How will it work with the larger haulage companies that have eu registered trucks and UK ones, i.e stobbies, swains etc, will they have the best of both worlds?
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Except it would be in the interest of the UK domestic market to implement those new rules regardless of our relationship with the EU.Ahh !
Now we have it.
I agree with you that it would be beneficial to UK drivers and transport companies generally to go along with these rules, however a Government may prefer to have cheaper transport, (wherever it comes from) and drive down wages in a “more competitive Britain”?
Cheaper food, products, cheaper “more flexible labour” (more insecure) is the future I’m afraid.In that aspect the UK is no different to the EU hence the mini Bulgaria in Zeebrugge probably over several hundred BG and RO trucks pulling for Lidl out of there permanently based there avoiding cabotage by going into the surrounding countries, or the hundreds of Hegelmann lorries running through France on domestic work. The EU is no less capitalist than the UK when it comes to appeasing big business the vast majority of big names in Europe use BG and RO for their work and when new countries enter they will be used and the BG and RO firms will be dropped for them in the same way the Poles were dropped for the BG and RO companies
The EU is alike the UK in many ways, but to describe it as being “equally capitalist”?
I’m not so sure.
We are after all discussing proposed measures to help established driver’s jobs.
Can you see the present, or indeed any recent UK Govs doing the same?
Seems to me that ever since Thatcher, industry and long term investments have been shunned in favour of short term-ism and chasing a quick buck.
Maybe most of the free world is more capitalist than it was decades ago, but I think the UK is going further and faster along that road than many of our EU neighbours. Look at Prof Minford one of the few economists who favours Brexit: he thinks the UK will be better off out. He also thinks industry and farming will be lost, but Hey-ho! The city will thrive!
A richer country, but not for the benefit of all of it’s citizens.
Perhaps the EU disguises it a bit better and isn’t so blatant about it, it doesn’t seem to concerned about importing cheap labour from outside of the EU either or that wages have stagnated and dropped in southern Europe. That trans info site has some interesting videos about driver exploitation by Europe’s big multi nationals Ikea and the German car industry being among the worst.
Just to add perhaps now that he is no longer head of the EU perhaps the UK government could hire Jean Claude Juncker on a freelance basis to show them how to set up the tax evasion process he so successfully set up for Luxembourg allowing those multinationals to pay below the going rate in tax and allowed Luxembourg to profit at the expense of her European neighbours, mmm one big happy community all pulling in the same direction.
gkdsp:
How will it work with the larger haulage companies that have eu registered trucks and UK ones, i.e stobbies, swains etc, will they have the best of both worlds?
I think, although I could well be mistaken, that those international companies, are in fact several national offices, owned by one bigger holding company. Each national office will have to obey the rules of the company where it is based?
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Except it would be in the interest of the UK domestic market to implement those new rules regardless of our relationship with the EU.Ahh !
Now we have it.
I agree with you that it would be beneficial to UK drivers and transport companies generally to go along with these rules, however a Government may prefer to have cheaper transport, (wherever it comes from) and drive down wages in a “more competitive Britain”?
Cheaper food, products, cheaper “more flexible labour” (more insecure) is the future I’m afraid.In that aspect the UK is no different to the EU hence the mini Bulgaria in Zeebrugge probably over several hundred BG and RO trucks pulling for Lidl out of there permanently based there avoiding cabotage by going into the surrounding countries, or the hundreds of Hegelmann lorries running through France on domestic work. The EU is no less capitalist than the UK when it comes to appeasing big business the vast majority of big names in Europe use BG and RO for their work and when new countries enter they will be used and the BG and RO firms will be dropped for them in the same way the Poles were dropped for the BG and RO companies
The EU is alike the UK in many ways, but to describe it as being “equally capitalist”?
I’m not so sure.
We are after all discussing proposed measures to help established driver’s jobs.
Can you see the present, or indeed any recent UK Govs doing the same?
Seems to me that ever since Thatcher, industry and long term investments have been shunned in favour of short term-ism and chasing a quick buck.
