Chatting to our artic driver this morning, he said on his way down this morning he saw an artic in front of him weaving from side to side, and when he went past him he looked over and saw the driver was struggling to keep his eyes open, and his head was dropping then snapping back up again. Luckily our chap got by him ok, and since I didn’t hear about any road closures on the M1 due to an HGV driver having a nap I guess everything was fine.
But our driver was asking me if he should have done something, you know like a recognised protocol he should follow, or a unwritten HGV code he should have adhered to? I just shrugged and said I hadn’t seen that before and wouldn’t know, what, if anything, I should do if I did see it.
So come on old hands, have we both missed a trick here? Or is the general consensus, get by swiftly or drop right back, in case the nodding head becomes a full on power nap at 55mph?
It takes half a second to fall asleep at the wheel.
Opening windows , singing, dancing on the seat, drinking coffee or energy drinks , throwing water in your face do not work.
This is the reason I hate booking times at Rdc,s.
Load rejection being half an hour late.
If it was me in your friends position F-reds I’d have wanted to be past pdq working on the assumption that I prefer carnage behind me as opposed to in front! However I would not have phoned the old bill, Hilary Clinton or The Pope because firstly I’m not a policeman and secondly there could’ve been a perfectly innocent explanation such as he had his fave heavy metal cd on and was merely getting into the spirit of it.
I probably would have given him a long blast of my horn as I passed to let him know that I felt that his driving standards left a tad to be desired.
I don’t like the move towards treating “tiredness” the same as “drunk driving”.
NHS will affect EVERY driver who’s working more than 10 hours on nights. THAT is supposed to be what the rule was put there for - but it gets circumvented by breaks and POA being taken off that total…
So: If you have a ten hour duty, but then get stuck on the M25 for three hours on POA… Guess what? - You’re legit under the daft rules - but you’re now doing a 14 hour shift instead, finishing around school run time - and speaking from personal experience here - THAT is the absolute worst time to have nodding dog… In the busy morning rush hour traffic.
In my mind POA should be banned from being used “like this”. Ie to extend a shift’s hours in a way that would otherwise be illegal on “other work”.
the maoster:
If it was me in your friends position F-reds I’d have wanted to be past pdq.
I probably would have given him a long blast of my horn as I passed to let him know that I felt that his driving standards left a tad to be desired.
Pretty much sums up my initial reaction to the question too. I was curious as to whether being a relatively fresh faced and minor license holder, I was somehow not privy to a Jedi trick or two!
The only time I’ve ever rung the police was to report debris on a motorway, I don’t trust my judgement on anything else!
If it’s exactly as you describe it then how did your mate know it was just tiredness. It could have been alcohol, drugs or the driver could have even been ill.
However the important thing here is yes your mate got past nice and safe. What about your wife and kids who meet said artic 10 minutes down the road?
I’m not one for reporting to the authorities over something minor but if it’s as you describe then it should have been reported even if it’s just to make sure the drivers fit and well.
It obviously bothered your mate that much that he asked your advise!
Concerned motorists report drunk tipper truck driver 25 July 2016 - Tayside and Central Scotland A tipper truck driver was caught six times over the legal drink drive limit after concerned members of the public contacted police. The vehicle was stopped on the M80 at Pirnhall, near Stirling, on Friday, where the 49-year-old driver failed a roadside breath test. He was due to appear at Falkirk Sheriff Court on Monday. Police Scotland said two other motorists are also due to appear in court for drink driving offences. A 48-year-old man was found to be more than seven times the drink drive limit after being stopped and breathalysed in Alloa on Saturday. Another man, who was driving with two children in the vehicle, was charged after failing a breath test on Saturday. Insp Roddy MacMillan said: "I am very disappointed to note that each driver was substantially over the drink drive limit. "I want to reiterate our message, that no amount of alcohol is safe when you are getting behind the wheel of a car. “Anyone found to be driving over the limit will be charged, will go to court and will lose their driving licence and possibly their livelihood.”
Winseer:
I don’t like the move towards treating “tiredness” the same as “drunk driving”.
