there is no doubt that some drivers are letting the rest of us down mate but at the same time, that is minor compared to what happens in laybys. gas attacks, abductions etc etc etc. even leaving the truck out of the question, that is a driver who is the main victim. that could be any one of us!
going back to your point about other drivers. that kind of behaviour disgusts me. we should be sticking together like the bikers do. the other night i was in a queue behind 2 ARR Craibs wagons. the 2nd driver stayed in his cab while i jumped in the other one to give the guy a hand to tip. needless to say the 2nd driver tipped on his own. i went to chat to the asda driver who pulled up behind me instead
j.gooch:
Mike-C:
j.gooch:
Joined at M3 Junction with M25 - left M25 at Dartford Tunnel !!!Well you’ve certainly highlighted something here. Assuming Clackett Lane is full, a likeley scenario, would you care to name the next rest areas going either way from Clackett Lane services ?
Think you are on the wrong forum - try ‘Where Am I’. But in answer to your question : Thurrock Services (M25) or Maidstone (M20)
The point i am trying to make is that the foreigners you have seen, apart from the fact they may have broken down etc. will in all probability be transiting through Dover. If they are heading out along the M25/M40 route they’ll have no where to stop. How many spaces does Maidstone have? Have you ever pulled into Clackett lane and found it full? I have numerous times. Next stop is the new one at Beaconsfield, or then Oxford. And the same reverse ways round. I too have seen a few foreign HGV’s parked on this stretch of the M25, you never see it up the M6 or the M1 though? Parking is apparently that hard to find that you will see plenty of requests on here from British drivers asking ‘where can i stay in [xyz]’, but we can just expect the foreigners to plod along and look?
You see when you come out with a ■■■■ and bull story like this…
The standard of driving demonstrated today by these ‘so called’ professional drivers, beggars belief. I can totally understand after just one day of travelling on our UK roads how angry you British ‘PROFESSIONAL’ drivers must feel. It is about time our Government, Police and VOSA looked at the professional conduct of our own hauliers, and realised it is way above anything that the Eastern Europeans can offer. Just another one to add to my rant for the day - a driver from Czech Republic overtook us on the M25 and he was enjoying himself watching a film on his laptop…says it all doesn’t it.
Its hard to take you seriously. I’ve no doubt there are loads of bad foreign drivers. But still the lions share here in the UK will be our own. I personally do not like lots of foreign HGV’s being here, my reasons are simple…it means they are bringing in goods that we could be producing /creating ourselves and hauling ourselves. That may be a pretty simplistic and idealistic view as well as probably not politically correct. But i don’t kid myself or try to kid others by saying they are bad drivers and they get preferential treatment from the law. As it is now, VOSA and the police are cracking down big time on them for any misdemeanours. They have all the same problems, even more than what we have as drivers. But you’re not a driver, you’re a Director? In my experience no directors worry about rest facilities or driving standards, they worry about turning a profit. Nothing wrong with that, horses for courses as they say. I’ll guess your haulage buisness is struggling? Would you like a list of the Eastern European ones who are actually growing through buisness acumen and research and investment and not driving along looking at who is sat on the hard shoulder or in laybys , or watching videos etc…? You might learn something from them !!! 
scanny77:
there is no doubt that some drivers are letting the rest of us down mate but at the same time, that is minor compared to what happens in laybys. gas attacks, abductions etc etc etc. even leaving the truck out of the question, that is a driver who is the main victim. that could be any one of us!
going back to your point about other drivers. that kind of behaviour disgusts me. we should be sticking together like the bikers do. the other night i was in a queue behind 2 ARR Craibs wagons. the 2nd driver stayed in his cab while i jumped in the other one to give the guy a hand to tip. needless to say the 2nd driver tipped on his own. i went to chat to the asda driver who pulled up behind me instead
Yeah and a biker got shot and killed on the M40 by a gang of other bikers !!! If we should stick together like they do you can shove it !!
j.gooch:
welshboyinspain:
sorry you didn’t say you were driving past one but you must have been driving to see th CZ watching a film on his laptop but you still don’t explain how you know how long they were parked for or is it just bash a foreigner post?
