Having read and posted on recent topics especially about auto boxes I thought I would put my views in this thread.
To me the introduction of testing in auto boxes was absolutely the correct decision as a lot of new trucks in the industry are auto, but not all trucks.
I agree that it’s probably easier to train in a auto box rather than a range change gear box.
I think it’s a correct assumption that most people drive manual cars and are use to gears.
How many times do some of you experienced drivers jump in a auto truck and go straight for the clutch? I know I do regularly.
IMO a straight six gear box or slap over is no harder than a auto box and maybe easier as you tend to get a better feel and control of the truck.
As the debate will probably go on manual v auto what must not be overlooked is the quality and value of training you are paying for.
Good post Paul. And I agree almost totally with it’s content. Personally I have no problems going for a clutch that isn’t there. Maybe that’s from driving an auto car.
As I have stated several times, certainly until the dust settles and a new level is found, I am happy to provide choice.
As the debate will probably go on manual v auto what must not be overlooked is the quality and value of training you are paying for.
The quality of the training has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not a new driver who passed the test in an automatic should be allowed to drive a vehicle fitted with a manual gearbox.
How can the quality of training possibly make a difference to someone who has to drive a vehicle that has an added difficulty that wasn’t there when he/she was trained
Driving large vehicles is in some ways about multi-tasking, you’re concentrating on what’s going on around you at the same time as being aware of which way you have to go, what lane to be in ec’t, and at the same time making sure that you’re in the most appropriate gear for the situation you’re in.
By allowing learners to take the test in automatics it’s doing away with one of the main variables involved in driving large vehicles and therefore making the test easier, frankly this stuff people come out with about most people having used manual gears in a car so it’s OK to take the HGV test in an automatic is just nonsense, the fact that someone knows how to change gear doesn’t necessarily mean he/she can do it safely whilst driving a large vehicle in traffic.
The fact that a learner can safely pass a test in an automatic in no way indicates that the same driver would be safe in a vehicle with a manual gearbox, it’s true that there are far more automatics on the road as each year passes but there are still and awful lot of manual vehicles about so a new driver stands a high chance of having to drive one.
Having said that, we are where we are and it’s not going to change so I don’t blame anyone for taking the easiest option and learning in an auto, in fact given how much it costs to get a licence it seems the wise thing to do, but to suggest that it’s not making the test easier or that the quality of the training will in some way make up for the fact that the learner now has less to concentrate on while driving a large vehicle simply makes no sense to me.
I understand Tachograph’s point and it was my first reaction when the changes were first mooted. But we must remember that, up until about 9 years ago, the vast majority of people learned on flat back truck, empty with a straight six speed gearbox. There is no evidence that there were problems with the same people driving range change, splitter or auto. But the powers that be decided to mend a problem that wasn’t there and insisted on 8 forward gears and a box or curtainside vehicle. Then, this year, we have binned the 8 speed gearbox (that was 20 years too late coming) and gone for auto or straight box. And, for good measure, we’re now loaded - - once again to cure an issue that didn’t exist.
There isn’t a way of satisfying all the arguments that are put forward. I accept that. So, as a trainer, I take the responsibility of delivering training that will give the candidate the required result on test day and also give them a grounding for the “real world”. As we operate a full range of vehicles - drawbar/artic, auto/manual folks are able to select their route to a test pass and then continue to develop their skills on alternative vehicles. I’m not quite sure what more we can do.
As a learner myself I would sooner train on a manual than an auto because anyone can drive a auto I want to learn then proper way and use gears make the choice myself!!! Auto to easy!!!
pippy1979:
As a learner myself I would sooner train on a manual than an auto because anyone can drive a auto I want to learn then proper way and use gears make the choice myself!!! Auto to easy!!!
That’s the feed back I’m getting from customers who book in.
While I appreciate you still have some manual vehicles I also agree the quality of training does count.
My C1 instructor was a very experienced driver and spoke about many situations he had encountered. I have since come across some of these and remembered the words of my instructor. Had I have had an instructor with such little experience or passion for teaching then I doubt I’d have been as well placed to deal with things.
Peter Smythe:
Personally I have no problems going for a clutch that isn’t there.
