Hi, I’ve been driving class one for around 4 years now and I’ve recently read up on the night drivers rules which I was totally unaware of!
My understanding of the rules is that as a driver of a Hgv at night, your shifts must not exceed 10 hours. If this is the case then I believe I have been breaking the rules for some time unaware.
I need someone to clarify this for me as I’m not sure where I stand legally here.
My shift starts at 16:30pm and finish times can be anywhere between 02:30 - 06:00
I have spoken to my company about this and they don’t seem to care. Also the company that I collect from on my night trunk are of the same opinion.
I need to know if I am allowed to work more than 10 hours or not. Reading the WTD it states that my hours should average 48 a week over a 26 week period but I’m trying also to work out how this can average at 48 if I’m doing around 12 hours a night and 5 nights a week?
I really need someone’s help with this as I’m not sure if I should refuse to do the hours I’m doing or not?
Can anyone here give me some sound advice on this?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheers
Geddron
Stands a chance that your workplace has an opt out in place, time at work is not the same as working time, relax youl be fine… 
WTD is just lipservice to the Eu anyway.
When you started your job, can you recall one of the million pieces of paper you signed saying something about an opt out? If so, this is a workplace agreement in which each employee signs to say they opt out of the rule, meaning you can work more than 10 hours. In my experience, this opt out is a given. I’ve never known any company that hasn’t opted out. The rule effectively exists on paper only.
The problem is, if you don’t sign it, you’re unlikely to get the job. My guess is you’ve signed it without realising, but you might need to determine this. I work nights and have for 13 years, and rarely work less than 10 hours.
A totally daft ruling. What possible difference is there working days to nights and why put a restriction on night work. Theres 24 hrs in a day and as long as you dont exceed your hrs in any given period it shouldnt matter… 
AndrewG:
A totally daft ruling. What possible difference is there working days to nights and why put a restriction on night work. Theres 24 hrs in a day and as long as you dont exceed your hrs in any given period it shouldnt matter…
^^^^^ This
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Thanks for your replies guys, I know I haven’t signed any agreement to opt out of the hours. The thing that worries me most is the rules I’ve read on the government website.
It states that any driver if a HGV is limited to a ten hour maximum shift time. If your hours of work include any time between midnight and 4am your shift time must not exceed 10 hours.
Also the working time directive states 48 hour average working week so how is that possible on a 60 hour week every week?
Im struggling to make sense of what I’m reading. I have been told by some friends who work at FedEx that they have all had their shifts capped to ten hours max if they work night shifts…
Personally the hours aren’t bothering me, but i don’t want to be putting my licence at risk by doing more than I’m supposed to.
I understand that most people working nights driving are doing more than 10 hours, it’s obviously impossible to do a lot of the runs if it’s limited to ten hours, but we all know the government bring some interesting spanners to the table at times.
I will be calling vosa tomorrow to ask them to explain the rules clearly and ask them if I am OK to continue. Should be an interesting conversation!
I’ll post whatever they tell me tomorrow if there’s anything interesting that comes up…
Thanks again for your time…
Just so you can see the legislation I’m talking about, you can read it here.
rmt.org.uk/about/health-and- … transport/
This is exactly the same as what’s written on the government site but I can’t copy the link for some reason??
If anyone has time, have a look and see what it says to you…
For a start I would stop worrying mate, as no one in enforcement really seems to care about WTD.
And as already said, you have probably signed an opt out and not realised it.
As for your 48 hour average and 60 hours max. Those hours are for Driving and Other work. Things like Break or POA don’t count.
Again I’m not sure those in enforcement care much, but it does allow some admin pleb in the office to get all excited. Our firm don’t like you going over your hours, but I think that’s just because there’s a ream of paperwork for them to fill out. It’s almost worth doing it to annoy them…
Which reminds me, I have to sign 6 seperate bits of paper at shift end tonight regarding me not getting any infringements last month…
FFS, where is the logic in that?
Evil8Beezle:
I have to sign 6 seperate bits of paper at shift end tonight regarding me not getting any infringements last month…
It would be beautiful if signing those pieces of paper put you 1 minute over your working time, and you received an infringement 
.
I would not worry is covers a company as a whole not just some.And you will have signed something as they seem not to worry about it.
