My employer is trying to change our work rota from a 4 day rolling week back to 5 days but this would mean we do a 5,5,4,4 rota and would be forced to reduce our weekly rest to 24 hrs!
I am under the impression you cant be forced to reduce your rest as only you know how fit you are to drive! having spoken to someone they mention article 12 - not sure what that is or where to find it??
Anyone know what article 12 is? driving hours legislation?
I’ve no idea as to article 12 - maybe tachograph, coffeeholic or geebee45 can enlighten you on this 
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As for changing your work pattern - that would come under your contract and what it says in it.
If you do not have a written contract you have worked the original shift pattern for some time, then that pattern is your deemed contract.
Contracts cannot be changed by one side only but they can be changed by a ‘majority agreement’ on both sides.
demonbiker:
My employer is trying to change our work rota from a 4 day rolling week back to 5 days but this would mean we do a 5,5,4,4 rota and would be forced to reduce our weekly rest to 24 hrs!
I’m a little confused…
Are you saying that you do 4 on, 4 off at the moment and they are wanting to change it to 5 on, 5 off, 4 on, 4 off 
we 4 days on sundays off, 2 rest days change on a rolling week ie
mon,tues rest wk1, tues wed rest wk2 wed thur rest wk3… till we get fri,sat,sun,monday off, then sat sun mon tues,
Article 12 of REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 deals with driving over hours in unforeseen circumstances, so it’s not that.
As far as I can see Article 12 and section12 of the WTD 2002 and WTD 2005 are totally irrelevant to what you’re talking about so that’s not much help either.
On the whole I think you would probably need to see what your contract of employment says.
I know some people say that you can’t be forced to reduce the weekly rest period but to be honest I doubt it’s ever been decided by law.
demonbiker:
we 4 days on sundays off, 2 rest days change on a rolling week ie
mon,tues rest wk1, tues wed rest wk2 wed thur rest wk3… till we get fri,sat,sun,monday off, then sat sun mon tues,
I’m a bit thick so lets see if I got this correct…
At present - Work 4 days then have 2 off on a repeating pattern.
They are proposing 5 days on then 2 days off for 2 weeks then 4 days on then 2 days off for the next 2 weeks and then it goes back to the 5 days on again
ROG:
I’m a bit thick so lets see if I got this correct…
Dont slag yourself off rog… thats our job!!!
ROG:
At present - Work 4 days then have 2 off on a repeating pattern.They are proposing 5 days on then 2 days off for 2 weeks then 4 days on then 2 days off for the next 2 weeks and then it goes back to the 5 days on again
that seems perfectly legal as long as it is within your contract because you are always getting at least 45 hours off before starting work again during every rest period plus you are not doing more than 6 shifts in any one working week (between rest periods.
personaly i cant see what your problem is? a lot of people would be happy with this arrangement, at least it means you wont be away for 5 nights every other week
Giblsa:
ROG:
I’m a bit thick so lets see if I got this correct…Dont slag yourself off rog… thats our job!!!
Giblsa:
ROG:
At present - Work 4 days then have 2 off on a repeating pattern.They are proposing 5 days on then 2 days off for 2 weeks then 4 days on then 2 days off for the next 2 weeks and then it goes back to the 5 days on again
that seems perfectly legal as long as it is within your contract because you are always getting at least 45 hours off before starting work again during every rest period plus you are not doing more than 6 shifts in any one working week (between rest periods.
personaly i cant see what your problem is? a lot of people would be happy with this arrangement, at least it means you wont be away for 5 nights every other week
This is assuming that we have got the work pattern correct 
Basically all i need to know is if they can force you to reduce your weekly rest?
if they rota you so you only get 24hrs rest one week, yes it can be paid back but the point is we dont want to be forced to reduce rest when we dont want to!
No nights out all multidrop days only, 15 hr days is pretty normal!!
they are trying to get average hours of drivers up as we are on salary and most guys blast round route- drop and finish so avg hours is down !
demonbiker:
Basically all i need to know is if they can force you to reduce your weekly rest?if they rota you so you only get 24hrs rest one week, yes it can be paid back but the point is we dont want to be forced to reduce rest when we dont want to!
No nights out all multidrop days only, 15 hr days is pretty normal!!
they are trying to get average hours of drivers up as we are on salary and most guys blast round route- drop and finish so avg hours is down !
That explains a lot
Look into your contract as suggested already - it’s the only way out as far as I can see as there does not SEEM to be a LAW that says anything about forcing a reduced weekly rest onto a driver.
I’m not surprised that there does not seem to be that law as it is not ILLEGAL for the driver to take such a reduced rest period - wish these things had been sorted but it will probably take a court case to do so now 
demonbiker:
Basically all i need to know is if they can force you to reduce your weekly rest?
As several others have said - it depends entirely on your contract of employment. There is nothing in the drivers laws to stop them.
Paul
contracted for 55 hrs per week paid same if we do 60 or we do 15, on salary!
What we are all trying to say is that if you contract stipulates a shift pattern or that you get certain days off or so on than they cannot change it. If it doesn’t, then they can do pretty much what they like as long as it is within the hours regulations.
You essentially have 3 choices.
Paul
repton:
What we are all trying to say is that if you contract stipulates a shift pattern or that you get certain days off or so on than they cannot change it. If it doesn’t, then they can do pretty much what they like as long as it is within the hours regulations.
Unless you have been doing this regular pattern of shifts for quite a while, in which case that pattern is ‘Deemed as your contracted shift pattern’ - does not have to be in writing.
UNLESS A WRITTEN CONTRACT STATES OTHER.
Is it just me that is failing to see where under the proposed shift pattern the drivers will only be getting a 24-hour weekly rest period? There always seems to be at least 2 days off between finishing one rota and starting the next.
Coffeeholic:
Is it just me that is failing to see where under the proposed shift pattern the drivers will only be getting a 24-hour weekly rest period? There always seems to be at least 2 days off between finishing one rota and starting the next.
i can only see 48 hours rest (at least) everytime as well!
might be a 5 5 5 4 shift, could have got it wrong as dont have proposal form here, we have had the 4day rota for 2 years so its deemed as our contract hours as you say, drivers obviously dont want to go back to 5 days!
OOOOOOOOOOps, meant to say Article 10 (of 561/2006) but you know that now. In defence of my error it has been a long week 
Cannot be right all the time, now there’s a confession. 
Be very careful what action you take on this as firstly see what your contract of employment says regarding working / scheduled hours.
Secondly although it has not been tested in a court of law (to my knowledge) the 24hr reduced (or any other reduced) weekly / daily rest is “optional” and at the drivers discretion unless it is in your contract.
But most importantly on this one beware of a little known phrase in the legal jargon called “The Needs of The Business” as some time ago (before we were made redundant) the drivers & w/house staff at the co. I worked for voted to reject what the co. tried to get us to accept and then they came up with the bully boy tactic of the phrase I just used above and to rub salt in the wound they said have another vote to “Accept” the new terms and conditions or we will give 90 days notice of the new terms & conditions and will enforce them “legally” with no redundancy or job losses and if you refuse to accept them you will be in breach of your contract and may result in dismissal for gross misconduct!