Maybe most of the free world is more capitalist than it was decades ago, but I think the UK is going further and faster along that road than many of our EU neighbours. Look at Prof Minford one of the few economists who favours Brexit: he thinks the UK will be better off out. He also thinks industry and farming will be lost, but Hey-ho! The city will thrive!
A richer country, but not for the benefit of all of it’s citizens.Perhaps the EU disguises it a bit better and isn’t so blatant about it, it doesn’t seem to concerned about importing cheap labour from outside of the EU either or that wages have stagnated and dropped in southern Europe. That trans info site has some interesting videos about driver exploitation by Europe’s big multi nationals Ikea and the German car industry being among the worst.
Just to add perhaps now that he is no longer head of the EU perhaps the UK government could hire Jean Claude Juncker on a freelance basis to show them how to set up the tax evasion process he so successfully set up for Luxembourg allowing those multinationals to pay below the going rate in tax and allowed Luxembourg to profit at the expense of her European neighbours, mmm one big happy community all pulling in the same direction.
The EU is a united, happy, smiley, place, just like the UK has a wonderful, contended, people, all pulling together behind their popular, competent, government.
No one is saying they are perfect, but you yourself said these rules do seem beneficial to us ordinary drivers, didn’t you?
Franglais:
The EU is a united, happy, smiley, place, just like the UK has a wonderful, contended, people, all pulling together behind their popular, competent, government.
No one is saying they are perfect, but you yourself said these rules do seem beneficial to us ordinary drivers, didn’t you?
[/quote]
So because the EU is now fixing a problem of it’s own making I should be grateful, they were fully warned that the relaxation of transport rules would cause the problems that it has, but better to create problems as long as the ultimate project is kept on track regardless of how it affects it’s citizens
So, say the UK adopt these changes…what would happen if I wanted to hire a van to say, move some stuff to the tip? Would I need a tacho? Would Joe Public need to sit a CPC on tachos? Pay for a tacho card etc etc the list goes on.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
stuwozere1:
So, say the UK adopt these changes…what would happen if I wanted to hire a van to say, move some stuff to the tip? Would I need a tacho? Would Joe Public need to sit a CPC on tachos? Pay for a tacho card etc etc the list goes on.Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
Domestic UK regs?
Non-commercial use?
Horse boxes?
Don’t panic.
.
Would it mean you couldn’t drive 30hrs straight without it showing on a tacho, undercutting legitimate companies? Yes.
Won’t the effect of these “regulations” be aimed at Continental drivers coming over here post-Brexit, where they will find it hard indeed to comply with the above rules, with the net effect that some Continental hauliers will just say “Oh well. GB ain’t worth bothering with any more. Let’s do our business elsewhere”.
In wartime, that would be called “attempting a blockade” to enforce a total trade embargo…
The EU don’t want truckers carrying on bringing their wares over to blighty.
As said above, most truckers are not going to give a toss, and will do whatever suits them.
If they make money on their UK trade - then they will continue.
If they lose money on it - they’ll cease and desist.
That’s it.
No difference to whether we are in or out of the EU. Driver regs and hours will not change, The civil aviation authority are still aligning with ESA, only thing that will change is the price of goods, either a tariff added or a free trade agreement. Certain regulations will apply and more likely change, not drivers hours or aviation rules. Ports will still operate on the same basis, at least for a few years yet.
Typo, meant to read EASA!!!
UKtramp:
No difference to whether we are in or out of the EU. Driver regs and hours will not change, The civil aviation authority are still aligning with ESA, only thing that will change is the price of goods, either a tariff added or a free trade agreement. Certain regulations will apply and more likely change, not drivers hours or aviation rules. Ports will still operate on the same basis, at least for a few years yet.
Same result. A tarrif added will likely plunge the Euro to compensate. The UK NOT adding a Tariff on the other hand, will probably cause the pound, already pricing in a tariff structure - to rally as a “relief” post Brexit.
Thus, any price changes will be cancelled out by moves in the respective currency markets. The Euro is worth just below 90p as I write this. Watch this space!
