New Years honours or monkey and Adams hijack

adam277:
You keep referencing the BBC link like it is a smoking gun lol.
Iraqi’s protesting by dancing or running a 5k marathon. - Sure Sadam would of delt with that just fine.
The protestors want less corrupt politicans. I think that is a reasonable aim.
The only reason these protests can even take place is because Sadam is dead.

Just to be clear. Are you arguing that it was better we did not depose Sadam and you wish he was still in power?

I was happy to discuss N.I in relation to the good friday agreement and Blair’s role in it. I did not want to start chatting about the morality of the IRA and dive deep into it though. The only reason I mentioned it was as an example of a positive thing Tony Blair did. Your counter-argument was pretty weak. In which you basically implied he was at the right place at the right time and that any other prime minister would of done the same. I think the point is they didnt. John Major could of got an agreement but he would not.
As for bringing Syria into it. I was just drawing parrells with Blair’s apporach to conflict in the middle east to Cameron’s. Which approach do you think is better?

I haven’t lost a single point in this debate. To be fair neither have you. We just keep moving the goal posts from discussing Tony Blair to other issues.

Yep I sterotype black men in the same manner.
and Jewish people.
and truckers who are both fat and lazy.
I find you a poor debater.

Blair did try to rebuild Iraq. There is no denying that.
As for not arresting looters. It was so long ago and is such a specific example I dont see how it is relavant to the overall point. But, I did take the time to google.
nytimes.com/2003/05/14/worl … oters.html
Maybe there was some politics involved.
Either way we go back to poor planning by UK and US governments.

I’m glad you have many academic achievments. I have none.

I keep referring to the BBC link to highlight the idiocy of associating it with the argument provided in that post[emoji1787]

You argue life is better now (with little evidence) despite now being 20 years later. The fact is that for most of that 20 years life was SUBSTANTIALLY worse.

If it is better NOW there is no direct correlation between Saddam being removed, subsequent events that MAY or MAY NOT have occurred.

Major couldn’t have got an agreement? Nor would Blair without the IRA being beaten militarily. Something falling into his lap is different to forcing it through.
The GFA is deeply flawed and nor has the IRA gone away. You appear to applaud an agreement that allows murderers a free pass on one side whilst demanding justice on another.
That’s either cowardice and hypocrisy - choose which applies to you best.

You find me a poor debater = yet here you are, ■■■■■■■ in knots.

You highlight poor planning by US and UK govts whilst denying Blair’s responsibility. Remind me who was the PM at the time of the invasion and for several years after.

You have no qualifications? Yet soldiers are thick? I asked you to qualify that statement which you failed to do. I’d ask what qualifies you to judge others? As an adjunct, this ex squaddie (I prefer [emoji205] monkey) is degree qualified from a time when degrees weren’t bought and less than 1 in 12 went to uni.

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blue estate:
Thanks to the usual suspects this thread is now irrelevant as the whole thing has been hijacked and totally taken off tangent by 2 socks

Bless

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blue estate:
Thanks to the usual suspects this thread is now irrelevant as the whole thing has been hijacked and totally taken off tangent by 2 socks

Quite agree :stuck_out_tongue: My apolgies. These ex army guys get quite sensitive :stuck_out_tongue:

I keep referring to the BBC link to highlight the idiocy of associating it with the argument provided in that post

My argument is simple. That Iraq is better than under Sadam. I maintain that and you have done nothing to disprove that other than attempt to belittle me.

You argue life is better now (with little evidence) despite now being 20 years later. The fact is that for most of that 20 years life was SUBSTANTIALLY worse.

You say I only give little proof. Well this is a trucknet forum. Not a university graded assignment that requires academic references. But, if I am to be pedantic. Although I may not of provided much proof. You have provided zero proof that life is now worse in Iraq for most of its citizens.

If it is better NOW there is no direct correlation between Saddam being removed, subsequent events that MAY or MAY NOT have occurred.

There is a direct correlation obviously. Your argument being that they would be in the exact same position or better off under Sadam has no basis in fact. As we do not know what Iraq would be like if he was still in power. It’s just a what-if. But feel free to see what he has done historically, chances are it would of involved more bloodshed.

Major couldn’t have got an agreement? Nor would Blair without the IRA being beaten militarily. Something falling into his lap is different to forcing it through.

It did not fall into his lap. From what I have read it was something ruled out by Major. Apparently Major even admitted privately that the IRA could not be beat.

