Gidders:
You can get a surprise filling up in France and Spain.Your bank will be debited with the maximum amount that the fuel point can deliver firstly.Then a day or twp later you will be credited with what you actually fuelled deducted from the first amount.Never known this in the UK.
When the first ‘automatic’ pumps (the ones with the card machines fixed to the pump) appeared, it happened quite a lot. Not sure if it still happens now as I avoid them.
Gidders:
You can get a surprise filling up in France and Spain.Your bank will be debited with the maximum amount that the fuel point can deliver firstly.Then a day or twp later you will be credited with what you actually fuelled deducted from the first amount.Never known this in the UK.
Maybe along the lines of the pre payment thing which has been ongoing for years.You guess how much you need then give them that much in cash or card debit first.If you guess high ( usually ) they then refund the difference.Which from memory was common in the US before it came to Euroland.
If you think that’s a pain I had my card closed down for security reasons more than once in one trip because my bank didn’t believe it could be used across so many borders in a matter of hours. 
With not enough cash to make it home without it.In addition to massive phone charges for calls to the emergency number while put on hold to get the card unlocked.Also had an unmanned auto peage toll take my card and refuse to give it back and then having to explain it to the peage operators on the emergency intercom.The result being that they couldn’t understand me and me blocking the gate for what seemed like ages until the thing suddenly gave the card back and opened the gate,while being both moaned at or laughed at in equal amounts by those behind me. In addition to an off motorway automated fuel pump that refused to recognise my PIN leaving me one more chance then it would shut my card down for ‘security’ reasons.Luckily explained to me just in time by an English speaking local who,unlike me,could understand the machine’s instructions.So I drove off to find another place and ( very ) luckily eventually found a garage that was open and manned which could take cash.That’s just with a car type fuel consumption let alone if it was a truck.The fuel situation and unmanned peage controls in France at least can be a nightmare now in that regard.
Captain Caveman 76:
Gidders:
You can get a surprise filling up in France and Spain.Your bank will be debited with the maximum amount that the fuel point can deliver firstly.Then a day or twp later you will be credited with what you actually fuelled deducted from the first amount.Never known this in the UK.When the first ‘automatic’ pumps (the ones with the card machines fixed to the pump) appeared, it happened quite a lot. Not sure if it still happens now as I avoid them.
Generally only buy the bunker fuel in the yard but do have to splash the bottom of the tank on the return leg but im the same i only pay in shop with cash or debit card and avoid the card pumps.
peirre:
Socketset:
My wife presented me with a metal credit/debit card holder recently to put all your cards in - like a clamshell thingy.She’d heard somewhere that perps can scan your cards as you carry them around like in a wallet for example.
I must say I’ve never really figured this out but these holders are out there for people to use.
They use an android phone such as the Samsung galaxy with the S-beam feature (or any other android phone with similar features), which enables RFID data transfer at close range, a feature originally intended for users to swop photos etc when they touched phones, the phone has been hacked and an app called NFCproxy added sourceforge.net/projects/nfcproxy/. This then enables the phone to become a contactless card reader at close quarters, so someone holding the phone could walk next to you and collect the data from the card via the chip inc the cvv number, the app can then be switched to it’s other mode and become a transmitter enabling the user to use the data at a contactless terminal as an apple/android pay device. So you could be stood at the bar at Wetherspoon’s and the bloke next to you could scan you wallet as they brush past you, and pay for their order with your money.
It takes 5-10 mins with the phone connected to a laptop to get this app workingNow all I have to do now is get near the transport managers wallet and save me paying out of my own wallet for parking the wagon in the Services
They could scan your wallet for any cards, what you need is an RFID Wallet.
koruma.co.uk/eng_m_RFID-Wallets-196.html
Or just look on Amazon for RFID Wallets
yourhavingalarf:
Your phone must…Be unlocked to utilise the Android pay feature.
Anyone who doesn’t lock their phone is a mug.