Speak to the Operator to confirm the existence of an Opt Out.
A recent FOI request has indeed confirmed that the DVSA have not prosecuted any Operator / Driver for breaches of the WTD.
Nevertheless I would ask Operators / Drivers to consider the following:
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WTD fines are potentially Level 5 fines at Courts - that’s the top level at possibly £5000 a pop.
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If there is say an accident (let’s assume a Fatality) then there would be a “root and branch” investigation and if there is nothing else left to beat you with than the WTD, well what do you think would be used against you…
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If an Operator or Driver ever end up before a Traffic Commissioner, I would strongly suggest they avoid any negative references to the WTD …
Where I work, the 10 hour night rule is only used by four-day week drivers to get out of working a 48 hour week like the rest of us.
If you have a four day week and insist on popping your card and being picked up after 10 hours on duty, then you will only ever work a maximum 40 hour week.
A driver who consents to working more than 10 hours - usually via a local workplace agreement - can work the usual maximums of 15 hours at work 3 times per week, 9 hours driving in any one shift extendable to 10 hours twice a week, and have shifts that start and end at any time day or night subject to daily minimum rest gaps. All hours are treated as the same, and a shift allowance rather than a “late premium” is paid for your trouble.
As already mentioned the 48hr does not include POA or BREAKS.While on this subject of nights how many employers offer regular health checks for their night drivers?
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It’s worth pointing out that the WTD tends to be rigidly enforced by firms ‘if an employee is looking for overtime’ - but completely lapsed if the firm ‘wants you to do an extra run or two on a needs must basis’.
The vast majority of trunking yards in this country will have ALL their night drivers on duty (ie at work including breaks and POA time) for MORE than 48 hours per week EVERY week so the average is completely out of the window in the actual contract of employment from the word go… The “Opt Out” would be hidden in the contract of employment of course, otherwise all these firms would get heavily fined, and forced to clean up their act.
That didn’t happen in five years of me working for many of these outfits. The only firm that seemed to follow WTD to the letter was Royal Mail who give all their shifts of over 10 (duty time) hours in length to agency because their full time staff cannot pick them up without going over their aggregate averages… 
If Moderaters give me permission to name and shame here - I’ll post the names of all the companies I’m pointing the finger at here. 
Boris1971:
As already mentioned the 48hr does not include POA or BREAKS.While on this subject of nights how many employers offer regular health checks for their night drivers?
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If you fail the “medical” you’ll get taken off driving, so what driver in their right mind is going to opt in to a test which has downside but no upside? (You are allowed to keep your job if you’re still healthy, but you don’t get a payrise for being this paragon of fitness!) 
Sorry, I’ll answer my own question there:
If you are a permanent night driver who’s sick of working solid nights and wants to be given a day driving job at the same firm - but that firm won’t give that job to them… THEN you opt in for this “test”, fail it, and then the firm is forced to take you off night driving. I can’t see them wanting to medically retire you, so they’d just have to find a day run instead…
Someone like me though who lives and breaths permanent night jobs - is going to hang on by their finger nails and won’t be taken off driving without a fight unless being carted out in a black ambulance. 
Yeah that’s understandable but did not realise there was an opt out option on the medical as well the ten hour rule!
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Boris1971:
Yeah that’s understandable but did not realise there was an opt out option on the medical as well the ten hour rule!
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It was offered to me as a “Free medical for all permanent night staff” some years ago whilst I was still at RM.
I thought “Great. I’ll be able to find out my cholesterol levels, lipids, blood pressure checks, etc. and save myself a trip to my own GP who’d do it for free anyways”
Then I thought again a bit more deeply: If they find anything wrong, you might not only lose your licence, but your entire livelihood if you are a professional driver ONLY by that point, which I had just become because the former days of “Postman Drivers” had passed away already.
If they didn’t find anything wrong, you’ll still get your recall by the GP if you’re on any “DVLA AWARE” medication as I am.
In short, if you look for a reason for the firm to sack you - the firm will find one. I was never very popular at work. 
I simply side-stepped the medical being offered, because it was a “Free Health Check” and “Free”, then, - isn’t compulsory. 
Possession is 9/10ths of the law.