Harry Monk:
Grandpa:
I’ll go with what this guy is saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hSake-OUXUI see what you did there.
I did nothing Harry; away from the general consensus here it seems to be the commonly shared view in the real world. We got shafted so often and for so long it has become normal. I’m sure there are videos and articles telling everyone how wonderful the logistics sector now is, but I just can’t find them.
Grandpa:
Grandpa the ‘clown’ has no axe to grind as he’s now at the age of officially retiring. I remember better days, so I suspect will many others. Those who don’t will think a pound or two above a minimum hourly rate is big money and being run into the ground is normal. It wasn’t, but is now.I also understand the current rose coloured glasses view as no one would want to admit they’re in a dying industry, but I refer back to my link in the op (below), which is about the most honest 10 minutes I’ve come across and don’t forget to read the comments accompanying it because they paint a very different picture from what’s being said here. I spent six months in as many jobs in 2019 and so unless it’s markedly different everywhere else, I’ll go with what this guy is saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hSake-OUXU
I agree with you that both wages and conditions are in long-term decline. Where I disagree with you is that this is because there is a driver shortage.
Earlier someone mentioned that it is not just the driving profession who are expected to do long hours, doctors nurses and medical staff are working extra hours to cope with extra work, not just covid related.
My step daughter has done 3 years at University and is now doing a 1 year Teacher Training course at a school, she leaves home at 6.30am and is still working at 9pm at home, even during the Easter Holidays she has been doing a dissertation. They had a few drunken days in her early days at Uni and she met her boyfriend who is also training to be a History teacher. The conversations go straight over mum and dads head!
Any silly bugger can drive a lorry for 40 years. I did!
Harry Monk:
Grandpa:
Grandpa the ‘clown’ has no axe to grind as he’s now at the age of officially retiring. I remember better days, so I suspect will many others. Those who don’t will think a pound or two above a minimum hourly rate is big money and being run into the ground is normal. It wasn’t, but is now.I also understand the current rose coloured glasses view as no one would want to admit they’re in a dying industry, but I refer back to my link in the op (below), which is about the most honest 10 minutes I’ve come across and don’t forget to read the comments accompanying it because they paint a very different picture from what’s being said here. I spent six months in as many jobs in 2019 and so unless it’s markedly different everywhere else, I’ll go with what this guy is saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hSake-OUXUI agree with you that both wages and conditions are in long-term decline. Where I disagree with you is that this is because there is a driver shortage.
BUT GOOOOOOOOOOGLE and the RHA say THERE IS, therefore you are WRONG ! 
DCPCFML:
Harry Monk:
Grandpa:
Grandpa the ‘clown’ has no axe to grind as he’s now at the age of officially retiring. I remember better days, so I suspect will many others. Those who don’t will think a pound or two above a minimum hourly rate is big money and being run into the ground is normal. It wasn’t, but is now.I also understand the current rose coloured glasses view as no one would want to admit they’re in a dying industry, but I refer back to my link in the op (below), which is about the most honest 10 minutes I’ve come across and don’t forget to read the comments accompanying it because they paint a very different picture from what’s being said here. I spent six months in as many jobs in 2019 and so unless it’s markedly different everywhere else, I’ll go with what this guy is saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hSake-OUXUI agree with you that both wages and conditions are in long-term decline. Where I disagree with you is that this is because there is a driver shortage.
BUT GOOOOOOOOOOGLE and the RHA say THERE IS, therefore you are WRONG !
You two girls still at it, put your handbags away it’s getting a bit boring now
DCPCFML:
Harry Monk:
Grandpa:
Grandpa the ‘clown’ has no axe to grind as he’s now at the age of officially retiring. I remember better days, so I suspect will many others. Those who don’t will think a pound or two above a minimum hourly rate is big money and being run into the ground is normal. It wasn’t, but is now.I also understand the current rose coloured glasses view as no one would want to admit they’re in a dying industry, but I refer back to my link in the op (below), which is about the most honest 10 minutes I’ve come across and don’t forget to read the comments accompanying it because they paint a very different picture from what’s being said here. I spent six months in as many jobs in 2019 and so unless it’s markedly different everywhere else, I’ll go with what this guy is saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hSake-OUXUI agree with you that both wages and conditions are in long-term decline. Where I disagree with you is that this is because there is a driver shortage.
