Hi all hope I find you well,
I’ve just joined your forum, and thought I’d bring this issue up with you all. I have been working for Shakespeare Transport at Larkfield, Kent for nine years now trunking to Palletways Lichfield and back every night, with the odd Palletways London thrown in for good measure. For seven years with the original owner, we had no contract but were guaranteed five nights work as a night driver via a letter confirming your employment. Then the company was sold in 2015 and Matthew Kibble Transport took over and full control July 2016. He kept the company name to run along side his Nelson operation. All seemed good, to start a new standard contract last July, new uniform, a few upgrades around the site, folk trucks, new Ad-Blue tank, pump trucks etc and some new Volvo FH 460’s plus a few ‘‘old hand me downs’’ FH13’s from Nelson depot to fill the gaps.
Then at the start of last month a new contract, with a heading of driver / labourer, and no hours listed, we presume zero hours, and yet we are not allowed to work for anyone else, a pay rise for nights, new hourly rates for days plus a nights out rate which the general haulage drivers are not happy about, they payed by the load. We are all to be trained in the art of using a forklift truck even though there’s only three trucks in the warehouse and used by the warehouse staff?! Included with the contract is a list of what you’ll have to repay if you leave the company within a certain time after any training including any CPC training which mind we as night drivers have to do in our own time i.e. a Sunday. How much you have to pay the company if you damage your uniform. We all have to be more flexible, work when or do, where ever the company needs us. Oh and must be signed by the 23rd of February but we do keep our quarterly non accident bonus!
No surprise half the drivers are on the move, not signed the new document, myself included. Has anyone else had this sort of contract dropped on them and is this as the company claim now becoming ‘‘The industry standard’’
Its a personal thing, i personally wouldnt sign such a contract… a contract should be showing your minimum hours, minimum wage, overtime rates etc, Any training done by the company is to benefit them, paying by the load, is an encouragement to speed, break regulations etc, and what i believe to be illegal. As for paying back what you owe, i believe a uniform is to protect your own personal clothing, so if it gets damaged, its obviously damaged doing their work…so its their loss if it does. Any training they pay for, is to benefit you and the company, and i wouldnt sign that, CPC however is a different thing, so maybe they are lawful in requesting you pay it back…somehow, i would request a payment scheme, rather than wait for a time in the future, for eg if you were to leave, and they then ask and show you what you owe. Like i said, personally, i wouldnt sign a contract like that for anyone.
think the forkies in your depot ought to be worried company aint gonna be paying for you to have a flt licence to only use it occasionally self loading will become the norm you watch bye bye forkies wages saved there
Some warehouse staff who are on minimum wage are already worried about their jobs and think they will be eventually maybe push out with all drivers being forklift training. Plus the idea of loading and unloading a double deck trailer doesn’t appeal to me, our hours are long enough as it is. Also because they are changing networks from Palletways to Pallet Force we have now learned the pallet count is less until the customer base is built up.
Going from pro driver to driver/labourer sonds like a downgrade of your job to me.
Was there not a redundancy option from your old co, I reckon I would have gone for that.
They sound just like the type of co. that I would not want to work for, the type who expect their drivers to put up with any old crap.
I would politely tell them I was better than that, to poke it and then go elsewhere, there are plenty decent jobs about, so no need to settle for a third rate one…■■■■ labourer my arse. 
You should know that your TM is a regular contributor to the Old Timers section of this site, not that I would imagine he is the sort of person to hold anything you have written so far against you.
cav551:
You should know that your TM is a regular contributor to the Old Timers section of this site, not that I would imagine he is the sort of person to hold anything you have written so far against you.
Why would he ? If he thinks it’s acceptable for his co to treat their drivers in a certain way, why would he be embarrassed if it is made public (although arguably he maybe ought to be 
)
I don’t advertise who I work for on here (although one or two on here know) I have criticised them a few times on here, but never said anything about them that was not true.
If somebody disclosed who I work for, so be it, it would not be the end of the world, but I aint stupid I prefer to keep it to myself.
Co.s can not have it both ways, openly disrespectfully treat their drivers, or treat them like crap in different degrees, but not be prepared to be criticised for it.
Paying by the load is an incentive to get the work done, its not asking drivers to run illegal just negates drivers dragging the job out as is the temptation would be if being paid hourly. The co. i sub for works this way and it works well, very few drivers hang around (employed of S.E) and they all earn very good money, most likely far more than if they were on an hourly rate. There are those however that prefer to just go at their own pace but obviously earn less, its a choice…
robroy:
Why would he ? If he thinks it’s acceptable for his co to treat their drivers in a certain way, why would he be embarrassed if it is made public (although arguably he maybe ought to be :
That is making an assumption about someone’s opinion based (arguably) upon one’s own.
cav551:
robroy:
Why would he ? If he thinks it’s acceptable for his co to treat their drivers in a certain way, why would he be embarrassed if it is made public (although arguably he maybe ought to be :
That is making an assumption about someone’s opinion based (arguably) upon one’s own.
Is it you then I am thinking ■■
AndrewG:
Paying by the load is an incentive to get the work done, its not asking drivers to run illegal just negates drivers dragging the job out as is the temptation would be if being paid hourly. The co. i sub for works this way and it works well, very few drivers hang around (employed of S.E) and they all earn very good money, most likely far more than if they were on an hourly rate. There are those however that prefer to just go at their own pace but obviously earn less, its a choice…
Not only an incentive to get work done Andrew, but an incentive to some to go like ■■■■, bend the rules, break the speed limit and all the rest of it that goes to compromise road safety.