NHS will affect EVERY driver who’s working more than 10 hours on nights. THAT is supposed to be what the rule was put there for - but it gets circumvented by breaks and POA being taken off that total…
So: If you have a ten hour duty, but then get stuck on the M25 for three hours on POA… Guess what? - You’re legit under the daft rules - but you’re now doing a 14 hour shift instead, finishing around school run time - and speaking from personal experience here - THAT is the absolute worst time to have nodding dog… In the busy morning rush hour traffic.
In my mind POA should be banned from being used “like this”. Ie to extend a shift’s hours in a way that would otherwise be illegal on “other work”.
Er - POA is not allowed to be used in the circumstances you describe, as the driver does not know the duration in advance. Having said that, many places have workplace agreements in place which allow working more than 10hrs on nights anyway.
It might not be allowed - but c’mon - that’s exactly how it gets used to extend one’s legal working limit of “at work” hours on nights.
The firm will of course pretend they don’t know it goes on. If you roll back in at breakfast time after 12+ hours out there - then the main reason for one being late is going to be motorway closures - right?
So that closure loses you say, an hour - which you then make up later by sticking it on POA whilst on a bay being tipped. Normally, you would have already had a break, and it would not be necessary to book any POA at all during the “known” long tip. I avoid using POA on nights like the plague - because I don’t want to be working 12-15 bloody hours and only salaried for 9-10! Needs must though - to “stay legal” and you’ve effectively delegated away any comeback over the unpaid overtime that goes with salaried jobs.
It’s all too easy now for firms to dock your pay at the drop of a hat for “non compliance” or “digging in and holding out for your right to keep to your contracted hours” for example.
So… If you’re paid 8-10 hours, but you constantly end up working 12-15 - it’s “like it - or resign. If you go on strike/withdraw labour in any shape or form we’ll dock you the full day’s pay - but we won’t actually sack you. Each piece of resistance you show - costs you money, but we’ll never actually boot you so you can sue us”.
I’m sick of working 50-60 hours every week. It was bad enough when overtime got capped at the 48 hour week mark. Salaried though it’s now not even with the overtime FFS.
“Compliance” only seems to be looking at driving hours - NOT actual time spent AT WORK. That’s “the time you turn up for work to the time you go home” rather than the 12-15 hours minus all the POA and breaks - taking your working week “on paper” down to a nice 48 hour week all nice and legal. (but you’ve been at work 60 hours that week, and over 50 hours at work for 10 of the last weeks during the same reference period!)
I challenge anyone to be anything other than a zombie by thursday morning’s “yet another morning rush hour home leg”. THAT is a danger to driver and the public alike - but no one in officialdom seems to give a toss.
^^^
If you are running out of time and legally unable to use POA isn’t the answer a phone call to the taffic office from Thurrock services to say that the night trunk will not be back today because you are out of hours and parked up for a “night” out. You will run in after your 9/11hrs rest period.
Winseer:
I don’t like the move towards treating “tiredness” the same as “drunk driving”.
NHS will affect EVERY driver who’s working more than 10 hours on nights.
I don’t get it any more since I started keeping my sleep pattern for nights on a weekend. Then again I’ve spent most of my time driving trucks on nights. Must admit that I did 3 weeks on days before I went on holiday and haven’t felt this wide awake for years.
I’m not going to quote your whole post, Winseer - But your issue appears to be with salaried vs hourly paid rather than the specific problem under discussion of NHS. The answer to that one is simple - Don’t use POA. If that causes low-level grief from your employer then either deal with that or move on.
As for your original suggestion that the use of POA should be banned on nights, (presumably along with rigid enforcement of the 10 hour working time limit - no opting-out), don’t you see that this could actually encourage blokes to drive while tired? e.g. If they’ve been delayed during the night and now find themselves with a 2 hour drive back to base with only a little more than 2 hours to go before their 10 hours “total time at work” is up, they’d be under pressure to keep going rather than doing the sensible thing and pulling in for a 30 minute snooze.