BUT GOOOOOOOOOOGLE and the RHA say THERE IS, therefore you are WRONG !
And just about everyone else in the UK. But you’re right?
Grandpa:
DCPCFML:
Harry Monk:
Grandpa:
Grandpa the ‘clown’ has no axe to grind as he’s now at the age of officially retiring. I remember better days, so I suspect will many others. Those who don’t will think a pound or two above a minimum hourly rate is big money and being run into the ground is normal. It wasn’t, but is now.I also understand the current rose coloured glasses view as no one would want to admit they’re in a dying industry, but I refer back to my link in the op (below), which is about the most honest 10 minutes I’ve come across and don’t forget to read the comments accompanying it because they paint a very different picture from what’s being said here. I spent six months in as many jobs in 2019 and so unless it’s markedly different everywhere else, I’ll go with what this guy is saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hSake-OUXUI agree with you that both wages and conditions are in long-term decline. Where I disagree with you is that this is because there is a driver shortage.
BUT GOOOOOOOOOOGLE and the RHA say THERE IS, therefore you are WRONG !
And just about everyone else in the UK. But you’re right?
To quote Harry Monk from a few posts ago (my bold):
"I agree with you that wages for HGV drivers have been largely stagnant for at least the last decade.
I disagree with you that the reason for this is that there is a driver shortage.
To me, this type of logic is so blindingly obvious that anyone who cannot understand it is clearly mentally sub-normal. I will leave it to others to decide whether they agree or disagree with this."
Wheel Nut:
Earlier someone mentioned that it is not just the driving profession who are expected to do long hours, doctors nurses and medical staff are working extra hours to cope with extra work, not just covid related.My step daughter has done 3 years at University and is now doing a 1 year Teacher Training course at a school, she leaves home at 6.30am and is still working at 9pm at home, even during the Easter Holidays she has been doing a dissertation. They had a few drunken days in her early days at Uni and she met her boyfriend who is also training to be a History teacher. The conversations go straight over mum and dads head!
Any silly bugger can drive a lorry for 40 years. I did!
I ended up with a Master’s degree, worked hard in a profession abroad and the only reason I’m here is age. If you have a degree, the UK is currently about the worse place you can be.
Harry Monk:
Grandpa:
Grandpa the ‘clown’ has no axe to grind as he’s now at the age of officially retiring. I remember better days, so I suspect will many others. Those who don’t will think a pound or two above a minimum hourly rate is big money and being run into the ground is normal. It wasn’t, but is now.I also understand the current rose coloured glasses view as no one would want to admit they’re in a dying industry, but I refer back to my link in the op (below), which is about the most honest 10 minutes I’ve come across and don’t forget to read the comments accompanying it because they paint a very different picture from what’s being said here. I spent six months in as many jobs in 2019 and so unless it’s markedly different everywhere else, I’ll go with what this guy is saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hSake-OUXUI agree with you that both wages and conditions are in long-term decline. Where I disagree with you is that this is because there is a driver shortage.
When the government, the media and the transport companies themselves say there’s a shortage, maybe they know something the forum doesn’t? From the ‘Warehouse to wheels’ and training ex-prisoners as HGV drivers schemes; do you think that might be a hint of a shortage crisis?
I came back into driving after over a decade’s absence and thought I might have a problem. I got swamped with offers. That they were from c**p general haulage isn’t the point, they were desperate and I could sense it. Everyone is saying the same, it’s only the forum that refuses to believe it.
‘Thousands of LGV licence holders not driving trucks …’
‘The Freight Transport Association and the Road Haulage Association issued a joint statement last year saying the industry is short by about 45,000 drivers, and another 40,000 are likely to leave by 2017.’
‘Moody Logistics’ ‘Warehouse to Wheels’ scheme tackles driver shortage.’
