My dream is to own my own truck

[harry_monk]

If you want to give it a go, then give it a go. I did for four years, and it suited my needs at the time but I never really earned any more than I could have earned as an employed driver. I was hoping to get more of my own work, but this never happened for reasons I gave earlier. I don’t regret doing it for a New York minute though, and I came out of it with an Operator’s CPC which was what got me the job I start on Monday, I also bought a hell of a lot of (tax deductible) tools and equipment which now come in very handy on my boat.

The trouble with subbing is that firms know how much they have to pay you in order for you to keep the truck running and draw a wage, and they don’t pay a penny more. Do try to get your own work rather than subbing. The one piece of advice I would give is “Always give yourself an escape route” which in my mind would rule out tying yourself into a long lease, or buying a new truck on finance which will be worth less than you paid for it for virtually all of the finance term.

[stanny_1985]

Harry Monk:
If you want to give it a go, then give it a go. I did for four years, and it suited my needs at the time but I never really earned any more than I could have earned as an employed driver. I was hoping to get more of my own work, but this never happened for reasons I gave earlier. I don’t regret doing it for a New York minute though, and I came out of it with an Operator’s CPC which was what got me the job I start on Monday, I also bought a hell of a lot of (tax deductible) tools and equipment which now come in very handy on my boat.

The trouble with subbing is that firms know how much they have to pay you in order for you to keep the truck running and draw a wage, and they don’t pay a penny more. Do try to get your own work rather than subbing. The one piece of advice I would give is “Always give yourself an escape route” which in my mind would rule out tying yourself into a long lease, or buying a new truck on finance which will be worth less than you paid for it for virtually all of the finance term.

so if you had ago can i tap your experience for some knowledge. So subbing is it very much a set figure across most companies and one thing is it all based on being paid via mileage or can you get shift rates?

[harry_monk]

I was on job rate, which was reasonable until the Old Man retired and the next generation took over, and they looked for cost savings everywhere, including rates paid to subbies. I understand that supermarkets pay shift rates and I was offered a chance to pull for Lidl at Northfleet for a fairly good day rate, but by then I had pretty much lost all interest in trucks altogether.

[newmercman]

Harry, how did you get on with breakdowns and repairs over the course of your enterprise?

Did they remain within budget and expectations?

Were there months when you just about kept your head above water, which were balanced out by good months?

Do you consider yourself fortunate to come out of the experience debt free?

I think you could answer a lot of questions here with your experiences over the last few years.

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[harry_monk]

When I bought the truck I allowed £150 a week for maintenance, which was fairly accurate as an average, although of course I could go six months without spending anything and then get a £4,000 bill. As the truck got older, the maintenance costs increased sharply, this was offset to a degree by the fact that the finance payments finished, which gave me another £600 a month to play with in the final year, but at the end the truck needed replacing with something newer- it was 8 years old and had done nearly a million km- but the change of management at Gregory’s had been unfavourable to subbies and due to other life circumstances having changed I decided to go off and do something else instead.

I’ve still got the O licence, but I doubt I will use it again and I’m expecting to surrender it next year when it comes up for renewal, which will be a shame as it has such a memorable number, OK1110000.

[carryfast]

Harry Monk:
When I bought the truck I allowed £150 a week for maintenance, which was fairly accurate as an average, although of course I could go six months without spending anything and then get a £4,000 bill. As the truck got older, the maintenance costs increased sharply, this was offset to a degree by the fact that the finance payments finished, which gave me another £600 a month to play with in the final year, but at the end the truck needed replacing with something newer- it was 8 years old and had done nearly a million km- but the change of management at Gregory’s had been unfavourable to subbies

Realistically ‘start up capital’ means enough to buy a vehicle outright.That’s good enough,to stay together long enough,to earn enough,to replace it with something relatively newer later in stages on a rolling basis. The fact that modern Euro types seem to have useful working lives effectively measured in single figures and less than a million kilometres says everything in that regard.

On that note that means ideally being in the similar type of situation that you described after your finance payments had finished from day 1.But also with a truck at that point which still has a decent amount of working life left in it and rates as you described before the customer went on a rate cutting mission.