And most new phones now are unlocked via fingerprint so even more secure
i know nuffink about iphones
AndrewG:
the maoster:
I utilise a very simple technique to protect myself from these fraudsters; the moment money goes into my account I immediately withdraw it and spend it on hookers, drugs and booze! No way these lowlives are getting one over on me, no Siree.maoster, the forum financial advisor…
Trouble is, that’s what might appear on the bank statement - but it wasn’t you getting your lips and willy wet for that money spent! 
Conor:
Wow there’s a whole load of tin foil bollox in that post.They cannot clone your card with the card number and the 3 digit code off the back. They could at worst make a magstrip card but as retailers use chip and pin then they couldn’t use the card in a card machine. If they tried to buy goods online then it may be possible for low amounts but payments would likely be rejected because they didn’t have the correct card holder address and for more expensive things they’re not going to have the password or date of birth which are both needed in order to pass the “Verify by Visa” etc authentication.
Given the fact the retailers make next to nothing on night hours the solution for them would be simple, close on a night.
Actually, you don’t even need to clone the card as a physical card. All you need are the numbers, the data, and the 3 digit number on the back written on the back of an envelope - when it comes to buying goods and services on the internet.
Not every place that takes card payments uses “Verisign” or other stuff that makes you insert your card into a machine given to you by your bank.
Basically, there’s nothing to stop anyone registering a card, buying goods and services of a type that involves no actual physical delivery to the real cardholder’s address (Eg. call and collect/on line gaming/financial services/online subscriptions/etc) and all you get asked for is the “cardholder not present” number off the back (but now just written down on a bit of paper.)
NO firm online taking card payments does the obvious - and insists upon a Skype-style live pic of the card user for the retailer to compare to a mugshot given to them by the banks.
It’s almost as if the banks don’t want to risk slowing down “the velocity of money” by hampering purchases with “too much security”!
I hear that purchases of cars are now subject to “no cash payment” rules. I bet there are plenty of dealers who “won’t ask questions” though.! If you turned up to buy a spanking brand new car, and got short shrift from a dealer who won’t take cash - I bet everyone and his dog knows another dealer that does. 
Dork Lard:
So if my card is cloned . . . Am I going to lose all my money?
I’ve had my card cloned and also business cards cloned, the fraud was picked up by the card company before I knew anything about it, they stopped the cards and contacted me to ask me if it was my purchase, when I told them it wasn’t they carried out an investigation, once they were satisfied it was fraud I or the company got the money back.
They have some pretty sophisticated systems to detect fraud, I tried to buy some food at a services in Italy on Sunday night and the card was declined, within seconds I got a text message asking me if I’d tried to make that purchase. Once I’d confirmed it my card was re-instated.
Mazzer2:
Never use a place that has a night window if they can’t be bothered to open why should I be bothered to use them, a classic example is the shell at the Moss would have had people using it all night then it went night hatch, takings have dropped dramatically yet they still have to employ a guy to work there all night.
Do you think they have a night window, just because they can’t be bothered to open the shop at night?
muckles:
Dork Lard:
So if my card is cloned . . . Am I going to lose all my money?I’ve had my card cloned and also business cards cloned, the fraud was picked up by the card company before I knew anything about it, they stopped the cards and contacted me to ask me if it was my purchase, when I told them it wasn’t they carried out an investigation, once they were satisfied it was fraud I or the company got the money back.
They have some pretty sophisticated systems to detect fraud, I tried to buy some food at a services in Italy on Sunday night and the card was declined, within seconds I got a text message asking me if I’d tried to make that purchase. Once I’d confirmed it my card was re-instated.
When my card was cloned they started off with small purchases then larger ones until the account was empty. Mainly phone cards IIRC. Bank was really good and gave me an interest free overdraft until they refunded the money. Took a few weeks though.
Many Asda filling stations do not have a shop, only a pay booth as you exit the pumps. I have filled up at Eastbourne and Grantham Asda’s in the last week and both offered me the credit card machine to use my card and enter the pin, the card did not leave the confines of my car, so I cannot see how I could be caught using this method.
We’re talking about night pay where the normal open shop has had it’s door lock “to offer security for the lone member of staff on the till”.