if your husband is owner operater and you are MD of haulage company maybe your 2 businesses could start a petition with the RHA
why doesn’t your hubby not work for you? you not that bad a boss are youI actually said that a Czech driver overtook us watching a film, yes we were driving, but it really doesn’t matter whether it was 1 minute or 24 hours on the hard shoulder - unless in an emergency it is still illegal - and before you respond with ‘maybe they had an emergency’ doesn’t explain 30 trucks in such a short radius…
I am a director of 1 haulage company, and another company (nothing to do with haulage). I wouldn’t join the RHA/FTA as they have no backbone in supporting the haulage industry.
My husband works with me… and I am really not a bad boss…good pay and conditions and the perks are brilliant…
Gissa job??
I was coming down the M6 friday evening, having a hell of a time. A truck on “cz” plates comes tanking past me, the driver, watching a DVD on his laptop. So I think ok, going to do the public spirited thing here and phone our friendly boys in blue, the answer I got from the woman in the call centre beggered belief. She literally told me that she wasnt going to bother reporting it as it wasnt an offence, I went mental at her and told her that maybe she’d like to tell that to the family of seven that was killed, funny that, 15 minutes later an unmarked came past me.
As I went past, they was severely questioning the driver of the truck and one of the coppers gave me a thumbs up.
i can’t understand why a truck driver would grass up another truck driver.
what was he watching?
Mike-C:
j.gooch:
Mike-C:
j.gooch:
Joined at M3 Junction with M25 - left M25 at Dartford Tunnel !!!Well you’ve certainly highlighted something here. Assuming Clackett Lane is full, a likeley scenario, would you care to name the next rest areas going either way from Clackett Lane services ?
Think you are on the wrong forum - try ‘Where Am I’. But in answer to your question : Thurrock Services (M25) or Maidstone (M20)
The point i am trying to make is that the foreigners you have seen, apart from the fact they may have broken down etc. will in all probability be transiting through Dover. If they are heading out along the M25/M40 route they’ll have no where to stop. How many spaces does Maidstone have? Have you ever pulled into Clackett lane and found it full? I have numerous times. Next stop is the new one at Beaconsfield, or then Oxford. And the same reverse ways round. I too have seen a few foreign HGV’s parked on this stretch of the M25, you never see it up the M6 or the M1 though? Parking is apparently that hard to find that you will see plenty of requests on here from British drivers asking ‘where can i stay in [xyz]’, but we can just expect the foreigners to plod along and look?
You see when you come out with a ■■■■ and bull story like this…
The standard of driving demonstrated today by these ‘so called’ professional drivers, beggars belief. I can totally understand after just one day of travelling on our UK roads how angry you British ‘PROFESSIONAL’ drivers must feel. It is about time our Government, Police and VOSA looked at the professional conduct of our own hauliers, and realised it is way above anything that the Eastern Europeans can offer. Just another one to add to my rant for the day - a driver from Czech Republic overtook us on the M25 and he was enjoying himself watching a film on his laptop…says it all doesn’t it.
Its hard to take you seriously. I’ve no doubt there are loads of bad foreign drivers. But still the lions share here in the UK will be our own. I personally do not like lots of foreign HGV’s being here, my reasons are simple…it means they are bringing in goods that we could be producing /creating ourselves and hauling ourselves. That may be a pretty simplistic and idealistic view as well as probably not politically correct. But i don’t kid myself or try to kid others by saying they are bad drivers and they get preferential treatment from the law. As it is now, VOSA and the police are cracking down big time on them for any misdemeanours. They have all the same problems, even more than what we have as drivers. But you’re not a driver, you’re a Director? In my experience no directors worry about rest facilities or driving standards, they worry about turning a profit. Nothing wrong with that, horses for courses as they say. I’ll guess your haulage buisness is struggling? Would you like a list of the Eastern European ones who are actually growing through buisness acumen and research and investment and not driving along looking at who is sat on the hard shoulder or in laybys , or watching videos etc…? You might learn something from them !!!