Grandpa:
I came back into driving after over a decade’s absence and thought I might have a problem. I got swamped with offers. That they were from c**p general haulage isn’t the point, they were desperate and I could sense it. Everyone is saying the same, it’s only the forum that refuses to believe it.
The Law of Supply and Demand refuses to believe it. If the wages were higher then many of the hundreds of thousands of people who hold HGV licences but choose not to drive trucks for a living would be tempted back into the industry.
EDIT to add. Did you not see this bit in the first link you posted?
“Could it in fact be the case that an oversupply of drivers has led to poor wages and conditions of employment, in turn making it deeply unattractive as an employment prospect?”
The driver shortage is and isn’t real at the same time. there are more people with a hgv licence in the uk than jobs, but not everyone with a licence is doing the job at this moment in time for various reasons, eg the depot i work at has 4 people with licences that are not driving anymore, 1 has become a shunter and 3 gone into warehouse so they can have more time with family.
The shortage from uk national drivers is been made up from drivers of other nationalities hence why 15-20% of jobs in the logistics industry in the uk is now done by foreign nationals.
Lets see what happens when the economy returns to pre pandemic levels, and now with the supply of eu nationals is curtailed if a true manifestation of the driver shortage appears, ie load’s sat in yards/warehouses.
Harry Monk:
Grandpa:
I came back into driving after over a decade’s absence and thought I might have a problem. I got swamped with offers. That they were from c**p general haulage isn’t the point, they were desperate and I could sense it. Everyone is saying the same, it’s only the forum that refuses to believe it.The Law of Supply and Demand refuses to believe it. If the wages were higher then many of the hundreds of thousands of people who hold HGV licences but choose not to drive trucks for a living would be tempted back into the industry.
EDIT to add. Did you not see this bit in the first link you posted?
“Could it in fact be the case that an oversupply of drivers has led to poor wages and conditions of employment, in turn making it deeply unattractive as an employment prospect?”
Yes, I agree many would come back if pay and conditions improved, but they don’t because they’re not improving. Yes, the drivers are there but the shortage is because it’s now an unattractive job. The economics of supply and demand only works if the supply has an incentive to cater to the demand.
I started driving a 35 cwt transit pick up at 17 Yeo. Those of you do not know what that was, then Google it. That was back in the 70’s. Have gone through the range and ended up with C+E… I have now given up, after 50 years. There are too many idiots on the roads and too many idiots in the office. There is so much stress for the driver, that I have said to myself, enough is enough. I still hold C+E, but will I drive a LGV again? Not unless it I am desperate, But I might do to help out a friend.
Basket case:
The driver shortage is and isn’t real at the same time. there are more people with a hgv licence in the uk than jobs, but not everyone with a licence is doing the job at this moment in time for various reasons, eg the depot i work at has 4 people with licences that are not driving anymore, 1 has become a shunter and 3 gone into warehouse so they can have more time with family.
The shortage from uk national drivers is been made up from drivers of other nationalities hence why 15-20% of jobs in the logistics industry in the uk is now done by foreign nationals.
Lets see what happens when the economy returns to pre pandemic levels, and now with the supply of eu nationals is curtailed if a true manifestation of the driver shortage appears, ie load’s sat in yards/warehouses.
Yes, I’ll go along with that, but the problem now is that post-pandemic comes a massive recession and you can already see that in the retail sector on the high streets. An additional problem is that after a couple of decades of imported foreign labour, if all foreigners now leave the UK the economy would grind to a standstill.
SWEDISH BLUE:
I started driving a 35 cwt transit pick up at 17 Yeo. Those of you do not know what that was, then Google it. That was back in the 70’s. Have gone through the range and ended up with C+E… I have now given up, after 50 years. There are too many idiots on the roads and too many idiots in the office. There is so much stress for the driver, that I have said to myself, enough is enough. I still hold C+E, but will I drive a LGV again? Not unless it I am desperate, But I might do to help out a friend.
It’s a conclusion reached by many, but not here where the majority are still stuck in the Yorkie bar past. A reminder of the 70s. 
youtube.com/watch?v=tU-KXuJAGgk
Grandpa:
Yes, the drivers are there but the shortage is because it’s now an unattractive job.