While the fact that modern Euro type trucks seem to have working lives measured in single figures and less than 1 million kilometres and depreciation levels to match says everything in that regard.Arguably to the point of being economically unviable for purpose at any age at typical sub contract rates v fuel costs.

Which just leaves the question of what if the idea was just turned into the nothing to lose gamble of a really cheap vehicle bought for peanuts at almost scrap value that at worst can be thrown away if it breaks.But which would obviously equally pay for itself easier if it can hold together for at least a year’s work if not hopefully more.Bearing in mind what around £5,000 will earn left in the bank.IE is/should there be a big difference in the buying criterea of a new start owner driver here at typical sub contract rates as opposed to their third world counterpart.

trucks.autotrader.co.uk/used-tru … /5000/7999

[newmercman]

That’s how I did it the second time around Carryfast, I initially started by buying the lorry I was driving for an own account operation that didn’t know one end of a lorry from another, so much so that the previous driver had conned them into buying an F16 Globetrotter for two runs from London to Belgium each week, running out empty and coming back with about 10ton in the trailer, it had been downplated to 28ton ffs!

I built that up to a dozen motors in a short time, it was an eclectic fleet that had a Daf, an ERF, a Strato, a couple of Mercs, various Volvos, an IVECO and a Scania, then my biggest customer was bought out and I’d had a punch up with the son of the owner and being a sore loser, that was the end of that for me. I found other work, but not as profitable, so I dwindled the fleet down to one and then sold that when the French stopped us running home on a Sunday and got a job. It was nice to have no worries and the job I had was very well paid and I had a brand new high spec unit and trailer. Then I moved into the office and from had a spell at TRUCK magazine.

But the itch returned and I needed my name on a log book again, so I bought an old IVECO for 5k and prepared to do it all again, I took the lorry for its test and the tester asked me if I was taking the ■■■■, it was a bit scruffy to say the least, but it passed, as I knew it would and I tidied it up a bit and worked it to death, I never spent a penny on it and soon I had enough money to buy the best lorry I’ve ever owned, a Scania 143, I soon got delusions of grandeur again and bought a brand new 540 Stralis, intending to get rid of the 143, but I didn’t and I kept it for myself and got a driver for the new one, I then bought a new lorry every 6months until I filled my O license up and ended up with customers coming out of my ears, doing a bit here and a bit there for them all and sometimes subbing work out to the friends I’ve mentioned before in this thread, then I got onto a major supermarket chain and life became very easy, I had the lorries working 24/7 and the bank manager started phoning me for a chat, rather than ask when I was going to clear my overdraft. Then steady Eddie rolled into town and I was out on my arse again! I could’ve turned it around, but I couldn’t be bothered, it coincided with a relationship break up and I ran it into the ground out of spite so I didn’t have to give her half of everything I’d worked for while she had her nails done and went shopping and I ended up back in my 143. I had enough of that in a short space of time as the Eastern European invasion had just started, so I sold that and started selling lorries for Mercedes, hence the newmercman moniker.

That started getting wobbly when the recession started to bite and I ended up in Canada in 2008, vowing to never own another lorry as long as I lived.

Now I own two of the [zb]ing things. It’s a bloody disease this lorry game and I’m sure it will kill me in the end, talk about a Rollercoaster ride, so if you are serious about buying a lorry, make sure you are well strapped in and hang on for dear life as you’re just a passenger on an out of control machine!

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[carryfast]

Going by that example it seems that a haulage company will just grow naturally from an owner driver operation more by accident than design if its meant to be.But as I said I don’t think there’s any reason to think that throwing big money at the first truck to start up with will have any more of a successful outcome,than the idea of going for the lowest purchase cost option possible and gambling that it will hold together long enough to pay,or hopefully more than pay,for itself which is really the best that can be hoped for.As opposed to the millstone of big finance/lease costs to add to crippling fuel costs and with no easy exit if it all goes pear shaped.With that threshold obviously being lower in the case of an outright £5,000-7500 outlay to get on the road,as opposed to an ongoing lease payment with numerous minefield conditions or a financed £25,000 +.

As for that roller coaster you described.If only I was in a position to have a go because I like the look of that old MAN TGA in the ad and I think it might just do a similar job as that old IVECO that you started up with.All for old banger car money in which case it it broke just flog it for scrap.

