bunsen:
Tamworth1:
Anyone remember this old girl ?
0
she was the one thing we all wanted to drive but never got past sitting behind the steering wheel, we were told it was part of an army order that was cancelled[/quote
I was lucky enough to drive her around the MOTEC complex 13 speed fuller iirc but could be wrong
I would have given my eye teeth to have been given a start to my career on a Motec course but sadly I was too old when they were introduced. The courses were invaluable to scores of youngsters who wanted a decent grounding in transport. What most hauliers objected to was the method of collecting the funding for the scheme. If the government of the day had just raised income tax by a penny, no-one would have noticed, more youngsters would have attended the courses and chaps from Milnthorpe would have been saved high blood pressure!
Retired Old ■■■■:
I would have given my eye teeth to have been given a start to my career on a Motec course but sadly I was too old when they were introduced. The courses were invaluable to scores of youngsters who wanted a decent grounding in transport. What most hauliers objected to was the method of collecting the funding for the scheme. If the government of the day had just raised income tax by a penny, no-one would have noticed, more youngsters would have attended the courses and chaps from Milnthorpe would have been saved high blood pressure!
Well spoken my man 
at least the ■■■■■■■ at the RTITB had to “beat” their levy cheque out of me usually twelve months after it was due, Great fun at the time 
Bewick.
Recovery training vehicles outside MOTEC Livingston workshops, great training on good equipment many thanks Dennis !!!
After all the money you must have earned due to the wonderful training you received, Tamworth1, don’t you think it would be a decent gesture to repay Bewick some of his investment? I’m sure his multi-million pound pension fund could do with a bit of a top-up!
Retired Old ■■■■:
After all the money you must have earned due to the wonderful training you received, Tamworth1, don’t you think it would be a decent gesture to repay Bewick some of his investment? I’m sure his multi-million pound pension fund could do with a bit of a top-up!
Mr ■■■■ I bet Dennis has more money than me and you put together so no need to top up that pension fund and Dennis was a haulier through the golden age when he would of made a fortune !
We seem to be going round and round in circles and getting nowhere, but I think I can put a few facts into the equation that may put a few extra thoughts into peoples minds.
First of all I would like to state my possitions that might be said influence my biasness.
When the RTBI was formed I was running a haulage business with over 100 employees and as you can imagine the levy of 1.5% of total emolument was a lot of money that I orriginally ignored and when I had to sign a cheque to pay horrified me. Our workforse dramaticly increased during the time of the RTITB levy.
I attended a training course at MOTEC High Ercal and several traing courses arranged by RTITB from subjects of Accountancy for the non accountant to public speaking. All the courses were very professional and well delivered with a much higher standard than many universities achieve.However on the other side, none of these courses would I have attended had it not been that I made money by doing so, and achieving standards set down by RTITB. Did my business benefit, apart from financially by me attending? Perhaps not, however life is a continual learning process and there are times I have remembered what I learnt and applied it.
3 I was a Director of a Driver Training School that was orriginally set up ny RTITB and received much of its income from receiving grants which in turn allowed them to pay me Directors Fees and other perks.
Dealing with the first, first. From being born I was educated to become a business man. Anyone who knew my Grandfather would understand, and realise I had one of the best tutors. My father taught me a little bit of compassion but I assisted him manipulating situations in business life to his advantage.
From this I learnt if you can’t beat them, join them. Perhaps it was disgraceful what the Labour Government imposed on the haulage industry, but they did. The law is the law. I was just talking to my son today, when he was complaining that he couldn’t use his mobile whilst he was driving because of the stupid law, particularly as he had been fined and his licence endorsed for doing so. I know he could drive safely whilst using his phone, but he had to obide by the law. Ao we had to pay the levy. Or, whicch we did, adjust our ways and avoid it and make money from grants. No government ever brings anything into law that you can’t manipulate to your advantage if you choose.
Secondly the MOTECS. All training whatever was introduced into the transport Industry stemmed from the MOTECs. All HGV Driving testers and Instructors had to be trained and passed at the MOTECs. All HGV Test Station staff had to be trained by and examined by staff at the MOTECs. To give credit to whoever was responsible, forgetting how they were funded (And a lot more came from general taxation that from RTITB levy) someone, somehow did a wonderful job to get them up and running as smoothly like they did. Darlimgton was amongst the first Test Sations opened and I was there with one of our vehicles in the first week of operation. Although I am sure there were hauliers in their day that were horrofied at getting their vehicles tested, but looking back now Plating and Testing was a must. I heard many complaints over the years of badly maintained vehicles been refused a test certificate but never heard one complaint of vehicles having to be laid up because the Test Stations were not fully operational or able to handle the work. I think it only right to praise MOTECs for handling the training. Look at the mess of Accident and Emergencies and the National Health Service in general and reaise what a mess there could have been.
