Ok who understands the new rules, minimum age for a bus 24 unless you have a dcpc then its 18, whats all that about?
Age for lgv back up to 21 ■■?
Peter what’s going on ?
Those are a rough outline of what is proposed to go into law at the end of this year
Wait for the legal stuff to be written and that should be clear as to what is actually meant by this
I looked into the supposed new trailer towing rules for B category vehicles and to be honest it is a mess in the way it is written and explained - a lot of the DVLA bods are having trouble with it!!
IMO they released info which is not entirely correct and should have made clear that it is a rough outline of what could be written into law later
This is based on an EU directive - ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safe … nce_en.htm
Categories Description Minimum age
C Vehicles over 3500kg with a trailer up to 750kg, and designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than eight passengers in addition to the driver, with a trailer up to 750kg 21*
C+E Vehicles over 3500kg, and designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than eight passengers in addition to the driver, with a trailer over 750kg 21**You can drive at age 17 if a member of the armed services.
**You can drive at 18 if one of the following apply:
-you passed your driving test and Driver Certificate of Professional Competence (Driver CPC) Initial Qualification
-you are learning to drive or taking a driving test for this category or Driver CPC Initial Qualification
-you are taking a national vocational training course to get a Driver CPC Initial Qualification
-you had your driving licence before 10 September 2009, you must take the CPC periodic training within five years of this date
In “normal” use, there is no change. People such as private horsebox drivers suffer. But maybe it’s a way of encouraging people to do the dcpc and I happen to think that’s not a bad thing.
I wonder what happens to an 18 year old who passed their test this week to drive daddy’s horsebox and has no cpc. Can he continue driving? Historically, entitlements aren’t removed- but we’ll see.
Pete 
B+E was a mess for the general public to understand anyhow, now its as clear as mud
So does that mean you wont be able to drive class 1 and 2 at 18 under the new rules?
Saaamon:
So does that mean you wont be able to drive class 1 and 2 at 18 under the new rules?
Under the new Directive, you will be able to drive C and C+E from 18 for the purposes of training towards gaining a licence, training towards gaining initial DCPC and once you have passed initial DCPC.
In other words, nothing much changes for commercial drivers, who have to have DCPC before driving a commercial load.
so basically i need to sit my artic test before these new rules come in if I’ve not to suffer from this as i’m 18? as there is no double asterisk ** near the C or CE age.
So would I be right in saying, if you’re wanting to drive vehicles commercially there is absolutely no change to the age limit? but say you were wanting to drive a vehicle for private use as already mentioned driving a horsebox then you would need to be 21 if the vehicle was over 7 1/2 ton? 
Cheers
Jonny 
Sam Millar:
so basically i need to sit my artic test before these new rules come in if I’ve not to suffer from this as i’m 18?
The new rules will make no difference to you. You already have LGV initial DCPC as you took it along with your C test to drive LGVs commercially. You are therefore subject to an age limit of 18 for C and C+E.
You can take your C+E test before or after the new rules come in - it makes no difference. Your DCPC means you are subject to the 18 age limit.
jonnytruckfest:
So would I be right in saying, if you’re wanting to drive vehicles commercially there is absolutely no change to the age limit? but say you were wanting to drive a vehicle for private use as already mentioned driving a horsebox then you would need to be 21 if the vehicle was over 7 1/2 ton?
That’s it. Those aged 18 to 23 who want to drive C or C+E privately (or in any context that does not require DCPC) will have to take LGV initial DCPC. The only reason they need the DCPC is to lower the age limit.
[These answers are subject to my understanding of the DVLA leaflet - I haven’t read the text of the Directive or, if the transposing UK regulations have been passed, the UK Statutory Instrument. I have a head quite full enough of EU law at the moment, as I have university exams on it later this month].
djw:
Sam Millar:
so basically i need to sit my artic test before these new rules come in if I’ve not to suffer from this as i’m 18?The new rules will make no difference to you. You already have LGV initial DCPC as you took it along with your C test to drive LGVs commercially. You are therefore subject to an age limit of 18 for C and C+E.
You can take your C+E test before or after the new rules come in - it makes no difference. Your DCPC means you are subject to the 18 age limit.
jonnytruckfest:
So would I be right in saying, if you’re wanting to drive vehicles commercially there is absolutely no change to the age limit? but say you were wanting to drive a vehicle for private use as already mentioned driving a horsebox then you would need to be 21 if the vehicle was over 7 1/2 ton?That’s it. Those aged 18 to 23 who want to drive C or C+E privately (or in any context that does not require DCPC) will have to take LGV initial DCPC. The only reason they need the DCPC is to lower the age limit.
[These answers are subject to my understanding of the DVLA leaflet - I haven’t read the text of the Directive or, if the transposing UK regulations have been passed, the UK Statutory Instrument. I have a head quite full enough of EU law at the moment, as I have university exams on it later this month].