You pass your card under the counter loop, they stick it in the machine, and pass the entire machine out to you. Meanwhile, the hidden camera of which I speak has been flashed both sides of the card, which only need be flipped over whilst the cashier takes it out of the loop drawer, and slots it into the machine before passing it back to you to enter your pin.
The bottom line is that the pin number is NOT required and is NOT harvested. Those looking for the “security breach” will be looking for something snapping them entering the pin…
All that is required to order goods and services online though - is the 3 digit number “card holder not present” on the back of the card.
Armed with the front and back numbers - you can order anything you want on line, and as long as it doesn’t need anything mailed to the cardholder’s actual address (by defaut, where say, amazon orders would be posted) then you could pay for all kinds of stuff with someone else’s money - and they wouldn’t even realize they’ve been robbed until they see a hard copy statement with transactions like “Driving Lesson, Leeds” or “Pub Meal, Bradford” or even “Cross Channel Ferry Foot Passengers” who don’t ask to see your passport to compare with your boarding passes any more (lax security there as well alas…)
It’s all about being able to spend money for instant delivery of goods and services - no quibble, because the original card holder doesn’t even know they’ve been robbed !
With Spanish cards you dont even need to input the pin number when buying goods over the counter, in goes the card and receipt will print out. Lose your card and literally anyone can use it!
AndrewG:
With Spanish cards you dont even need to input the pin number when buying goods over the counter, in goes the card and receipt will print out. Lose your card and literally anyone can use it!
I concur. I noticed that in Tesco self-service checkout the other day - that if you swipe the card rather than insert it, no pin number was requested. 
I don’t know if there is some kind of “Floor limit” in many retail outlets for this apparent lax security when it comes to swiping not asking for a pin to be input.
If you stick the card in the machine (both options available) - then sure. You get asked for the pin.
Winseer:
It’s all about being able to spend money for instant delivery of goods and services - no quibble, because the original card holder doesn’t even know they’ve been robbed !
The cardholder isn’t being robbed, the bank is being robbed.
Dork Lard:
Winseer:
It’s all about being able to spend money for instant delivery of goods and services - no quibble, because the original card holder doesn’t even know they’ve been robbed !The cardholder isn’t being robbed, the bank is being robbed.
While that may be true once the dust has settled, it doesn’t exactly help you when the scammers have cleared out your current account and you go to pay for the week’s groceries (or a tank of fuel) to be told that your card has been declined and you are standing in front of the cashier with no means of paying for those goods. When it happened to us, we were in the fortunate position of having other cards we could use while the banks went through their fraudulent transactions procedure. Many others (especially those of limited means) do not enjoy such luxuries.
Pay by a card that isn’t linked to your bank account.
These days you can get a pre pay credit card if you don’t already have a credit card of your own.
Winseer:
We’re talking about night pay where the normal open shop has had it’s door lock “to offer security for the lone member of staff on the till”.You pass your card under the counter loop, they stick it in the machine, and pass the entire machine out to you. Meanwhile, the hidden camera of which I speak has been flashed both sides of the card, which only need be flipped over whilst the cashier takes it out of the loop drawer, and slots it into the machine before passing it back to you to enter your pin.
The bottom line is that the pin number is NOT required and is NOT harvested. Those looking for the “security breach” will be looking for something snapping them entering the pin…
All that is required to order goods and services online though - is the 3 digit number “card holder not present” on the back of the card.
Armed with the front and back numbers - you can order anything you want on line, and as long as it doesn’t need anything mailed to the cardholder’s actual address (by defaut, where say, amazon orders would be posted) then you could pay for all kinds of stuff with someone else’s money - and they wouldn’t even realize they’ve been robbed until they see a hard copy statement with transactions like “Driving Lesson, Leeds” or “Pub Meal, Bradford” or even “Cross Channel Ferry Foot Passengers” who don’t ask to see your passport to compare with your boarding passes any more (lax security there as well alas…)
It’s all about being able to spend money for instant delivery of goods and services - no quibble, because the original card holder doesn’t even know they’ve been robbed !
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