The GFA is deeply flawed and nor has the IRA gone away. You appear to applaud an agreement that allows murderers a free pass on one side whilst demanding justice on another.
That’s either cowardice and hypocrisy - choose which applies to you best.

I think if you shoot a child it is cowardice and much worse. But I am sure you can educate me on the rules of engagement and how that justifies it.
I applaud an agreement that brings about peace. It is not fair no. But it is holding up still.

You find me a poor debater = yet here you are, ■■■■■■■ in knots.

I’m in no knots if so please point them out so I can untangle them :wink:

You highlight poor planning by US and UK govts whilst denying Blair’s responsibility. Remind me who was the PM at the time of the invasion and for several years after.

No, you misunderstood me. Blair is 110% responsible for the poor planning. Blair has a lot of blame when it comes to Iraq. I think his intent was good. How he carried it out was poor. No sane person would argue that war in Iraq went well.

You have no qualifications? Yet soldiers are thick? I asked you to qualify that statement which you failed to do. I’d ask what qualifies you to judge others? As an adjunct, this ex squaddie (I prefer monkey) is degree qualified from a time when degrees weren’t bought and less than 1 in 12 went to uni.

I have a penatly shoot-out award, and I think an E in GCSE Science. Might of been ungraded. I also got a forklift licence.
But to quote Henry Kissenger who taught at Harvard, has a PHD and was Secretary of State “Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.”

edit:
ps I am quite tired when I wrote this so feel free to point out any grammar / spelling errors to prove your point of how stupid I am.

That’s it?

Military men are quite sensitive says you [emoji6]

You do realise Kissinger was ex military?
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Monkey241:
That’s it?

Military men are quite sensitive says you [emoji6]

You do realise Kissinger was ex military?
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

youtube.com/watch?v=LPquarz16wQ
they can be :stuck_out_tongue:

Enjoy the video its funny :grimacing:

And thank you for your service. :exclamation:

adam277:

Monkey241:
That’s it?

Military men are quite sensitive says you [emoji6]

You do realise Kissinger was ex military?
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

youtube.com/watch?v=LPquarz16wQ
they can be [emoji14]

Enjoy the video its funny :grimacing:

And thank you for your service. :exclamation:

Is funny like your history?

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Monkey241:

adam277:

Monkey241:
That’s it?

Military men are quite sensitive says you [emoji6]

You do realise Kissinger was ex military?
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

youtube.com/watch?v=LPquarz16wQ
they can be [emoji14]

Enjoy the video its funny :grimacing:

And thank you for your service. :exclamation:

Is funny like your history?

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

If you say so.

adam277:

Monkey241:

adam277:

Monkey241:
That’s it?

Military men are quite sensitive says you [emoji6]

You do realise Kissinger was ex military?
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

youtube.com/watch?v=LPquarz16wQ
they can be [emoji14]

Enjoy the video its funny :grimacing:

And thank you for your service. :exclamation:

Is funny like your history?

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

If you say so.

SSgt in WW2.
Yes. I do say so [emoji6]

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Before this thread is locked or prescribed for insomnia. I am going to do a typical Jeremy Clarkson and say,

This is what I think. I do not believe it is in the public interest to give Tony Blair a Knighthood and a Garter.

Afghanistan were invaded by the Soviet Union in 1979, ten tears later the USSR had lost 15000 troops on the ground, defeated by a bunch of hill farmers called mujahidin. mujahidin developed into a force to be reckoned with, they collected all the Russian weapons and had a supply chain from the USA with some bloke called called Osama Bin Laden heading up sales.

The IRA had more ceasefires than Status Quo had hits which were interrupted by Warrington, Birmingham Pub Bombings, London, Manchester and Osnabruck. The Good Friday Agreement was a long drawn out affair which began with John Major. Albert Reynolds and Father Ted

Saddam. Ceausescu, Gaddafi, Amin. Stalin. Pol Pot. Kim II Sung. Hitler. Khomeini and several other faces, kept their own people in check for decades, this was only spoiled by Tripadvisor and Cliff Michelmore

Jeff is spot on

youtu.be/Kz5qOqNoXPE

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rearaxle:
Jeff is spot on

youtu.be/Kz5qOqNoXPE

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Ye I totally agree with him.
I think its important to add the reason that chris whitty and jonathan van tam got included for honours was to try and make people respect what they say a bit more in an attempt to increase vaccine uptake.