I haven’t studied the regulations in any depth yet but I’m pretty sure the age for driving anything above category C1/C1E is 21 unless you’ve taken the Initial CPC in which case the age remains at 18.
It won’t make much difference to lorry drivers, it just means you’ll have to do the DCPC initial qualification before you can get the truck license if you’re under 21.
As far as I can see the minimum age for categories C1/C1E remains at 18 but of course you still need the DCPC to drive for commercial use.
The minimum age for categories D/D+E is 24 or 18 if you hold the Initial DCPC qualifications.
And to cap it all, you will have to renew your lgv licence every 5 years even under 45, 
tachograph:
It won’t make much difference to lorry drivers, it just means you’ll have to do the DCPC initial qualification before you can get the truck license if you’re under 21.
The DVLA site says “You can drive at 18 if … you are learning to drive or taking a driving test for this category or Driver CPC Initial Qualification”. It doesn’t therefore matter which order you take the driving test and initial DCPC.
What you can’t do when the new rules come into force if you are under 21 and pass a practical driving test for C or C+E is drive using that entitlement until you gain initial DCPC. For those in this position, it is likely that DVLA will place the test pass into abeyance in some way, either by issuing the category dated forward to the 21st birthday until the database shows the driver holds LGV initial DCPC, or, more likely, by recording it on the licence with a restriction code ‘not valid before [date of 21st birthday] unless LGV initial DCPC held’.
I expect that an 18 year old passing a C test once the new system starts will gain full C1 entitlement irrespective of whether they hold LGV initial DCPC, though I have no idea how this will be shown on the licence.
There are other changes in this directive. As have been said, those under 45 with vocational entitlement will have to renew that entitlement every five years, though this will involve self-declaration about your health rather than a D4 medical.
The layout of the back of the photocard will change to more like a current German licence - it will show every category, either with dates and restriction codes as at present, or with a line in place of dates if the category is not held.
Moped and motorcycle entitlement will be shown in a different way, too.
A new European-wide moped category is being introduced, AM, which permits riding machines subject to various limits including a maximum design speed of 25 to 45 km/h. As at present, this can either be gained by passing a moped test at 16, by passing a bike test, or by passing a car test (as at present, the category granted with a car test will only be valid for those passing CBT, except those that have grandfather rights). This is a significant gain, as this is the first time moped entitlement becomes an EU category.
On UK licences, AM will always be accompanied by national category q, which allows riding machines with a maximum design speed less than 25 km/h.
Those who hold the existing national category p will keep it, though any licences issued after the changeover to the new system will also show AM and q. Category p will allow riding machines with a maximum design speed of 50km/h, as the current category p does. Once the new rules come in, no new category p entitlements will be granted.
Motorcycle entitlement is being split into A1, A2 and A (in order from most restricted to unrestricted). A2 and A can either be acquired by staged access, by holding the next category down for two years and taking a further practical test, or, for those over old enough (19 for A2, 24 for A), by Direct Access practical tests taken on the larger bikes.
This substantially changes the current system and makes it harder for youngsters to gain higher motorcycle entitlements. At the moment, any 17 year old can take a test on what will become A2 and this automatically becomes an unrestricted A licence after two years. I presume that those gaining the restricted A licence before the changeover to the new system will still gain the automatic upgrade (I guess any licences issued on the new model to people with the restricted A licence will show A2 entitlement with A entitlement starting two years later - possibly starting after the date of the licence itself).
I suspect Direct Access will become even more popular than at present for those who are old enough. Even if you only intend to ride a small bike at first, there is a strong argument to gain full A entitlement with a single test, just as it makes sense in most cases to take a C or D test rather than C1 or D1.
djw:
tachograph:
It won’t make much difference to lorry drivers, it just means you’ll have to do the DCPC initial qualification before you can get the truck license if you’re under 21.The DVLA site says “You can drive at 18 if … you are learning to drive or taking a driving test for this category or Driver CPC Initial Qualification”. It doesn’t therefore matter which order you take the driving test and initial DCPC.
What you can’t do when the new rules come into force if you are under 21 and pass a practical driving test for C or C+E is drive using that entitlement until you gain initial DCPC. For those in this position, it is likely that DVLA will place the test pass into abeyance in some way, either by issuing the category dated forward to the 21st birthday until the database shows the driver holds LGV initial DCPC, or, more likely, by recording it on the licence with a restriction code ‘not valid before [date of 21st birthday] unless LGV initial DCPC held’.
I expect that an 18 year old passing a C test once the new system starts will gain full C1 entitlement irrespective of whether they hold LGV initial DCPC, though I have no idea how this will be shown on the licence.
There are other changes in this directive. As have been said, those under 45 with vocational entitlement will have to renew that entitlement every five years, though this will involve self-declaration about your health rather than a D4 medical.