I consider it highly unlikely that the UK will impose a tariff, without the EU doing the same - the only scenario that would plunge the pound further than it already has. A lot has been bet by characters such as Soros upon that very outcome though, so perhaps Brexit might one day cause this upstart to lose his shirt, and then he’ll no longer be able to fund the world’s Far Left Mobs on the rampage all around, as we see every day of late on both sides of the pond already.
biggriffin:
As Moaster says, just a lip service to the Transport industry, worthless without enforcement,
Cabotage rules, weekending in cabs rules, are currently enforced in some EU countries. Those nations care about their transport industries more than those countries that choose not to.
Same with the Drivers CPC, isnt it? Some countries have a proper in job training scheme, designed to keep professionals in a well paid job; some have a box-ticking exercise to pay lip service to rules.
.
Swedish Derogation? Non-Enforcement of the WTD?
For the benefit of workers, or to keep costs down for employers?
.
What is the UK more worried about?
Supporting it`s already diminished industries, including transport, and those working there?
Or, in driving down costs to increase share-holder profits? Does it matter if lorry drivers are on minimum wage, so long as UK PLC is better off? Does it matter if car factories close, so long as “The City” survives?
The nearer we get to a “No Deal Brexit” the more likely we are to see the wishes of Minford and the hard liners realized.
Franglais:
biggriffin:
As Moaster says, just a lip service to the Transport industry, worthless without enforcement,Cabotage rules, weekending in cabs rules, are currently enforced in some EU countries. Those nations care about their transport industries more than those countries that choose not to.
Same with the Drivers CPC, isnt it? Some countries have a proper in job training scheme, designed to keep professionals in a well paid job; some have a box-ticking exercise to pay lip service to rules.
.
Swedish Derogation? Non-Enforcement of the WTD?
For the benefit of workers, or to keep costs down for employers?
.
What is the UK more worried about?
Supporting it`s already diminished industries, including transport, and those working there?
Or, in driving down costs to increase share-holder profits? Does it matter if lorry drivers are on minimum wage, so long as UK PLC is better off? Does it matter if car factories close, so long as “The City” survives?
The nearer we get to a “No Deal Brexit” the more likely we are to see the wishes of Minford and the hard liners realized.
In terms of roadside enforcement the UK is one of the strictest countries, far more chance of being stopped in the UK ay any time of the day compared to the rest of Europe, outside of working hours in France free reign, except for the odd occasion at St Omer, plenty of operators have been punished for cabotage in the UK plain to see by the number of foreign operators now using UK registered HGV’s.
The enforcement of weekend bans is a hotch potch across all of Europe again I refer you to Zeebrugge, and before you jump in yes I know there was a crackdown when the ban first came in but little since.
The mess that western European haulage finds itself in is entirely the making of western European politicians in their push for an integrated Europe, who are now unsurprisingly finding it very hard to put the genie back in the bottle due to the fact that the EE block no longer feel that they have to kow tow to the West and as far as I’m aware was around long before Brexit
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
biggriffin:
As Moaster says, just a lip service to the Transport industry, worthless without enforcement,Cabotage rules, weekending in cabs rules, are currently enforced in some EU countries. Those nations care about their transport industries more than those countries that choose not to.
Same with the Drivers CPC, isnt it? Some countries have a proper in job training scheme, designed to keep professionals in a well paid job; some have a box-ticking exercise to pay lip service to rules.
.
Swedish Derogation? Non-Enforcement of the WTD?
For the benefit of workers, or to keep costs down for employers?
.
What is the UK more worried about?
Supporting it`s already diminished industries, including transport, and those working there?
Or, in driving down costs to increase share-holder profits? Does it matter if lorry drivers are on minimum wage, so long as UK PLC is better off? Does it matter if car factories close, so long as “The City” survives?
The nearer we get to a “No Deal Brexit” the more likely we are to see the wishes of Minford and the hard liners realized.In terms of roadside enforcement the UK is one of the strictest countries, far more chance of being stopped in the UK ay any time of the day compared to the rest of Europe, outside of working hours in France free reign, except for the odd occasion at St Omer, plenty of operators have been punished for cabotage in the UK plain to see by the number of foreign operators now using UK registered HGV’s.
The enforcement of weekend bans is a hotch potch across all of Europe again I refer you to Zeebrugge, and before you jump in yes I know there was a crackdown when the ban first came in but little since.
