ROG:
Are drivers these days less competent than we were in our day when we passed?
Most of us oldies passed in a straight 6 with no splitter or range change then we went on to drive trucks with both and we managed very safely
I had straight 4/5 gear cars then went on to pass the old HVG class 1 in a straight 6 and my first assessment was in an artic with both range and splitter - I, along with every other driver in those days asked how it worked then we drove it … made even harder at times as many were still crash boxes !!
Had I at that time passed in an auto then the situation on that assessment would have been the same
So are current new drivers less capable
I’m pretty sure that the roads are busier these days, ROG. That would add to the pressure of a newbie.
You say it like no lorry driver ever has made an error and caused incidents, which they have. I respect the fact that you learnt in 1 type of box, then got given a different type of box, then went on to have no issues at all, but, as Tockwith likes to say - “moving with the times” moving with the times means acknowledging that there is more traffic about, more idiots on the road, an increased number of roadworks to cater for the demand in the amount of traffic, etc etc.
Still though, I see the main point I raise is usually sidestepped. If someone caused a fatal incident, because of their lack of experience with a vehicle’s gearbox, would everybody concerned be happy with “I was learning how to drive this particular vehicle”
My apologies I did not realise the law had changed and you could now pass a car license and then go straight to hgv , I knew there used to be time limits and age gaps .
I will also apologise now for my horrndous driving when I go out in a manual this week as having passed in an auto I won’t have a clue what I’m doing and will be driving all over the road while trying to find my gears .
If I’d known this I would have not gone with the training centre recommended and searched for manual only trainers as that would have made me a better hgv driver .
Many thanks to those who have put me right on my misconceptions .
Endgame:
A busier road would make a difference to somebody learning how to use a gearbox they have never encountered before.
Which is going to happen no matter what they do their training and test with so how does your conclusion seem logical in that context?
OK.
My argument is, that somebody who chooses to use and pass their test with an automatic HGV because they don’t like GEARS is going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to GEARS.
With that in mind^^^^^^ How can you not see the logic, in somebody struggling, on a busy road, in a manual truck, when all they have ever driven is an automatic? An automatic, btw, that they chose to drive because they was uncomfortable with gears? I see the logic in what I’m saying.
We have been offering the choice of manual or auto since May. Also the opportunity to have an hour, under instruction, in a manual having passed in an auto.
And the number of folks that have taken up that offer:
ZERO!
Not saying this is right or wrong. But show me the statistics to demonstrate that these drivers have accidents and cause mayhem when they’re sorting out a manual. I expect they will stand alongside the stats showing that all new drivers are accident prone. (Tongue in cheek - statistics do not show this at all).
It may just possibly mean that companies are taking their responsibility for familiarisation/induction training more seriously.
My point is about the reality of getting landed with a manual truck, when somebody chose to pass in an auto because they don’t like gears. It’s not about whether somebody would prefer to use an auto. To be fair, using an auto is the easiest way to pass, so obviously more people are going to opt for it, there is more than 1 reason out there for wanting to pass in an auto other than not wanting to do it because somebody can’t hack the gears. If the option of auto had been presented to me, I may have taken it, but not because I’m incapable of using a gearbox.
I don’t think the auto rule has been in long enough, Peter, to show you statistics regarding new HGV drivers and the accident rate.
Regardless, I stand by my initial statement. If somebody uses an auto to pass their test because they lack the ability to use gears, then sending them out on public roads, in a manual, is a bad idea. As plenty others on this post seem to agree, I stand by that being a logical comment.
Endgame:
Regardless, I stand by my initial statement. If somebody uses an auto to pass their test because they lack the ability to use gears, then sending them out on public roads, in a manual, is a bad idea. As plenty others on this post seem to agree, I stand by that being a logical comment.
Just popped in and found this thread quite an interesting read.
I would at the moment go along with this point as even though manuals may become a rare breed of truck perhaps saved for specialist work it would be very daunting and distracting for a new pass only familiar with autos to be presented with a manual box.
Would there be safety issues, well using some of their concentration worrying about the gears I would have to say yes. But its down to the individual to fluff it a bit and get used to it on the open road, the first few miles would be a challenge though.
This ability to fluff it and just crack on is one of the recognised (by me anyway) skillsets of the average driver.