One man’s ‘‘dragging it out’’ is another man’s doing the job at a safe and sensible pace, depending on which side of the employment fence you are on.
I have been on both sides of said fence,.as an employee where I take the second option every time, and as an employer where I never advocated or encouraged my drivers to put loads before safety.
Kibble himself is a regular talking head in Commercial Motor. Perhaps thanks to this connection, the resident wannabe journalist could ask him why he thinks it’s OK to ■■■■ on his drivers from a great height in the manner that mnsmith1968 describes. I wonder if Kibble would be so keen to have his thoughts in print then?
The " driver / labourer " bit in contracts used to be pretty standard years ago. I don’t think it caused much concern because almost all lorry drivers accepted that as well as driving, they would probably also have to work for a living 
It’s probably most useful nowadays for companies to cover their arses for the " I’m not having anything to do with what’s on the back of the truck, my contract says driver…end of " type of bloke.
Regards. John.
AndrewG:
Paying by the load is an incentive to get the work done, its not asking drivers to run illegal just negates drivers dragging the job out as is the temptation would be if being paid hourly. The co. i sub for works this way and it works well, very few drivers hang around (employed of S.E) and they all earn very good money, most likely far more than if they were on an hourly rate. There are those however that prefer to just go at their own pace but obviously earn less, its a choice…
By the load/job and knock is a driver shooting himself in the foot usually by tear arsing around and these days ending up with more work/lower rates.
old 67:
The " driver / labourer " bit in contracts used to be pretty standard years ago. I don’t think it caused much concern because almost all lorry drivers accepted that as well as driving, they would probably also have to work for a living
It’s probably most useful nowadays for companies to cover their arses for the " I’m not having anything to do with what’s on the back of the truck, my contract says driver…end of " type of bloke.
Regards. John.
I get the ‘work for a living’ bit, but is loading your trailer with a stacker before you set off not a step too far?
Especially when it is at the cost of the flt driver’s jobs.
Just to cross on to another thread this would have stood a lot less chance of happening if there was a decent Union involved, but that appears to be a dirty word on this forum.
It’ll be “Don’t put your card in until you’re ready to leave the yard…” 
robroy:
old 67:
The " driver / labourer " bit in contracts used to be pretty standard years ago. I don’t think it caused much concern because almost all lorry drivers accepted that as well as driving, they would probably also have to work for a living
It’s probably most useful nowadays for companies to cover their arses for the " I’m not having anything to do with what’s on the back of the truck, my contract says driver…end of " type of bloke.
Regards. John.
I get the ‘work for a living’ bit, but is loading your trailer with a stacker before you set off not a step too far?
Especially when it is at the cost of the flt driver’s jobs.
Just to cross on to another thread this would have stood a lot less chance of happening if there was a decent Union involved, but that appears to be a dirty word on this forum.
Unions are so working class and we no longer have a working class in this country?
TiredAndEmotional:
AndrewG:
Paying by the load is an incentive to get the work done, its not asking drivers to run illegal just negates drivers dragging the job out as is the temptation would be if being paid hourly. The co. i sub for works this way and it works well, very few drivers hang around (employed of S.E) and they all earn very good money, most likely far more than if they were on an hourly rate. There are those however that prefer to just go at their own pace but obviously earn less, its a choice…
By the load/job and knock is a driver shooting himself in the foot usually by tear arsing around and these days ending up with more work/lower rates.
I sub and the employed drivers get paid by the load too. It works like an old school clearing house with loads coming in from all over Spain/Portugal eastern europe all at different rates. You put your name down for distance/ type of load (groupage/ADR ect). Once a month everyone gets a chance to do something different to even out pay so no one driver gets to stay on a particularly lucrative job and the whole thing works out well and very fairly. I get to stay on the Malaga to Calais slog as theres very few if anyone wants to do it. It possibly may encourage drivers to bend the rules elsewhere doing pay per load but at my place at least its done in the fairest way possible and works well. The driver turnover is very small…
AndrewG:
TiredAndEmotional:
AndrewG:
Paying by the load is an incentive to get the work done, its not asking drivers to run illegal just negates drivers dragging the job out as is the temptation would be if being paid hourly. The co. i sub for works this way and it works well, very few drivers hang around (employed of S.E) and they all earn very good money, most likely far more than if they were on an hourly rate. There are those however that prefer to just go at their own pace but obviously earn less, its a choice…
By the load/job and knock is a driver shooting himself in the foot usually by tear arsing around and these days ending up with more work/lower rates.
I sub and the employed drivers get paid by the load too. It works like an old school clearing house with loads coming in from all over Spain/Portugal eastern europe all at different rates. You put your name down for distance/ type of load (groupage/ADR ect). Once a month everyone gets a chance to do something different to even out pay so no one driver gets to stay on a particularly lucrative job and the whole thing works out well and very fairly. I get to stay on the Malaga to Calais slog as theres very few if anyone wants to do it. It possibly may encourage drivers to bend the rules elsewhere doing pay per load but at my place at least its done in the fairest way possible and works well. The driver turnover is very small…
Nothing to do with unemployment levels in Spain…?
I get the ‘work for a living’ bit, but is loading your trailer with a stacker before you set off not a step too far?
Rob. It sounds from the OPs post that the company are going for a whole new way of doing the job and are therefore ignoring any previous way of working and issuing a completely new contract. As I said, I don’t think the " driver / labourer " thing is too much to worry about, but as you say loading your motor with a fork truck is a big change when the company employ people to do that job at the moment. Apart from the train drivers dispute at the moment, I don’t think the unions have a good record on stopping companies getting a man to do his own job plus someone elses. You don’t see many bus conductors now do you ?
Regards. John.