Like everything Haulage has changed over the years, and the biggest changes happened in the days the RTITB and Motecs were set up.
One question I would like to answer was if something hadn’t happened where would all the HGV drivers have come from. Where would the new entries into Transport Management have learnt to pass their Certificate of Competence?
I remember the early days when some operators were running wagons up and down the road with HGV learner plates on. My father gave the instruction out that non of our vehicles ran with L plates. His opinion we were professional hauliers and our customers paid for that , not trainees. I remember when our first driver went for his HGV test. It was a chap called Ray Hornby and he was in his forties. Been driving HGVs and PSVs since he was 21 . During the qualifying period for grandfather rights he was driving PSVs. Off he went to take his test at Darlington. He was a good experienced driver and he failed. We couldn’t beleive it, but he had got into bad habbits which we all do. Every driver we sent fro then on was professionally trained. We didn’t have the time and incliation to do it ourselves, so we used a RTITB school as did most others.
Finally the levy. We were hauliers and were biased but were ther then Government being unreal to expect the haulage industry to pay a share of the costs. Note I said a share as the levy did not fund all the costs with quite a lot being paid ny central govenment., Their viw was the cost of training should be fair, being spread throughout the industry. Their thoiughts were that it was unfair if the larger operators were carrying out staff training it would be wrong if smaller oerators could poach staff with a bit higher wage, which perhaps they couldn’t pay if they had to train. Its a bit like the high street and internet today. People see things in high street stores and examine them and choose what wuits them and then buy from the likes of Amazon on the internet. Without the High Street they couldn’t view, and companies on the internet havent got the oveheads of sales staff and premises costs. We had a case as an example. We had a driver on a training course with us, we paid his training and his wages whilst training, for the day he came back with his licence to hand in his notice and join one of our customers abs a class one driver. We immediatly contacted our customer and told them that the trust had disapeared between us and we no longer wished to do any more work for them. Own account operators were not levied.
Look at things with open eyes, and perhaps the govenment had a point that the Road Haulage Industry should not be suported by all taxpayers with regard to their training, because one way or another training was required as a result of changes in requirement in the road haulage industry, and was it right that some not so professional hauliers could poach traied staff from those who had paid for the training.
Carl Williams very interesting NOT now isn’t it time all the WLM ■■■■■■ off and started your own thread so people with mental depression can become more depressed ! You boys sure know how to spoil a thread !!
Yet another memory flashback.After some of us had got our certificate for HGV inspections Richard Read must have gained from it.Here one example. A german gentleman who was in the timber business from nearby Coleford brought his six wheeler Leyland in for pre-mot inspection.I got the job.The same chap had teased me and a fellow fitter a few weeks previous with a ten bob note if we worked through our tea break.Well we did and he drove away keeping his money in his pocket 
Its so surprising how little wear that I would notice on EVERY shackle pin!!! Must have earned Richard a bit on the repair bill 
Hint;Dont cross a forester 
Took you a while to find that one, spud.
I met up with another ol Richard Read ,s workmate at the Forest Vintage Show yesterday. He said that the fuel injection course at High Ercall has served him well over the years.He is into to American trucks with two stroke engines I think.Good show. But ROF only foresters allowed in.
Wot, not even naturalised Foresters?
And what about the ones who have fled hundreds of miles to escape from previous wives?
Sorry mate,I dont make the rules 
I was with the chap who has been in touch with you via pm,s.I also asked Richard Read for my job back,he said start tomorrow!!!
leylandlover:
Sorry mate,I dont make the rules
He must have forgotten you!
It certainly was and good grub too.
Saviem:
Evening all, as I said before, an emotive subject!ROF neatly summed up the reality…good for the troops…not so good for the operator…Unless he took time to study the actual labarynthine system, as ever, the devil was, and is in the detail. But you had to work at it, and argue your case, and beat the auditors on their own ground regarding the levy charged! Not at all easy if you were running a sound Hire and Reward operation, and that was the cause of so much resentment about the various schemes.