Are auto boxes dumbing down the industry, well possibly but then theres an argument that with increased traffic theres more need for drivers (especially new ones) to have more concentration capacity available for the open road.
But even a good auto box can be a challenge, especially if it throws a neutral and gives the reasurring beep that the computer has cocked up and needs the drivers help (possibly one for actros drivers).
Does passing your test in a auto box make you a less competent driver, well no not really but perhaps less prepared for different vehicle types, but in the end all your pass certificate gives you is the basic grasp of LGV driving and a licence to learn. There own talent will be what guides them from then on to either face new challenges with relish or whimper off and say ‘I can’t drive this truck its got 3 pedals’…
Perhaps training schools with a varied manual / auto fleet could offer a 2 - 4 hour bonus module (at a price of course) for one of their students thats has just passed to spend a bit of time in a manual if they would like to. Would be nice to have a drive with less pressure on with your original instructor allowing more freedom to learn, oh and the student would have to buy them breakfast of course.
Endgame:
Regardless, I stand by my initial statement. If somebody uses an auto to pass their test because they lack the ability to use gears, then sending them out on public roads, in a manual, is a bad idea. As plenty others on this post seem to agree, I stand by that being a logical comment.
This. I don’t see how anyone could argue against this. If after 7 hours of training you are still struggling to put the thing in the correct gear then perhaps lorry driving isn’t for you.
Just my 2pence worth…
Don,t use a broker …go direct…my instructor was also an examiner …he didn’t tell me that Untill test day …so i knew I had been in good hands …I clicked with him on day 1 …so all was good …
Morning of my test the examiner and I had some banter on our way to the lorry, and on my test aswell … Made me feel relaxed
But back to the topic
I think it’s best to learn in a geared lorry …I think had i passed in a auto …then went for that 1st job and find its a geared lorry I wouldn’t of had a clue …IMO passing in a auto is the easy option and you don’t learn a lot…yesturday I drove my 1st auto box (agy) I did,nt like it …
At the mo I have a full time job driving a 7.5 and work for a agy every other Saturday just to gain that experience driving a class 2 …but still looking for class 2 job that’s full time
My way of thinking is if I do have a “prang” whilest learning the worst case is the agy strike me off but I still have my full time job
Passing your test means you can drive …but the experience is something you learn
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, learning in an auto is not a bad thing. When you pass you have already demonstrated that you are competent enough to handle a large vehicle on the roads. You are also showing that you can handle any situation that is presented to you because if you can’t you are going to find out the hard way that this industry does not suffer fools for long.
My first experinence of driving a manual was in a 26 tonner with a 4 over 4 with a splitter. Yes it was scary but I didn’t have someone breathing down my neck, watching my every move. Yes I crunched the gears, yes I stalled it, yes I most likely used the wrong gear to move off in at times but that is all part of the learning process.
Well i found gears pretty easy to use no problems at all. 4 over 4 in the big Volvo fm7 i learned to drive in. I wanted to learn in a manual just so i could get used to the gears etc so there wouldn’t be any surprises. When i go to do my arctic that will also be the same gearbox. I do think though that if you pass in a auto truck you shouldn’t get the manual for trucks. Truck gearbox’s are a totally different beast from cars and vans.
Gregorys, kays biggest firm down this way run a fully manual fleet in all vehicles. All building company ones a mostly manuals. Gardners another firm has just replaced aload of 13t with 4 over 4 and all there 26t the same. And a few more local companies and thats just the last few months.
Radar19:
You are also showing that you can handle any situation that is presented to you because if you can’t you are going to find out the hard way that this industry does not suffer fools for long.
Obviously not, hence this whole debate about auto/gears, as some have already made clear they can’t handle gears so opt for auto to pass. They will still have to master gears as some point and sooner rather than later.
This is right I have no problem with gears it’s just when under the pressure with an examiner and 16 hours behind the wheel. (Not enough) how someone can take an extra 16 hours and pass in an attic without some road trafic situations training im to disbelief
How can someone have such little experience and be able to drive such a thing down the road
Any way I passed in the auto if I had not it probably would of cost me a bomb in more training so yes I have saved money and I will get to practice more with the gears now I can get employed so I’m training myself and getting paid for it. Surely this is best, no?