In response to your quote, some of which I agree with. There definitely are not enough MSA’s/parking areas, and the government need to take a long hard look at this problem and get it sorted. Maybe when the MP’s who have taken expenses ‘in error’ pay them back, there will be enough money in the pot to proceed.
My business acumen is just that - my business - fortunately I am not struggling, but that is through sheer had graft, not by sitting back and allowing other companies to walk all over mine. We do not work for peanuts, turn work down that does not pay - it’s too easy to work for nothing.
Your point that I do not worry about issues such as ‘driving standards’ and provision of ‘rest areas’, is incorrect, as it is part of securing your O Licence to ensure that your drivers comply with the law to the letter. So yes, it did annoy me to see blatant disregard on our motorway.
I also notice that you have stated on another quote - you got another infringement for driving 4 hrs 32 mins - oh dear - maybe you should have followed the guidance of your EE colleagues, and parked on the hard shoulder…
I leave for your consideration…
j.gooch:
I leave for your consideration…
What this means is “I must have the last word!” 
Seriously pet, you come across as an irritating woman with a limited knowledge of the industry you profess to be a big player in.
Taking on all comers, you resort to personal attacks on other members who happen to disagree with you and you’ve only got a handful of posts under your belt - most of them on here!!
More flip-flopping than the local swimming baths.
Dazza:
j.gooch:
I leave for your consideration…What this means is “I must have the last word!”
Seriously pet, you come across as an irritating woman with a limited knowledge of the industry you profess to be a big player in.
Taking on all comers, you resort to personal attacks on other members who happen to disagree with you and you’ve only got a handful of posts under your belt - most of them on here!!
More flip-flopping than the local swimming baths.
In response to your quote :
- I do not profess to be a big player
- My knowledge - is what I have taken the time to learn
- I have not made personal attacks on any members - If you care to read through, I think you will find the personal attacks, like yours, have been aimed at me (just because i am a woman).
Do you really think that I should not defend myself?
All this just because I stated a road safety issue? beggars belief…
just a little note to j.gooch.
there is a topic on here that you may find interesting. “Ladies with PMT”.
have a nice day. 
limeyphil:
just a little note to j.gooch.there is a topic on here that you may find interesting. “Ladies with PMT”.
have a nice day.
Hiya - at least you made me giggle - and you have lightened the discussions…
My husband is J Gooch (I am Marina) - he is laughing at the thought of him suffering with ‘PMT’
Take care and you too have a nice day…
See what I mean? The last word.
j.gooch:
I do not profess to be a big player
My firm this, my firm that, Director, MD, blah, blah. Oh I think you do.
j.gooch:
My knowledge - is what I have taken the time to learn
If you have knowledge about the haulage industry, then you would know that far too many of UK service areas are congested. Is this so hard to grasp?
j.gooch:
I have not made personal attacks on any members - If you care to read through
You said to Mike C - a Moderator - Think you are on the wrong forum - try 'Where Am I’. You told Breaker One Nine that he wouldn’t understand the big words you were using, you implied Coffeeholic (another moderator) didn’t know the rules of the road or hadn’t read The Highway Code. Okay, maybe not personal attacks, but a bit condescending seeing as you’re a newbie.
j.gooch:
I think you will find the personal attacks, like yours, have been aimed at me (just because i am a woman).
Playing Joan of Arc will do you no favours on here. Read my earlier post on real women in the haulage industry. To imply Trucknet members are sexist just because you are talking bollox is frankly laughable.
j.gooch:
All this just because I stated a road safety issue? beggars belief…
If you ask me, your original post was less about road safety and more a general whinge about foreign drivers.
P.S. You really need to get a grip of the “quote feature”
I really don’t get your comments - you seem to just hand-pick items from my responses in an attempt to stir things up.
At no point have I said I am an MD -as you put it blah! blah! blah!. I said I was a director of two companies - and purely because ‘Breaker One Nine’ told me I knew nothing ‘woman - get back to your sink’. I responded accordingly, as I am sure you would have done in a similar situation.