[newmercman]

That’s exactly what I did with the IVECO, it went to the gas axe. It was a strange choice of lorry, a fuel guzzling V8 with temperamental Italian electrics and a cab made out of recycled chinky trays, but it was only ever going to be a short term solution and the mechanical parts on those old IVECOs are bombproof, it could’ve bitten me on the arse big time, but even a catastrophic failure would’ve only seen me a couple of grand out of pocket, so it was a risk worth taking.

Whether the same is true now is hard to say, the ministry were easily avoided back then and a lot of things that we used to get away with are not possible anymore, but having done it in the three ways it’s possible to start up, I think this is the best way.

As I said, first time out I started with an expensive top of the range lorry, but I never had to put anything down, the company I worked at financed it to me at zero interest and the rates I was getting were extremely good, without that help I wouldn’t have lasted 6months.

Second time around, I had the benefits of hindsight and experience, so I took it steady for a couple of years, the growth was organic and customer driven.

Third time around I bought a new lorry, I could’ve bought a very decent used lorry for the money I put into the deposit for the new one, but it isn’t my first rodeo and I was in a position to buy new, so I did, however in the two and a half years I’ve owned it, I haven’t earned any more than I would have with an older lorry. So buying new was really an indulgence, albeit one I could afford.

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[harry_monk]

Carryfast:
.With that threshold obviously being lower in the case of an outright £5,000-7500 outlay to get on the road,as opposed to an ongoing lease payment with numerous minefield conditions or a financed £25,000 +.

I think the problem with buying a truck for £5,000- £7,000 is that you are just buying somebody else’s trouble. Anything which sells for that type of money is ready for a one-way trip to Walvis Bay.

[punchy_dan]

Harry Monk:

Carryfast:
.With that threshold obviously being lower in the case of an outright £5,000-7500 outlay to get on the road,as opposed to an ongoing lease payment with numerous minefield conditions or a financed £25,000 +.

I think the problem with buying a truck for £5,000- £7,000 is that you are just buying somebody else’s trouble. Anything which sells for that type of money is ready for a one-way trip to Walvis Bay.

Depends if you know what your looking at ,we’ve had 2 w reg Erfs the £6000 one did 6 yrs with only items like brakes ,tyres ect ,and sold on for £4000,the other was £4000 and is in its 4 th yr again with only brakes ,tyres and minor items and still going strong and probably worth £3000 as it stands .

[newmercman]

I do think it’s easier for us older chaps to run a scrapper, we started out on much worse, so comparatively a Mercedes Axor is a luxury to what we’ve had on the past.

That’s the lorry I would look for personally if starting out again on a small budget. A simple reliable workhorse.

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[carryfast]

Punchy Dan:

Harry Monk:

Carryfast:
.With that threshold obviously being lower in the case of an outright £5,000-7500 outlay to get on the road,as opposed to an ongoing lease payment with numerous minefield conditions or a financed £25,000 +.

I think the problem with buying a truck for £5,000- £7,000 is that you are just buying somebody else’s trouble. Anything which sells for that type of money is ready for a one-way trip to Walvis Bay.

Depends if you know what your looking at ,we’ve had 2 w reg Erfs the £6000 one did 6 yrs with only items like brakes ,tyres ect ,and sold on for £4000,the other was £4000 and is in its 4 th yr again with only brakes ,tyres and minor items and still going strong and probably worth £3000 as it stands .

Blimey that’s taking bangernomics to a new level.

To be fair the idea is obviously a gamble.But it’s possibly one which can be tilted more in the buyer’s favour in terms of what could hopefully turn out to be a free truck in the short term after the minimal purchase price has been paid off balanced against it’s potential remaining service life.With the win win situation of an easy exit if the job goes pear shaped or being able to park the thing up if it doesn’t suit.

As opposed to the situation of desperately needing to keep an expensively financed or leased truck working at all costs just to cover it’s purchase costs with no easy way out.

As for the Axor option it’s residual values seem to confirm a good potential in that regard.IE what seems to be around £5000-7,500 for other options seems to be around £8,500 + in that case.

[albion]

I thoroughly enjoyed the trip down memory lane NMM. I say I wouldn’t ever do it again, makes me wonder!

