More Taxes on drivers

Below is from this news link.

news.uk.msn.com/uk/george-osborn … -or-taxes/

All eyes will be on chancellor of the exchequer George Osborne on Wednesday to see if the proposed fuel duty hike of 3p per litre will be ditched in his autumn statement.

The AA has argued that to help the economy and car-dependent drivers he should abandon the increase.

But there is a bigger issue for drivers that the Treasury is working on behind closed doors.

The government is worried about a fall in tax, as a result of motorists heeding its advice by gradually switching to greener, more fuel-efficient vehicles.

It might be good for the environment. But it is not good for the government’s finances, which rely on drivers to prop up the Treasury with motoring taxes of some £46bn each year — of which only about a quarter is spent on roads.

The Office for Budget Responsibility, which advises the chancellor, has warned that the trend towards more fuel-efficient cars could lead to the government’s tax take from fuel duty being £100m less in 2011-12, rising to a shortfall of £600m by 2016-17.

This is due to more fuel-efficient cars entering the market and drivers cutting out journeys due to the high cost of fuel.

So what does the government do?

Privatising our roads

Last week, ministers published a complicated report looking at long-overdue road improvements needed on the A14 near Cambridge.

It’s an important strategic road that links the port of Felixstowe with the rest of the country. But the government basically concluded they can’t afford the improvements out of the public ■■■■■.

Instead, the report looks at tolls of between £1-£2 and then £2-£4. With these tolls there would be a high risk of many drivers trying to divert to other roads. So the report advocates downgrading the old A14 to stop this.

There could be two new road links for local traffic, but that won’t help motorists passing through the area.

The government is also considering changing how our roads are run, paid for, and possibly owned.

“Whichever way it goes, drivers would be paying more.”

The front runner seems to be a “regulated utility model” whereby a private company would run the motorways and main roads on a long-term licence.

The company would be funded by a charge on drivers to use the most important roads.

For example, there might be an access charge of £150 a year to use motorways or trunk roads. There might be a slight cut in vehicle excise duty or a graduated charge depending on the car you drive.

Whichever way it goes, the government would look to raise more than £1bn extra from this charge. Drivers would be paying more.

A poll tax on wheels

But you then have to question why, if you have paid this access charge, should you shell out more to use the A14 or Severn Crossing via tolls? An access charge, like a season ticket, does nothing to reduce demand.

Drivers don’t like paying more taxes, but do we really want to privatise our main roads and depend on tolls and access charges?

The simplest, fairest and easiest-to-enforce measure would be to gradually introduce a ring-fenced road excise duty to top up fuel duty paid at the pumps.

As cars gradually become more fuel-efficient, the duty is increased — but can only be spent on road maintenance and improvements.

This would be better than losing control of our road network and forking out ever-increasing tolls and charges.

The government needs to go back to the drawing board or they could end up with a poll tax on wheels.

Edmund King is AA president and visiting professor of transport at Newcastle University

Very interesting.
Personally I’m not against toll roads, if managed properly they work well. Access charges I’m not so sure about, as it would be one price for all and that’s not fair on light users. However it would solve the foreign trucks pay nothing issue.

I can’t say I’ve ever agreed with the toll roads idea on ordinary roads, because back roads will then get overused by everyone trying to avoid the tolls.

On the other hand, I’m totally in favour of a “port of entry charge” to be levied on foreigners who insist upon driving their no tax disk/doubtful insurance
old bangers over here without other recourse from this country’s officialdom.
Easy to adminstrate (uses existing customs infrastructure to collect)
and easy to enforce (it’s not easy to bring a wagon into the country whilst avoiding the docks!) :smiling_imp:

The British traveller abroad will often find themselves buying Visas for entry in some places, so why not effectively charge incoming drivers? :bulb:
Let’s face it, we don’t want them on our roads anyway, because it reduces British driver’s jobs running it around internally not to mention the safety aspect of some half-asleep & maybe even half-cut ‘no-speke-English’ Drivula weaving around the roads, threatening imminent death and destruction?! :open_mouth:

Phunnisaurus:
“Drivula” - He ■■■■■, He’s from Transylvania, and he has a good chance of putting you in an early grave unless you “stake his job” first! :grimacing:

Drivula.jpg

Winseer:
I can’t say I’ve ever agreed with the toll roads idea on ordinary roads, because back roads will then get overused by everyone trying to avoid the tolls.