The mess that western European haulage finds itself in is entirely the making of western European politicians in their push for an integrated Europe, who are now unsurprisingly finding it very hard to put the genie back in the bottle due to the fact that the EE block no longer feel that they have to kow tow to the West and as far as I’m aware was around long before Brexit
“roadside enforcement the UK is one of the strictest countries”
Any figures on that?
“plenty of operators have been punished for cabotage in the UK plain to see by the number of foreign operators now using UK registered HGV’s.”
Any figures/links?
Heres all I found: [parliament.uk/business/publ ... -16/68273/](https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2017-03-16/68273/) From 2017, DVSA does not prosecute Cabotage, but does issue notices. [assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... policy.pdf](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/863756/dvsa-enforcement-sanctions-policy.pdf) 2020. Page 292. . " The mess that western European haulage finds itself in is entirely the making of western European politicians in their push for an integrated Europe" Yep, its a mess, but is that due to rushed integration alone? Or Governments profit chasing, getting transport costs down for big businesses, rather than looking after we working individuals?
Rather than spend 10 hours on google I’ll give you my experience of driving in Western Europe for 20 years, roadside checks in the following countries Denmark, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Spain and Portugal zero. France two, UK at a guess somewhere in the region of over a hundred, in those 20 years were 3 years running to Spain and Portugal for a haulier who even by Irish standards was regarded as a bandit by the authorities in Spain and France, but never stopped by the Spanish despite regularly passing through Irun.
As for cabotage Virginia transport, Nolan’s, Smeet, HSF and possibly Freightliner are names that spring to mind now using UK registered lorries due to problems with cabotage.
I appreciate that this is only my experience however if you look up cabotage offences you will find those names on the list of offenders and quite possibly several more in fact the last fine paid by this company was £600 for cabotage when the driver was stopped on the A19. The penalties for cabotage in the UK are two fines and then on the company’s third occasion confiscation of the vehicle.
Mazzer2:
Rather than spend 10 hours on google I’ll give you my experience of driving in Western Europe for 20 years, roadside checks in the following countries Denmark, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Spain and Portugal zero. France two, UK at a guess somewhere in the region of over a hundred, in those 20 years were 3 years running to Spain and Portugal for a haulier who even by Irish standards was regarded as a bandit by the authorities in Spain and France, but never stopped by the Spanish despite regularly passing through Irun.
As for cabotage Virginia transport, Nolan’s, Smeet, HSF and possibly Freightliner are names that spring to mind now using UK registered lorries due to problems with cabotage.
I appreciate that this is only my experience however if you look up cabotage offences you will find those names on the list of offenders and quite possibly several more in fact the last fine paid by this company was £600 for cabotage when the driver was stopped on the A19. The penalties for cabotage in the UK are two fines and then on the company’s third occasion confiscation of the vehicle.
Since Ive been driving Euro for over 30yrs do my experiences trump yours? :smiley: Ive had a few tugs in the UK, but many more in France, Spain, Italy, and a just a few in Germany.
Personal experiences differ.
.
French cabotage fines are in the 5 figure range*…first offence…puts £600 in the shade, don`t it?
*I know of two separate occasions, with drivers I trust. And this was IMHO, a very strict reading of cabotage rules too.
.
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Rather than spend 10 hours on google I’ll give you my experience of driving in Western Europe for 20 years, roadside checks in the following countries Denmark, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Spain and Portugal zero. France two, UK at a guess somewhere in the region of over a hundred, in those 20 years were 3 years running to Spain and Portugal for a haulier who even by Irish standards was regarded as a bandit by the authorities in Spain and France, but never stopped by the Spanish despite regularly passing through Irun.
As for cabotage Virginia transport, Nolan’s, Smeet, HSF and possibly Freightliner are names that spring to mind now using UK registered lorries due to problems with cabotage.