If you, and some of the other respondees to my original quote feel it necessary to break away from the real issue of ‘road safety’ and promote your attacks against me personally - then carry on - but rest assured I will not run away crying, because the big nasty men seem to think they know it all.
I am sure if you drive in Europe, that you have respect and adhere to each countries restrictions/laws? All I am trying to say, is that the same should be applied when driving in this country.
Marina, you obviously work on the premise “When you’re in a hole, go and get a bigger shovel”.
Just you keep digging girl.
You’re single-handedly setting back any progress made as regards gender equality since the 1970s.
j.gooch:
I really don’t get your comments - you seem to just hand-pick items from my responses in an attempt to stir things up.
It’s called debate.
j.gooch:
If you, and some of the other respondees to my original quote feel it necessary to break away from the real issue of ‘road safety’ and promote your attacks against me personally - then carry on - but rest assured I will not run away crying, because the big nasty men seem to think they know it all.
Sounds like you already are.
As for me being sexist. Come on here more often. You’ll see that I even argue with MEN!!
Just my tuppence worth…
Imagine you are a foreign driver who does not know a great deal about the country you are transitting, a by no means uncommon scenario which ever side of the channel you may be from. Just as we hear stories about the way things are on the Continent, so these drivers will have heard stories about how things are in Britain. One of those stories is likely to be about having to pay to park. Just as stories here miss out vital details or become warped with the passage of time, the information that you only have to pay for overnight parking, not for a 45, may well have got lost in translation. Sure, there are signs up telling you that, but they aren’t a great deal of use if a) you can’t read English and b) even if you can, you daren’t park in an MSA long enough to read the sign because you fear that you may be charged or clamped. At this point a vicious circle arises.
Add to that the information that in many European countries it is perfectly legal and acceptable to park on the hard shoulder, and if I were in the foreign drivers’ shoes, I would see that as a sensible alternative which enables me to take my legal break. Better that than run over by anything up to an hour - which is quite feasible when traffic volumes are high - to reach the next MSA.
It’s an information crisis that causes this to situation arise, not bad driving. As someone who regularly uses the M25 and the routes radial to it, I can also assure you that I have many a time gone into an MSA and found it full, so parked on the shoulder of the exit slip as my only alternative. If the truck park empties whilst I am there, so be it, I’m not reversing through no entry signs up a sliproad to go back in and start my break again. When challenged as to why I have been on the shoulder in these circumstances in the past, the HATOs doing the asking have always been sympathetic to the situation.
Having driven in France, albeit some time ago, I can assure you that anyone used to Continental traffic volumes is going to struggle to plan breaks effectively when faced with the M25 for the first time. Or even the second time. Hell, even someone like me who spends a large proportion of her life around there gets caught out from time to time. I have just submitted a printout from a month ago where I was nearly half an hour over time. I can normally - indeed have, regularly - do the route from the M25, up through New Maldon and into Mitcham in an hour, easily, even at rush hour. Unfortunately, in this instance, it turned out there were major gas works going on at the edge of Wimbledon, completely unreported by anyone. The route is a Red Route and there was nowhere to stop, so I had no choice but to continue in to the customer. Upon arrival at the customer, I discovered that their premises were in fact what is best described as a garage in a housing estate down a one-way street, and so I ran up another 10 minutes shuffling about as cars were moved etc. etc. etc. so I could park up and get tipped. The result? 24 minutes total over time, and that’s someone who knows the area. Imagine how horrible it could have been if the same thing had happened in, say, Madrid?