On the other hand, I’m totally in favour of a “port of entry charge” to be levied on foreigners who insist upon driving their no tax disk/doubtful insurance
old bangers over here without other recourse from this country’s officialdom.
Easy to adminstrate (uses existing customs infrastructure to collect)
and easy to enforce (it’s not easy to bring a wagon into the country whilst avoiding the docks!) :smiling_imp:

The British traveller abroad will often find themselves buying Visas for entry in some places, so why not effectively charge incoming drivers? :bulb:
Let’s face it, we don’t want them on our roads anyway, because it reduces British driver’s jobs running it around internally not to mention the safety aspect of some half-asleep & maybe even half-cut ‘no-speke-English’ Drivula weaving around the roads, threatening imminent death and destruction?! :open_mouth:

Phunnisaurus:
“Drivula” - He ■■■■■, He’s from Transylvania, and he has a good chance of putting you in an early grave unless you “stake his job” first! :grimacing:

0

Hmmm ! Anti foreigner are we. Lol

that is no suprise at all…

it started with lpg costing 25p now its 70p +
then hybrids , etc etc,

so no matter how green we are its going to cost us all.

same as our green energy at home job, we are paying extra to go greener,

i would like them to reopen all the coal mines again and use them to supply the power stations,
at least it will reduce the cost of elecy.

my carbon footprint is 3.5 million tons per year and i dont give a toss.

Osborne isn’t bright enough to realise that the tax take is dependent on how much money is being earn’t in wages to pay it.Regardless of how it’s charged.

The reality is that the highest earners are paying zb all as a proportion of their incomes while the lowest earners aren’t earning enough to afford the amounts of tax needed.So if he takes it off fuel and puts it all on road tolls,which then obviously means the equivalent that we’re paying now in road fuel taxes + profit for the new private road operators,it won’t make any difference because people aren’t changing to mickey mouse cars to be green they are changing because they can’t afford the fuel for something better.

If they can’t afford the extra fuel then they also can’t afford the extra money needed if it’s charged on road use instead of fuel let alone the extra needed to pay the privatised road operator’s profit margin on top.No surprise that the next policy will be one of closing down ‘alternative’ routes in order to force people into using his overpriced,privatised (stolen from the public who’s money built it) profit motivated,road network.Which will just mean loads of parked up vehicles because their owners aren’t earning enough to pay the rip off charges being imposed to use them.In which case the idiot will get even less in taxation income than he’s getting now. :unamused:

greggy:
that is no suprise at all…

it started with lpg costing 25p now its 70p +
then hybrids , etc etc,

so no matter how green we are its going to cost us all.

same as our green energy at home job, we are paying extra to go greener,

i would like them to reopen all the coal mines again and use them to supply the power stations,
at least it will reduce the cost of elecy.

my carbon footprint is 3.5 million tons per year and i dont give a toss.

^ This.Use domestically produced coal fired electricity and go back to coal derived gas supplies.All of which means that the Russians will lose out so long as we re nationalise the coal industry so the Russians etc can’t buy out our own coal supplies making us dependent on them whatever we do.

The question is why were/are the British government so keen on making us dependent on imported fuel supplies when we’re self sufficient in coal :question: .

turnip:

Winseer:
I can’t say I’ve ever agreed with the toll roads idea on ordinary roads, because back roads will then get overused by everyone trying to avoid the tolls.

On the other hand, I’m totally in favour of a “port of entry charge” to be levied on foreigners who insist upon driving their no tax disk/doubtful insurance
old bangers over here without other recourse from this country’s officialdom.
Easy to adminstrate (uses existing customs infrastructure to collect)
and easy to enforce (it’s not easy to bring a wagon into the country whilst avoiding the docks!) :smiling_imp:

The British traveller abroad will often find themselves buying Visas for entry in some places, so why not effectively charge incoming drivers? :bulb:
Let’s face it, we don’t want them on our roads anyway, because it reduces British driver’s jobs running it around internally not to mention the safety aspect of some half-asleep & maybe even half-cut ‘no-speke-English’ Drivula weaving around the roads, threatening imminent death and destruction?! :open_mouth:

Phunnisaurus:
“Drivula” - He ■■■■■, He’s from Transylvania, and he has a good chance of putting you in an early grave unless you “stake his job” first! :grimacing:

0

Hmmm ! Anti foreigner are we. Lol

Not at all. I’m not anti Scandinavian, Dutch, German, Greek, Spanish etc. It’s not “far right” to be merely against those that deprive me and mind in some way.
We’ll be arguing over the difference between Nationality, Creed, and Ethnicity next! :unamused:

Economic migrants deprive me. That’s nothing to do with any of the above, so I don’t think there is an actual label for those who object to someone foreign who might well be White, Christian, Born in this country and merely returning, but nonetheless here when they shouldn’t be!

It is supposed to be “popularist” to object to immigration these days, but for the vast majority of us who at least “speak” against immigration, very few actually go further than just that lip service.

The problems of immigration could be solved overnight if we took the same line as countries like Australia where you’ve gotta have a desired trade, house set up, AND job set up to get in.