I would surmise that Carl was in a rather more fortunate position than many who were active in the actual hands on day to day operation of a Hire and Reward business. That word, “emolument”, so neatly summed up the basic flaw in the system…too complex, too expensive, and too removed from the reality of the industry.
The return on investment in hire and reward operation was falling at the time the RTITB was created, as a direct consequence of the revisions to the governing legislation, and move to Operator Licencing, introduced by Barbara Castle. In reality the whole sector, now totally liberalised was in decline, with new operators springing into being overnight. Yet no appreciable increase in potential traffic volumes, so simple maths tell the observer that rates would fall, and as a consequence business viability would suffer.
So what does Government do? Analyses, and forecasts potential industry growth, while ignoring the reality of too many chasing too little…but sees the need to train more potential recruits!( and quite rightly tries to put high standards into a low return industry). The quality of the courses, (as I said previously), cannot be faulted, nor can their outcome in personal esteem, but their overall cost, and the burden imposed by the overly complex scheme of levy on the industry really was a total disgrace…but the worst culprit, and biggest disaster ever to befall the industry was Mrs Castle, and the 64 Transport Act!
A little housekeeping to close, (and my apologies as it is well off thread), Bassman, that must have been “my” Viewline that you drove, the one that Chris, (Gardner 240), kindly posted photograps of in her various lives! WAN 183 G , Rolls 220, ZF AK 680 6 speed Kirkstall BDR, 9ft 6in wb. PAS, When I owned her she had the complete RTITB Log book with her, every journey, every drop of fuel, oil, washer liquid recorded, and of course every mile run! Hope that the current owner still has it, (and Ive still a set of door keys for her)! I bought her when I was in the market for some tractor units, the choice was Scania from my pal Chris Kelly, or Volvo, from my old employer Hartshornes, (parent of Junction 10). But I wanted the Viewline, so Hartshornes sold 6 FL10s, and I paid a fair price for" Wang". She then went to my friend Tony Summerfield at Supreme Bodies in Wolverhampton, where a ballast body to Pickford spec was built, complete with drawbar, and connections. The intention being to use her with a drawbar Rogers trailer that I had to carry one of my Abbot SPGs to shows. Lovely lorry to drive, and those ZF boxes were so quick, but that screen gave me the collywobbles on a bumpy road!(even with 4tonnes in the box)! The gear lever showed no sign of repair, so I presume that it was changed at some time in the past.
Barry, ROF, TAY384N, yes I have to agree that is a grand paint job, but her “original” paintwork as a tanker, and with exqusite sign writing and lining by my friend Maurice Partridge, was just as good. Interesting lorry, first with United at Leicester, then JCB at Rocester, as part of Mark Bamfords “Titanic Salvage Company”, (any one remember the advertisments in Commercial Motor)? and totally rebuilt, Gardner 180, Brown 6.600. tandem Eaton, Clark Chapman- John Thompson tank. An absolute dream, (and there is no better description) to drive, she epitomises everything that was great about Atkinsons! I sold her to Sam Steers of A1 Waste in Dublin, saw her advertised some years later, wife said go and buy her, I did not, as I wanted a new Tractor, and then Chris posts that photo! Looks to me as if she is in Ulster, and the new owner has spent some money on the body, and that nice paint. Tyres look like the set I put on, same as the front number plate!! Does`nt she look grand! I hope both the owners enjoy those lorries as much as I did and keep them in good fettle!
Sorry to go off thread, but these threads, and shared experiences I find a delight!
Cheerio all…Sante.
Hi saviem, I’m Sam Stears Junior and I remember travelling to Holyhead to collect TAY384N from you in I think 1994 on the old B&I with my late grandfather who started my fathers obsession with Atkinsons when he drove one back in the 60s. He drove a 8 wheeler defender for a company called the national board and waste paper mills who were based in Granagh in Co.Waterford. My father kept it for a few years and really enjoyed it but unfortunately didn’t have time to bring it to shows etc. so rather than let it gather dust he sold it on. It was a fabulous looking lorry and looks just as good now in the new colours. Great to still see that it’s still on the go and still turning heads and giving people something to talk about thanks for the memories.
Sam Stears
I attended the show at Speech House yesterday and spoke with Richard Read junior,I asked him did your dad ever moan about Motec costs.He said that dad did not 
He said they have to pay into another sort of scheme.Off topic a little,what a great show.
