More paperwork

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS EURO DRIVING FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Been doing a bit of research.
Doing French domestic work (‘cabotage’) requires a CNR carnet :confused:
or ‘Lettre de voiture’ a kind of euro CMR :question:
Whats this?
Has anybody got one?
Where do you get them from?
How much do they cost?

Apparently you get a set of 25 each consisting of four copies.

2

Not preaching to the converted Rob but I posted an answer to Alex in NY.

lettre de voiture (CMR)

which means: contrat de transport international de marchandise par route

and you can find out what it means here:

jus.uio.no/lm/un.cmr.road.ca … 6/doc.html

I used to buy mine in Belgium from a Febetra office in Zeebrugge as the UK cmr isnt really accepted in France, it is very basic and the french turn their noses up at it. :unamused:

I think ours only have the very basic info where the european ones are more detailed.

They all have to be printed in French and another Euro Language, so English is ok or German.

Febetra is the Belgium equivalent of the RHA

3

So if I have CMR insurance here.

With a CMR consignment note entitled. Lettre de voiture internationale.
First box; Sender (name address country) Expediteur (nom, adresse,pays)
etc
With other boxes translated the same roughly 20 boxes, why is that different to a CNR.

CMR has 3 copies
1.Sender
2.Consignee
3.Carrier

The CNR is a carnet required for french domestic work and has four copies :question:

I’m still no wiser I’m afraid. :confused:

There must be some French authority where you can apply for them.

Anybody got more info?

4

I guess that the document is a standard delivery note for domestic operations in France, CMR only applies to international work, not domestic, so a CMR note would not be applicable. On any occasion I have done cabotage work I have been supplied with the delivery documents by the sender and these have not been a CMR and the design and layout varies from country to country. Remember you also need to make sure of your insurance cover because CMR insurance only applies to international work between countries, not to domestic work so unless the work you are doing is part of an international movement you may not be covered.

Also the CMR note has 4 copies:

First copy (for Sender) Red
Second copy (for Consignee) Blue
Third copy (for Carrier) Green
Fourth copy (for file) Black

In my case the red copy goes to the sender, the blue to the consignee, the green to the company I sub to and I keep the black for my records. The colours can be either coloured lines on a white page or each page is the colour with black lines. Not all CMRs use the colours and these days it is possible to get a computer generated one where each page is just laser printed on white paper, these aren’t carbon pages so each page needs to be signed individually.

There are also standard reservation numbers that you can clause the CMR with when you sign and these go in box 14 on the UK CMR and box 18 on others. You can find the full list of reservations here.

I’ve noticed on here that people sometimes say they are unsure what a CMR is or what they look like so here is one.

5

I dont know whether you are on a different subject as your post is about CNR

A Carnet du Passage is a document for the truck and trailer or an ATA carnet for things like tools or exhibition equipment.

Trailers also had a document called a GV60 which certified the trailer could be sealed for customs purposes on TIR. Also called a carnet. or tryptychs to allow a vehicle a temporary import to a country to deliver goods

6

cheers neil
i have saved the copy of the cmr and printed it out and added it to my books for future reference :laughing:
jon

7

Jon you can find a pdf file copy of the CMR here, might be clearer printing that than from the .jpg I put on the last post.

8

Coffeeholic:
Jon you can find a pdf file copy of the CMR here, might be clearer printing that than from the .jpg I put on the last post.

sorted :laughing: :laughing:
jon

9

oops I forget the CMR was different colours too :blush:

I think as I understand the info so far :confused:

The CMR (Lettre De Voiture International) is for International carriage.

The CNR ‘carnet’ (Lettre De Voiture) is for French domestic work and something different. No doubt you will have to pay for it.

You get 25 per set each of four copies.

Just need to know which organisation in france you need to go to for it :question:

Trust the french :angry:

Just a little over cautious with paperwork. I remember when you needed a ‘carnet de passage’ just for the trailer.

Many drivers had to cough up a few hundred francs because of dodgy or incomplete paperwork.

I’m sure it would be a few hundred euros if you were doing domestic work in France without the right documentation :frowning:

10

I would think the shipper would provide you with the delivery notes in France, I don’t think I’ve ever done cabotage in France but I have in Germany, Belgium and Holland and every time they supplied me with the documents I needed.

11

Only a haulier can apply for the CNR ‘carnet’ so shippers and forwarders are not able to obtain them, I think :question: :confused:

12

i only ever used delivery notes when doing internal work in france, was i just lucky ?