I wouldn’t either, except that’s where they’ve put the steering wheel adjuster knob on the Mercedes I drove a couple of weeks back. Imagine going for the clutch and the steering wheel collapsing into your lap…
pippy1979:
As a learner myself I would sooner train on a manual than an auto because anyone can drive a auto I want to learn then proper way and use gears make the choice myself!!! Auto to easy!!!
Glad I took mine in a manual too best to learn with someone next to you than out on your own
I was quite surprised to read about tests and auto boxes, can’t say I agree either, surly better to learn in a manual and go to auto after? Bring back the Eaton twin splitter sort of automatic, with a bit of manual intervention
Peter Smythe:
I understand Tachograph’s point and it was my first reaction when the changes were first mooted. But we must remember that, up until about 9 years ago, the vast majority of people learned on flat back truck, empty with a straight six speed gearbox. There is no evidence that there were problems with the same people driving range change, splitter or auto. But the powers that be decided to mend a problem that wasn’t there and insisted on 8 forward gears and a box or curtainside vehicle. Then, this year, we have binned the 8 speed gearbox (that was 20 years too late coming) and gone for auto or straight box. And, for good measure, we’re now loaded - - once again to cure an issue that didn’t exist.
There isn’t a way of satisfying all the arguments that are put forward. I accept that. So, as a trainer, I take the responsibility of delivering training that will give the candidate the required result on test day and also give them a grounding for the “real world”. As we operate a full range of vehicles - drawbar/artic, auto/manual folks are able to select their route to a test pass and then continue to develop their skills on alternative vehicles. I’m not quite sure what more we can do.
Pete
When I first attempted class 1 in May, the instructor told me that years ago, many people did class 1 in a flat-bed with a five-speed gearbox and a flat-bed trailer. Must have been an awful lot cheaper.
Whatever happened in the past, perhaps some of the changes were made for good reason. Very few of the vehicles you’ll drive in work will be unladen flatbeds, after all, and quite a few will have range-change gearboxes. Letting people gain category C with manual entitlement without learning to use one is a bad idea, IMHO. At class 1, having a manual gearbox is less important (if you learned that for class 2) because the trailer skills are what are being taught and tested.
Just my two cents here but I learnt in an auto box. My first time getting behind the wheel of a truck was luckily in an auto, thankfully it was one exactly like the unit I did my first weeks training on so I knew what I was doing. Having an auto on the test I believe it better as it takes a lot of the stress out of the actual test. I’m not saying it makes it easier for you to pass but I believe it saves you getting all in a tizzy because of the gears.
Now what should happen next is you should get the chance to have a go in a manual if you want to. My first time driving a range change from a night run starting at 4am from Lincoln to Wakefield. This was a bit of a challenge but I had already passed my test and I had the basics of driving a truck down so I could focus more on the gears. Now it would of been better if I had something with me who knew what they were doing but thats not always possible. How many times have you arrived at a new RDC and go “I’m supposed to put this in there?!” You just have to get on with it and learn. My first experience driving a knock over was again at night doing a run to a Pallex depot. It was tight and full of other drivers watching my every move but I just got on with it.
I absolutely 100% agree with tachograph on this one.
I know of people who have only ever driven automatic cars, when they had a go in a manual, they have not had a clue how to hold it together. Some people I know cringe at the thought of having to use a gear stick. My mum, who passed her car test in a manual, was and still is a really nervous driver in a manual, but she’s fine in an automatic.
Transfer what I just said over to trucks, then you’ve got a whole different ball game on your hands. Thankfully I passed my cat C in a manual, 4 over 4 daf cf, if I’d had passed in an auto, then jumped into a 4 over 4 truck, I would have royally bricked my pants and no doubt struggled and have been a nervous wreck.
As pete has mentioned before, passing in an auto may be easier and cheaper (in the sense it increases your chances of passing the test first time, due to not having to worry about gear changes) but it would probably then be a good idea to have an hour or two lessons in a manual after passing your test, just so you know what to expect when you get given the keys to a manual truck.
I would still rather learn in one than an auto , it increases your options
How? The licence entitlement is identical regardless of what vehicle was used for test (provided the candidate held a full manual car licence at the time of the test).