Immigrants not being able to get free NHS treatment, a Tax code, and any benefits whatsoever, but just the bare bones of protection of person & property under British law would mean only those filling top jobs we’re actually struggling to fill would get to make ‘the cut’.
Our system as it stands drives down working class wages, drains the state, and increases taxation on those who think their immune from the entire effect - eventually.

There’s no way there will be more for us who’ve paid in all their lives until we stop giving it to those who’ve paid little or nothing.
Meanwhile the peddlars of debt will try and tell us that we can still live a normal, solvent life despite having your pay cut, and see the costs of living rise.
Truth is the public should stop paying, and start acting politically to turn it all around.
We should stop voting for the politician we hate the least, and start voting for the party instead. It sickens me to see Tory voters voting Labour “because Tony Blair has toryised the party” instead of Labour having some policies that are actually popular, and get delivered. What was it? “The dropping of clause 4” that did a so much towards the 1997 labour victory?

Let’s have some pro-active rather than re-active politics in this country, instead of “who can lie the best” or “make the hard sale the best” as we’ve done for the past century and beyond…

How many out there right now voted for Cameron “because he’s posh” or Won’t vote Labour “because Milliband is a pillock” or even UKIP because they just don’t like this wierd, reletively “unknown-but-foreign-sounding-name” guy?

Voting for the party instead of the leader encourages the parties to have different policies. More chance of finding some policies you like IF you’ve got a choice of more than one set of them to chose from eh?
What do we get instead? - All three major parties lampooning each other’s policies, so you cannot actually tell the difference between them any more. They’re all equally CRAP! Then there’s the electoral system that prevents the minority party vote percentage being reflected as seats in the commons… 12% of the vote? = ZERO seats for example.

Overall, we can’t blame immigrants from taking advantage of our current daft system, but we CAN blame those who conspired to make it so, and peddle public miseries over so many of us.

Those responsible have been punished before, and no amount of “Never again” by them will prevent more much-deserved punishment from coming again. Next time around though, it will be better targeted instead of against nation, creed & ethnicity all at once like it was last time. :bulb:

Winseer:

turnip:

Winseer:
I can’t say I’ve ever agreed with the toll roads idea on ordinary roads, because back roads will then get overused by everyone trying to avoid the tolls.

On the other hand, I’m totally in favour of a “port of entry charge” to be levied on foreigners who insist upon driving their no tax disk/doubtful insurance
old bangers over here without other recourse from this country’s officialdom.
Easy to adminstrate (uses existing customs infrastructure to collect)
and easy to enforce (it’s not easy to bring a wagon into the country whilst avoiding the docks!) :smiling_imp:

The British traveller abroad will often find themselves buying Visas for entry in some places, so why not effectively charge incoming drivers? :bulb:
Let’s face it, we don’t want them on our roads anyway, because it reduces British driver’s jobs running it around internally not to mention the safety aspect of some half-asleep & maybe even half-cut ‘no-speke-English’ Drivula weaving around the roads, threatening imminent death and destruction?! :open_mouth:

Phunnisaurus:
“Drivula” - He ■■■■■, He’s from Transylvania, and he has a good chance of putting you in an early grave unless you “stake his job” first! :grimacing:

0

Hmmm ! Anti foreigner are we. Lol

Not at all. I’m not anti Scandinavian, Dutch, German, Greek, Spanish etc. It’s not “far right” to be merely against those that deprive me and mind in some way.
We’ll be arguing over the difference between Nationality, Creed, and Ethnicity next! :unamused:

Economic migrants deprive me. That’s nothing to do with any of the above, so I don’t think there is an actual label for those who object to someone foreign who might well be White, Christian, Born in this country and merely returning, but nonetheless here when they shouldn’t be!

It is supposed to be “popularist” to object to immigration these days, but for the vast majority of us who at least “speak” against immigration, very few actually go further than just that lip service.

The problems of immigration could be solved overnight if we took the same line as countries like Australia where you’ve gotta have a desired trade, house set up, AND job set up to get in.

Immigrants not being able to get free NHS treatment, a Tax code, and any benefits whatsoever, but just the bare bones of protection of person & property under British law would mean only those filling top jobs we’re actually struggling to fill would get to make ‘the cut’.
Our system as it stands drives down working class wages, drains the state, and increases taxation on those who think their immune from the entire effect - eventually.

There’s no way there will be more for us who’ve paid in all their lives until we stop giving it to those who’ve paid little or nothing.
Meanwhile the peddlars of debt will try and tell us that we can still live a normal, solvent life despite having your pay cut, and see the costs of living rise.
Truth is the public should stop paying, and start acting politically to turn it all around.
We should stop voting for the politician we hate the least, and start voting for the party instead. It sickens me to see Tory voters voting Labour “because Tony Blair has toryised the party” instead of Labour having some policies that are actually popular, and get delivered. What was it? “The dropping of clause 4” that did a so much towards the 1997 labour victory?