13

This is it! I think :confused:
http://www.pmoioui.com/reglementation/lvi/lvi01.html

The translation -ish

  1. To register (in the measurement of your information) which ordered transport. It can be a commission agent (shipper) the shipper or the recipient.
  2. Co-ordinates of the conveyor (this information is often pre printed)
  3. Registration of the vehicles and distance. This last information is generally unknown for you because it results from calculations of CNR. To avoid an additional document “the order of mission” fill this box. Hour and place of beginning of mission, summary Route possible Catch of order. see order of mission
  4. To make register the delivery date requested. With defect it is the mode of the standard contract which will apply.
  5. To describe with precision the goods dealt with.
  6. This LV can be used as invoice
  7. Co-ordinates of the shipper
  8. To register the date and the hour of arrival over the place of loading and the time of departure of the place of loading. That makes it possible to the conveyor to be able to invoice waiting and thus this fact of having financial means to pay this waiting with the driver. Let us guarantee that the next time you will wait less longer. Information of the disc will come to confirm these data. Even thing at the recipient
  9. Coordinated of the Vérifier recipient that it is coherent: postal code department city
  10. After a long road what could be more unpleasant than to see itself showing the transpallet to discharge!!! Then let us react intelligently and use the resources of the Law.
    1°) To ask your employer to give you the order to empty the truck (it is him only which gives orders)
    2°) To mention on the LV what you really did.
    3°) That will make it possible to your employer to invoice the service

Here the text of article 27 of the law of the 01/02/95 known as law of modernization

Art. 27. - Any service annexes not envisaged with the contract of road carriage of goods which causes a damage engages the responsibility for the profit company of the service.

  1. Management of the supports of loads. Attention a pallet is invoiced in the 100 Francs…
  2. Reserves To be valid they must be: Precise, justified, written…et expressement accepted by the shipper when they are formulated by the driver. I advise with the driver to refute them, as far as possible, or to limit the importance of it. But in all the cases to inform the employer. These boxes can also be used for to stipulate a declaration of value or observations particular.
    1. Signature and name of the driver to the loading and the delivery
    1. Article 26 of the Law of the 01/02/95 The document laid down with the first subparagraph is taken until contrary proof of the methods of execution of the contract. It must be signed by giving or its representative on the place of loading and by the recipient or his representative on the place of unloading. The refusal not justified of signature engages the responsibility for the people designated with the subparagraph precede. That the recipient or the shipper is content or not the information registered by the driver, they must sign the LV.
  5. This domument can be useful is of or National International Consignment Note Freight bill (CMR)

If the LVI is badly filled: there can be IMMOBILIZATION of the vehicle and the goods
Law of the LAW N° 98-69 “GAYSSOT”
Article L.9-2. - The absence aboard vehicle of the document envisaged by article 26 of the law n° 95-96 of the 1er February 1995 concerning the abusive clauses and the presentation of the contracts and governing various activities of an economic and commercial nature or, for transport which is not subjected to the provisions of this article, the freight bill laid down in the convention of Geneva of May 19, 1956 relating to the contract of carriage international of goods by roads, duly filled and signed by giving or its representative involves the immediate immobilization of the vehicle or the road unit, and its loading, envisaged with the article L. 25 in the following cases:
"- is the going beyond of more than 20 km/h the maximum speed authorized on the ways open to public circulation or the maximum speed authorized by construction for its vehicle;
"- is the going beyond of more than 20 % of the maximum duration of control day labourer:
“- is the reduction with less than six hours of the duration of daily rest period.”

Law of the 01/02/95 known as law of modernizationChapter II Provisions relating to the operations of road transport

Art 24. - Any operation of road transport of goods for hire or reward is remunerated on the basis:- services actually achieved by the conveyor and his employees; - durations during which the vehicle and its crew are provision for the loading and of unloading has; - duration necessary for the realization of transport under the conditions compatible with the observance of the regulations of safety, such that they result in particular from the second subparagraph of article 9 of the law n° 82-1153 of December 30 1982 of orientation of the inland transports. A decree as a Council of State specifies the particular methods of application of this article when an operation of transport implies several successive operations of loading or unloading.

Art. 25. - For the fulfilment of a contract of road carriage of goods for hire or reward, the contracting one of the haulage company which carries out the service is held, before the presentation of the vehicle to the loading, to transmit to this one, in writing or by any other process allowing memorizing. Information necessary to the execution of the contract, the list of the agreed additional services like its acceptance of the various durations planned for the realization of the contract and the conditions of remuneration of the various operations. The services annex are the services other than the control of the vehicle, the preparation of this one with the operations of loading and unloading and the implementation of the specialized materials attached to the vehicle,

Art. 26. - the execution of the services envisaged with the contract gives place to the establishment by the conveyor of a document which is filled out progressively with the operation of transport. This document, which is preserve in the vehicle, mentions the dates and hours of arrival and starting of the vehicle or the road unit, as well instead of loading as instead of unloading as well as the laid down additional services carried out by its crew. The going beyond of the durations of realization of the operations of loading and unloading per report/ratio ~ those which had been accepted by the contracting one opens right has a complement of remuneration when this going beyond is not ascribable with the fact of the conveyor. It is the same for any service annexes not envisaged with the contract of carriage. The document laid down with the first subparagraph is taken until contrary proof of the methods of execution of the contract. It must be signed by giving or its representative on the place of loading and by the recipient or his representative on the place of unloading. The refusal not justified of signature engages the responsibility for the people designated with the subparagraph precede.

Art. 27. - Any service annexes not envisaged with the contract of road carriage of goods which causes a damage engages the responsibility for the profit company of the service.

Art. 28. - the provisions of this chapter are of law and order.