You don’t appear to understand the difference between the two. Unattractive terms ≠ shortage of drivers. You are conflating two separate issues. As you have admitted above, “the drivers are there” (ie. there is no driver shortage) but they aren’t willing to work for firms with unattractive terms and pay. That is not a driver issue, that is an unattractive terms and pay issue.
It’s a free market and so if you try to recruit only offering £10/hr when everyone else is paying £12/hr you are only going to receive applications from the dregs of society who have been banned from everywhere else due to their attitude and/or poor driving ability. The way to solve your recruitment issues is to make your terms and pay more attractive than your competitors, not go crying to RHA about driver shortages when there isn’t one, and not go crying to the government for subsidies either. If you have elected to take on work with such thin profit margins that you can only afford to pay £10/hr then whose fault is that?
Companies offering good terms and pay have no recruitment issues. Go figure. So can you now please stop with this driver shortage nonsense as it’s a complete fallacy.
if you really want a blast from the past, You tube “Destination Doha” those were the days lol.
DCPCFML:
Grandpa:
Yes, the drivers are there but the shortage is because it’s now an unattractive job.You don’t appear to understand the difference between the two. Unattractive terms ≠ shortage of drivers. You are conflating two separate issues. As you have admitted above, “the drivers are there” (ie. there is no driver shortage) but they aren’t willing to work for firms with unattractive terms and pay. That is not a driver issue, that is an unattractive terms and pay issue.
It’s a free market and so if you try to recruit only offering £10/hr when everyone else is paying £12/hr you are only going to receive applications from the dregs of society who have been banned from everywhere else due to their attitude and/or poor driving ability. The way to solve your recruitment issues is to make your terms and pay more attractive than your competitors, not go crying to RHA about driver shortages when there isn’t one, and not go crying to the government for subsidies either. If you have elected to take on work with such thin profit margins that you can only afford to pay £10/hr then whose fault is that?
Companies offering good terms and pay have no recruitment issues. Go figure. So can you now please stop with this driver shortage nonsense as it’s a complete fallacy.
Your problem with a free market theory is that most jobs now are general haulage and to be fair to them, they can’t compete against the East European companies doing business in the UK. You must love this thread, you can’t keep off it. Are you a general haulage employer by any chance? 
Here’s another video from the former FTA.
Here are some reality quotes from the link:
‘I left the job ten years ago and I’ve just come back and I’m still on the same money now as I was ten years ago.’
‘I wouldn’t want anyone to do it, it’s such a rat race now, it’s horrible.’
‘My daughter, she had an interest in it, but I managed to persuade her not to …’
‘… I’m probably on the same rate as a shelf-stacker in Aldi; that isn’t right.’
‘Driving lorries is a dying trade, yep.’
You hate these short videos don’t you, or any source that goes against your beliefs. They’re drivers telling you what the reality is away from your fantasies. No one wants to admit the logistics sector is now a near minimum wage scam industry and part of our collapsing gig-economy. Tell me more about your p**s easy job, driving around playing ‘tunes’ all day whilst looking forward to getting your head down at the next drop? I figured it out in 2019 and so did many others.
When Britain started to import foreign labour by opening its borders with Eastern Europe, what’s happening now was inevitable. As much as I enjoy your unsourced opinions, I’ll pass.
SWEDISH BLUE:
if you really want a blast from the past, You tube “Destination Doha” those were the days lol.
I never got into the long-distance international runs and only seriously began driving as an occupation in the mid-90’s onwards. Thanks to Blair’s borrowing and the idea that we could spend our way out of recessions, I’ll admit I might have been a bit spoiled by the days when employers thanked you at the end of a shift and a pump truck was part of the warehouse kit and not the drivers.
As you are clearly too stupid to understand the difference between the two I will leave it to others to attempt to educate you, although I fear they will be wasting their time when you refuse to accept the microeconomic law of supply and demand which has been in effect for at least 2000 years. But you know best, because google and some random mouth-breather on youtube say so. OK then. It’s like arguing with Carryfast: no actual real world experience, but claims to be an expert on the subject matter from finding a few selective links on the internet which suit his argument.