The layout of the back of the photocard will change to more like a current German licence - it will show every category, either with dates and restriction codes as at present, or with a line in place of dates if the category is not held.
Moped and motorcycle entitlement will be shown in a different way, too.
A new European-wide moped category is being introduced, AM, which permits riding machines subject to various limits including a maximum design speed of 25 to 45 km/h. As at present, this can either be gained by passing a moped test at 16, by passing a bike test, or by passing a car test (as at present, the category granted with a car test will only be valid for those passing CBT, except those that have grandfather rights). This is a significant gain, as this is the first time moped entitlement becomes an EU category.
On UK licences, AM will always be accompanied by national category q, which allows riding machines with a maximum design speed less than 25 km/h.
Those who hold the existing national category p will keep it, though any licences issued after the changeover to the new system will also show AM and q. Category p will allow riding machines with a maximum design speed of 50km/h, as the current category p does. Once the new rules come in, no new category p entitlements will be granted.
Motorcycle entitlement is being split into A1, A2 and A (in order from most restricted to unrestricted). A2 and A can either be acquired by staged access, by holding the next category down for two years and taking a further practical test, or, for those over old enough (19 for A2, 24 for A), by Direct Access practical tests taken on the larger bikes.
This substantially changes the current system and makes it harder for youngsters to gain higher motorcycle entitlements. At the moment, any 17 year old can take a test on what will become A2 and this automatically becomes an unrestricted A licence after two years. I presume that those gaining the restricted A licence before the changeover to the new system will still gain the automatic upgrade (I guess any licences issued on the new model to people with the restricted A licence will show A2 entitlement with A entitlement starting two years later - possibly starting after the date of the licence itself).
I suspect Direct Access will become even more popular than at present for those who are old enough. Even if you only intend to ride a small bike at first, there is a strong argument to gain full A entitlement with a single test, just as it makes sense in most cases to take a C or D test rather than C1 or D1.
That is interesting about the mopeds and motorcycles, the French were making some noises about removing licences from people who hadn’t ridden for a long time, a sort of attack on the Born Again Ducati (BAD) biker who worked in a bank. I suppose a good test would be if you can survive a full lap of the Peripherique, than you can keep your licence
New car drivers after 2013 will be restricted to 750kg trailer unless they take b+e, so maybe the end of the caravan generation.
djw:
tachograph:
It won’t make much difference to lorry drivers, it just means you’ll have to do the DCPC initial qualification before you can get the truck license if you’re under 21.The DVLA site says “You can drive at 18 if … you are learning to drive or taking a driving test for this category or Driver CPC Initial Qualification”. It doesn’t therefore matter which order you take the driving test and initial DCPC.
OK thanks for clearing that up, I did read the directive quickly and obviously missed some things 
Anyway that’s even better news for anyone planning to start on LGV training 
Noworries:
New car drivers after 2013 will be restricted to 750kg trailer unless they take b+e, so maybe the end of the caravan generation.
Where does it say that? The category B doesn’t appear any different to me insofar as you can go over 750kgs provided the combination’s less than 4250kgs.
Apparently not UK is opting out of that clause
B Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg and designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than eight passengers in addition to the driver, with a trailer up to 750kg 17*
B Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg and designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than eight passengers in addition to the driver, with a trailer over 750kg, where the combination MAM is not exceeding 4250kg 17**
B+E Combinations of vehicles consisting of a vehicle in category B and a trailer, where the combination does not come within category B and the MAM of the trailer or semi-trailer does not exceed 3500kg 17*
*Age 16 if you are getting Disability Living Allowance (mobility allowance) at the higher rate.
**New element of category B (UK will not be taking this up. To drive vehicles within this definition, entitlement B+E will be needed).
Noworries:
**New element of category B (UK will not be taking this up. To drive vehicles within this definition, entitlement B+E will be needed).
The issue that confuses me is that this isn’t new as far as the UK’s concerned as it’s already the case I presume it means it’s being dropped.
Yes new element for eu, but we are going backwards.
ROG:
Those are a rough outline of what is proposed to go into law at the end of this yearWait for the legal stuff to be written and that should be clear as to what is actually meant by this
I looked into the supposed new trailer towing rules for B category vehicles and to be honest it is a mess in the way it is written and explained - a lot of the DVLA bods are having trouble with it!!
IMO they released info which is not entirely correct and should have made clear that it is a rough outline of what could be written into law later
This is based on an EU directive - ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safe … nce_en.htm
B
Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg and designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than eight passengers in addition to the driver, with a trailer over 750kg, where the combination MAM is not exceeding 4250kg
Another example not written properly because it should read - with a trailer over 750kg, where the combination MAM is not exceeding 3500kg - someone at DVLA has hashed this together quickly without any care being taken