, then the total duty time must not exceed 10 hours for that 24hr period.
never heard that one before, is it correct? I worked on nights for dhl a couple of years ago and if it is so then I broke the law on a few occasions.
jbaz73:
I got the free ebook from drivershours.co.uk and I’ve been reacquainting myself with the tacho regs for my return to driving in September, when I came across a rule that says if a driver works between the hours of midnight and 4am, then the total duty time must not exceed 10 hours for that 24hr period.never heard that one before, is it correct? I worked on nights for dhl a couple of years ago and if it is so then I broke the law on a few occasions.
nope
that’s to do with working time directives and then if its a collective agreement with the majority of thr workforce.
just to clarify it’s not a limit on duty time, it’s 10 hours working time which does not include breaks or POA. You could still be on duty and do a 15 hour shift as long as 5 of those hours were break/POA.
To clarify, the ‘10 hr rule’ applies to all night workers unless you sign an ‘opt out’ via a collective / workforce agreement. However the ‘Working Time Directive’ do not apply to self employed drivers as they are exempt under rule 4 of the Act.
To clarify, the above statements are true.[FACE WITH STUCK-OUT TONGUE AND WINKING EYE]
To clarify the above posts are correct except for the last two 
Honestscott76:
However the ‘Working Time Directive’ do not apply to self employed drivers as they are exempt under rule 4 of the Act
Not correct, The Road Transport (Working Time) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 brought self employed drivers in-scope of the RT(WT)R 2005.
I believe you have misconstrued this amendment, as it actually removes self employed from the Regulation and amends 13(2) to read just “employers and workers”
This does not amend Section (4) “These Regulations do not apply to- (a) self employed drivers”
They tried again with EC561/06 & EC3821/85 both of which fail.
We may have to ‘agree to disagree’?
- In regulation 3 (application)—
(a)
after paragraph 3(1), insert—
.
“(1A) These Regulations also apply to self-employed drivers who are established in, or who do work for undertakings established in, a Member State of the European Union, and to whom paragraph (2) or paragraph (3) applies.”(b)
In paragraph 3(2)—
.(i)
after “mobile workers”, insert “or self-employed drivers”; and
.(ii)
for “that employment or work”, substitute “their employment or working activities”.
.(c)
For paragraph (2)(c) substitute—
.
“which are not vehicles exempted from the provisions of that Regulation under regulation 2 of the Community Drivers’ Hours and Recording Equipment Regulations 2007(1)”.(d)
In paragraph 3 (3)—
.(i)
after “mobile workers”, insert “or self-employed drivers”; and
.(ii)
for “that employment or work”, substitute “their employment or working activities”.
.(e)
Delete paragraph 3(4)(a).
.(f)
In the opening words of subparagraph 3(4)(b), and in paragraphs (i) and (ii) of that subparagraph, for the word “worker” each time it occurs substitute “mobile worker or self-employed driver”.
legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012 … ion/4/made
so where is the bit that you disagree with exactly and the wording so it can be seen ie web address ?
Honestscott76:
I believe you have misconstrued this amendment, as it actually removes self employed from the Regulation and amends 13(2) to read just “employers and workers”This does not amend Section (4) “These Regulations do not apply to- (a) self employed drivers”
They tried again with EC561/06 & EC3821/85 both of which fail.
We may have to ‘agree to disagree’?
The only thing we need to agree about is that you’re wrong.
By EC561/06 and EC3821/85 I assume you mean regulations (EC) 561/2006 and (EC) 3821/85 neither of which have anything to do with the working time regulations so I’ve no idea why you would say “They tried again with EC561/06 & EC3821/85 both of which fail” 
Nick has replied to some points so I won’t bother repeating what’s already been posted, I will just refer you to the first sentence of the second paragraph in the explanatory notes which reads "The 2005 Regulations are amended by extending their provisions to self-employed drivers "
Your examples of amendments are unclear. I still stand behind 2005 Regulation and therefore exempt.
I work on various contracts, it wouldn’t be feasible for any one company to monitor my WTD hours. I regularly do 70-80 hours a week earning around the grand mark most weeks.
Any forced reduction in earnings would be against my human rights under current EC regulations.
Honestscott76:
Your examples of amendments are unclear. I still stand behind 2005 Regulation and therefore exempt.
I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that you’re either a troll or a fool, what’s unclear about the examples above ? 
The RT(WT)R 2005 have been amended several times, the amendment linked to above clearly bring self employed drivers in-scope of the working time regulations.
Honestscott76:
Any forced reduction in earnings would be against my human rights under current EC regulations.
Please post a link to this ruling 
He could be BOTH mind 