I appreciate that this is only my experience however if you look up cabotage offences you will find those names on the list of offenders and quite possibly several more in fact the last fine paid by this company was £600 for cabotage when the driver was stopped on the A19. The penalties for cabotage in the UK are two fines and then on the company’s third occasion confiscation of the vehicle.Since I
ve been driving Euro for over 30yrs do my experiences trump yours? :smiley: Ive had a few tugs in the UK, but many more in France, Spain, Italy, and a just a few in Germany.
Personal experiences differ.
.
French cabotage fines are in the 5 figure range*…first offence…puts £600 in the shade, don`t it?*I know of two separate occasions, with drivers I trust. And this was IMHO, a very strict reading of cabotage rules too.
.
You will have been pulled less in the UK because if the authorities suspect your firm they will just pay your offices a visit which is how most UK operators are caught as explained to me by a VOSA man when I asked how come you rarely see GB lorries in the weighbridges (Tippers are an exception).
Yes £600 is not a massive amount but losing over a hundred’s grand worth of plant is hardly small fry either and when one company can have 12 seized in a 48 hour period puts France’s 5 figure sum into insignificance.
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Rather than spend 10 hours on google I’ll give you my experience of driving in Western Europe for 20 years, roadside checks in the following countries Denmark, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Spain and Portugal zero. France two, UK at a guess somewhere in the region of over a hundred, in those 20 years were 3 years running to Spain and Portugal for a haulier who even by Irish standards was regarded as a bandit by the authorities in Spain and France, but never stopped by the Spanish despite regularly passing through Irun.
As for cabotage Virginia transport, Nolan’s, Smeet, HSF and possibly Freightliner are names that spring to mind now using UK registered lorries due to problems with cabotage.
I appreciate that this is only my experience however if you look up cabotage offences you will find those names on the list of offenders and quite possibly several more in fact the last fine paid by this company was £600 for cabotage when the driver was stopped on the A19. The penalties for cabotage in the UK are two fines and then on the company’s third occasion confiscation of the vehicle.Since I
ve been driving Euro for over 30yrs do my experiences trump yours? :smiley: Ive had a few tugs in the UK, but many more in France, Spain, Italy, and a just a few in Germany.
Personal experiences differ.
.
French cabotage fines are in the 5 figure range*…first offence…puts £600 in the shade, don`t it?*I know of two separate occasions, with drivers I trust. And this was IMHO, a very strict reading of cabotage rules too.
.You will have been pulled less in the UK because if the authorities suspect your firm they will just pay your offices a visit which is how most UK operators are caught as explained to me by a VOSA man when I asked how come you rarely see GB lorries in the weighbridges (Tippers are an exception).
Yes £600 is not a massive amount but losing over a hundred’s grand worth of plant is hardly small fry either and when one company can have 12 seized in a 48 hour period puts France’s 5 figure sum into insignificance.
5 figures for a first offence, compared to: “the last fine paid by this company was £600 for cabotage”, sounds a repeat offence?. I dont know what the penalties are for repeat offences in EUland, although I imagine confiscation would be an option there too. . You arent convincing me that the UK is particularly strict.
That the UK cops reckon an Irish truck heading home is a good bet for a tug? Yeah, Im sure youre correct, but that isn`t necessarily a picture of overall enforcement standards.
If it was a repeat offence then the lorry would have been seized, go past Stafford, Leatherhead or any other large weighbridge and you will find them operating nearly 24/7 and full with EE lorries have never seen the same in Europe
Franglais:
.
You arent convincing me that the UK is particularly strict. That the UK cops reckon an Irish truck heading home is a good bet for a tug? Yeah, Im sure youre correct, but that isnt necessarily a picture of overall enforcement standards.
I didn’t think that when posting a response to someone else that I had to deliberate as to whether it would convince you. As you will have noticed I used the phrase ‘in my experience’ and ‘for roadside checks’. As you have pointed out my experience is top trumped by your 10 years extra so therefore irrelevant so point to you. Secondly using experience relevant or other is obviously again trumped by Google, no link equals lies again point to you so if you would kindly ignore anything I have written as your friend Mr Google hasn’t backed it up.
Last time I looked a forum was about opinions and discussion with advice given out as and when generally based on people’s experience not on how many google links they can insert into each response, all that does is show you can use a search engine something the average 5 year old can now do.