I started with second hand vans. I would never have started with new, might have liked to start with better second hand at times though. Now we mostly buy new because we are established, but a decent second hand, then we’re interested.

[nsmith1180]

newmercman:
I do think it’s easier for us older chaps to run a scrapper, we started out on much worse, so comparatively a Mercedes Axor is a luxury to what we’ve had on the past.

That’s the lorry I would look for personally if starting out again on a small budget. A simple reliable workhorse.

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Axor is another option I am looking at for outright purchase or an early Actros 2545 streamspace 2.3m cab. A bit more expensive but good for a million miles without breaking sweat.

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[mattwoodtransport]

nsmith1180:
What you see as arse about face I see as playing it as safe as you can. An added bonus of owning outright is that it is a lot easier to stand the truck for holidays than if you have a lease. Surely all the additional payroll, liability insurance and damage risk savings would make that even more preferable.

That being said, I did say and mean that I’m being well swayed by the reliability/warranty protection of a newer machine along with better consumption and a more comfortable living environment. The arguments are beginning to stack up.

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I’m not sure if you know smith, I haven’t heard you mention this, but there is the option of renting a new truck without the tie in. You just ring all the dealers asking to be rung when something gets returned. The downside is it won’t be what you wanted, it won’t be spec’d to what you want but is a sensible option. My last truck was £330 a week maintained with inspections from Scania but I got tired of the manual box. Current one is a Renault 2014 (I got it earlier this year) , very basic but came with alloys, I miss a steered midlift and it doesn’t have a diff lock which is a pain running a flat on and off building sites. There isn’t a tie in but do expect the brush off from the dealer if you try and return it for more than six weeks a year. I had 3 week off in June and they were mindful I wasn’t having it back as we haven’t a long relationship but they were OK about it.

[mattwoodtransport]

Harry Monk:
When I bought the truck I allowed £150 a week for maintenance, which was fairly accurate as an average, although of course I could go six months without spending anything and then get a £4,000 bill. As the truck got older, the maintenance costs increased sharply, this was offset to a degree by the fact that the finance payments finished, which gave me another £600 a month to play with in the final year, but at the end the truck needed replacing with something newer- it was 8 years old and had done nearly a million km- but the change of management at Gregory’s had been unfavourable to subbies and due to other life circumstances having changed I decided to go off and do something else instead.

I’ve still got the O licence, but I doubt I will use it again and I’m expecting to surrender it next year when it comes up for renewal, which will be a shame as it has such a memorable number, OK1110000.

Hi Harry, how are you able to maintain the licence and show you have at least one vehicle on it? Do you say, put your van in-scope?

[harry_monk]

Mattwoodtransport:
Hi Harry, how are you able to maintain the licence and show you have at least one vehicle on it? Do you say, put your van in-scope?

As far as I’m aware, I can’t. I’m expecting the TC to write to me soon giving me some time limit to put a vehicle on the licence (I think they allow three months) and that will give me enough time to make a final decision on what to do, but I don’t think that will be running my own truck again so I am expecting the licence to be revoked, although I would surrender it before the deadline in case I did ever apply for another O licence in the future, just so I could answer “no” to the question “Have you ever had a licence revoked?”

[mattwoodtransport]

Harry Monk:

Mattwoodtransport:
Hi Harry, how are you able to maintain the licence and show you have at least one vehicle on it? Do you say, put your van in-scope?

As far as I’m aware, I can’t. I’m expecting the TC to write to me soon giving me some time limit to put a vehicle on the licence (I think they allow three months) and that will give me enough time to make a final decision on what to do, but I don’t think that will be running my own truck again so I am expecting the licence to be revoked, although I would surrender it before the deadline in case I did ever apply for another O licence in the future, just so I could answer “no” to the question “Have you ever had a licence revoked?”

I hadn’t heard of the 3month rule but it would make sense to have it- defo yes to surrendering it, like you say, we don’t want any embarrassing questions on your next application

[weewulliewinkie]

good to see this thread has still got life in it yet, cos theres been plenty of good advice flyin about for any new start wannabe thinking about giving it a go. hard work is the only way to do it and of course a big slice of good luck.