Let’s have some pro-active rather than re-active politics in this country, instead of “who can lie the best” or “make the hard sale the best” as we’ve done for the past century and beyond…

How many out there right now voted for Cameron “because he’s posh” or Won’t vote Labour “because Milliband is a pillock” or even UKIP because they just don’t like this wierd, reletively “unknown-but-foreign-sounding-name” guy?

Voting for the party instead of the leader encourages the parties to have different policies. More chance of finding some policies you like IF you’ve got a choice of more than one set of them to chose from eh?
What do we get instead? - All three major parties lampooning each other’s policies, so you cannot actually tell the difference between them any more. They’re all equally CRAP! Then there’s the electoral system that prevents the minority party vote percentage being reflected as seats in the commons… 12% of the vote? = ZERO seats for example.

Overall, we can’t blame immigrants from taking advantage of our current daft system, but we CAN blame those who conspired to make it so, and peddle public miseries over so many of us.

Those responsible have been punished before, and no amount of “Never again” by them will prevent more much-deserved punishment from coming again. Next time around though, it will be better targeted instead of against nation, creed & ethnicity all at once like it was last time. :bulb:

You’ve got too much time on your hands.

Turnip you have a marvellous economy with words.

I look forward to your next syllable with great expectation.

Lets look at what a driver pays to have a car in this country for 3 years at 10000 miles (estimates )

first you buy the car we will say £10,000

first there vat 20 %

total so far £2500 and you aren’t of the garage

car tax 3 years will say 100 per year for said car that’s 300

2800 so far

servicing per year 300 that’s 900 so that’s 180 vat

2980 so far

insurance tax is say £40 per year that’s £120 for 3 years

3100 so far

the big one 10000 miles per year car, does 45 miles per gallon that’s 222 gallons or 988 .8 litres @ 1.33 per litre £1315 in fuel

64% of 1315 is tax £841 in tax per year

£841 x3 = 2525

5625 in tax so far you paid

now here the fun part in the three years you have had the car

the car as cost you £5625 not to run it, but to give to the government for the privilege of owning it

now there want to tax the roads so lets say the do that now and the most of the time your car is on the road is peak hours and on main roads and there charge you 30p per mile to use the roads it will cost you £3000 per year based on 10000 miles so your tax bill for 3 years will now be £9000 and that’s before you pay road tax an petrol or and don’t forget there will still charge you vat on fuel

What’s depressing is the politician’s will actually persuade the public what a great job they are doing, by waiting until a few months before the election and announcing the scrapping of VED…but won’t mention it’s because it is no longer generating the money it was…and that they are replacing it with a much worse tax.

And the public will fall for it 'cos they’re mostly thick as ■■■■.

the maoster:
Turnip you have a marvellous economy with words.

I look forward to your next syllable with great expectation.

Any relation to Baldrick by any chance?

Baldrick.jpg
Are you quite sure you want to hear the next “turnip syllable”?

Winseer:

the maoster:
Turnip you have a marvellous economy with words.

I look forward to your next syllable with great expectation.

Any relation to Baldrick by any chance?
0
Are you quite sure you want to hear the next “turnip syllable”?

It was your “foreign drivers threatening imminent death & destruction” quote , that made me decide to ask if you were anti foreign !?
It was so ridiculous it made me laugh.
Other than that you make some good points. Enough syllables there ? Or shall I throw in a few more ?

delboytwo:
Lets look at what a driver pays to have a car in this country for 3 years at 10000 miles (estimates )

first you buy the car we will say £10,000

first there vat 20 %

total so far £2500 and you aren’t of the garage

car tax 3 years will say 100 per year for said car that’s 300
i wish! £220 per year
2800 so far

servicing per year 300 that’s 900 so that’s 180 vat
every 4500 miles so at least twice a year
2980 so far

insurance tax is say £40 per year that’s £120 for 3 years

3100 so far

the big one 10000 miles per year car, does 45 miles per gallon that’s 222 gallons or 988 .8 litres @ 1.33 per litre £1315 in fuel
i get around 22 miles per gallon
64% of 1315 is tax £841 in tax per year

£841 x3 = 2525

5625 in tax so far you paid

now here the fun part in the three years you have had the car

the car as cost you £5625 not to run it, but to give to the government for the privilege of owning it

now there want to tax the roads so lets say the do that now and the most of the time your car is on the road is peak hours and on main roads and there charge you 30p per mile to use the roads it will cost you £3000 per year based on 10000 miles so your tax bill for 3 years will now be £9000 and that’s before you pay road tax an petrol or and don’t forget there will still charge you vat on fuel

we are paying per mile in petrol. more miles = more petrol = more tax for the treasury. are they stupid or hoping nobody actually notices this fact?