Sods law being what it was, I ended up a similar amount over time a week later. I left Tilbury with an hour on the card, so decided to at least get to Clackett Lane for my break and try and avoid having to put in a second one later. This was in the middle of the afternoon when the traffic was quiet. As I came out along the A13 the matrix signs were warning of “DELAYS” at the A21/M25 split. Now the smartarses amongst you will say I should have bailed out and stopped either in a layby or at Thurrock at that point, but remember it only said “DELAYS”, not “LONG DELAYS” or even “ACCIDENT”. Normally “DELAYS” means you’ll slow down to maybe 40 or 30, but it’s still basically running. So I figured an hour was ample time to get to the next MSA. I could see the Dartford Bridge from there and it was clear as a bell, so it’s not as if there was any sign of impending doom. There was also nothing on the radio about a crash (I flicked over and caught a local bulletin) so it was reasonable to expect that the sign had in fact not just been cancelled from earlier - by no means an unknown occurence. Long story short, it all ground to a halt at the offending junction, by which time the matrix signs had changed to “LONG DELAYS” (too late for me to change my plan) and I squeezed into Clackett half an hour over. Again, this was someone who has 10 years experience in this country, a lot of it around that area, and still I got caught out. Again, imagine if I’d been in Bratislava when that happened?
Driving in that part of the country is a whole different art form, and presents a whole new set of challenges. Factor in the stuff I started this post with and it is very easy to see how the situation arises where these guys tuck themselves away behind a bridge support (which is where you normally see them) thinking they are doing the right thing. Whilst I would never condone anyone watch telly or reading whilst driving, I would never condemn these guys for doing their best either. Because at the end of the day, that’s surely all any of us can do?
Hi Lucy
How nice to receive a reply with no personal attack. Your quote states the obvious, and yes I can understand it may prove difficult for foreign drivers to understand our laws. But at the same time, it is necessary to try to have at least a basic knowledge of the country you are transitting. My husband has just said, as he frequently transits Belgium, he has noticed that they have put up yellow barriers on the entrance and exit slip roads to MSA’s to prevent illegal parking. He also has frequently been caught out on the infamous Antwerp ring road, which makes the M25 like a Sunday afternoon jaunt. He finds the first available legal parking place does a print out on the digi-tacho, and writes relevant info. on the reverse. Having been stopped by the French ministry on occasions, he has presented these to them, and it has been accepted.
Under no circumstances would he or our drivers, consider parking on the hard shoulder. Having been involved in a situation where he has needed emergency medical attention, had this have been on our UK motorway last Friday, he would not now be here to tell the tale.
I think you can now see why this is such a personal issue with me, nothing to do with having a pop at foreign drivers, had they have been UK drivers parked on the hard shoulder the post would have been exactly the same.
Dazza:
Marina, you obviously work on the premise “When you’re in a hole, go and get a bigger shovel”.Just you keep digging girl.
You’re single-handedly setting back any progress made as regards gender equality since the 1970s.
How?
j.gooch:
I really don’t get your comments - you seem to just hand-pick items from my responses in an attempt to stir things up.It’s called debate. -
I agree a debate is just that - but as for personal attacks - I WILL DEFEND MYSELF where deemed necessary.
j.gooch:
If you, and some of the other respondees to my original quote feel it necessary to break away from the real issue of ‘road safety’ and promote your attacks against me personally - then carry on - but rest assured I will not run away crying, because the big nasty men seem to think they know it all.Sounds like you already are. -
Really?As for me being sexist. Come on here more often. You’ll see that I even argue with MEN!!
I look forward to a future debate with you…I am on most weekends when my husband is using the forum.
That’s why information is the way to solve the problem. Maybe some sort of printed leaflet in a variety of languages to be given to drivers as they enter the country, I don’t know. That would at least make it clear that you DON’T have to pay to take up to two hours’ break in an MSA. I really do think that is 99% of the problem, especially given the differences in the value of £20 in “real” terms as detailed by Drew above. Drivers’ myths are responsible for so many problems of this kind, and the only way to fight them is to correct them.
As an aside, I’ve always found the best way to deal with sexism is to ignore it. 
Lucy:
That’s why information is the way to solve the problem. Maybe some sort of printed leaflet in a variety of languages to be given to drivers as they enter the country, I don’t know. That would at least make it clear that you DON’T have to pay to take up to two hours’ break in an MSA. I really do think that is 99% of the problem, especially given the differences in the value of £20 in “real” terms as detailed by Drew above.
Lucy if they printed a leaflet available in every language in the world it still doesn’t alter the fact they are often full.
Very true. But it would at least mean these guys would dare to go in and find out.