Mobile Worker - Van/Car Regulations: Clarification Req'

Ok, total hours worked per week are 78 and drive both car and a selection of vans, the rules make sense, just want clarification.
Duities: Driving from site to site and inspecting sites, usually walking round sites, setting alarms etc.

By my understanding, the duties fall into the other work categegory also Van Diver regs, meaning some of the shifts are over the 11 hour limit…?

If you are under van driving rules you are probably in the wrong, but I don`t think you are under van rules.
"If you’re in any of the following professions, you only have to keep to the 10-hour daily driving rule:

Doctor, dentists, nurse, midwife, vet, inspection, maintenance, repair, installation, fitting, commercial travellers, cinema or radio broadcasting, if you work for the AA or RAC or if you have to drive off-road for agricultural, forestry, quarrying or civil engineering purposes."
(My emphasis)

If you aren’t delivering goods etc? You look to be OK if under 10hrs driving per day.

That rule should be on a site somewhere too, here 'tis
Drivers’ hours and tachographs: goods vehicles - 2. Great Britain domestic rules on drivers' hours - Guidance - GOV.UK

So 18 hours over the 60 hour maximum allowed by WTD :roll_eyes:

It’s category B licence driving, so it is all classed as “other work” when compared to EU hours driving. If you’re over the 11 hours duty limit, it’s illegal under GB domestic rules, unless the driving is less than 4 hours of your shift, and as you’re 30% over the 60 hours WTD maximum, that’s also illegal, just for clarification :wink:

But, I guess all this is easily covered up by fudging the logbook anyway :man_shrugging:

No my gawd, never occurred as recently started and clarification required. Expressed concern regarding this and what’s right and wrong and was not well received. Response, I’m not worried I’ll do it anyway even though the fines are in the thousands. Thanks for the clarification, thought was right don’t know what to do know though, might have to find another job and let the company break regs.

Yeah, clearly not a long-term gig. I don’t even dare ask how much the hourly rate is :joy:

The majority of the shift is other work then driving from site to site, by my understanding this is other work right and is included in your total. Right or wrong?

Looks to me like he is exempt from UK Domestic regs, as the van driving is in connection with inspection/maintenance. No duty limit just 10hr drive per day limit.
And exempt from WTD as it is security work.
"## Exceptions
You may have to work more than 48 hours a week on average if you work in a job:

Or have I got that wrong?

The law is very clear: you cannot work more than 48hrs a week
…unless your job needs it.

Kind of muddys the water. I do work in security though but driving and other work still counts towards daily limit or does it, if your doing both 10 hours limit ?

I realise sounds retarded just want proper clarification so as have firm grasp of regs when discussing with employer

There are the regs, and there are the exceptions.

Regards van driving and UK Domestic rules:
"Drivers of certain vehicles are exempt from the duty but not the driving limit, namely – goods vehicles, including dual purpose vehicles, not exceeding a maximum permitted gross weight of 3.5 tonnes, when used:

  • for any service of inspection, cleaning, maintenance, repair, installation or fitting…

    Since you are doing inspection and resetting alarms??
    So long as you don`t drive more than 10hrs a day? Not under Domestic regs.

As above Secuirty (is that walking around sites and setting alarms?) are exempt from 48hr average weeks.

I could be wrong but that is how it looks to me.

And checking up on all of this, not taking anyone’s word is very sensible.

This is getting unnecessarily repetitive

You need to be aware of WTD regs and GB domestic driving - one does not cancel out the other

If you’re driving a category B vehicle (car or van), simply driving and inspecting sites is all “work”, there’s no “other work”, that’s a term used in relation to EU drivers hours, so forget that term.

You’d be able to opt out of the 48 average WTD limit
Re GB rules, if you’re driving for less than 4 hours of day there’s no daily duty limit (which would otherwise be 11 hours).

You’re not working for Government or LA, therefore this job (we’re assuming it is a security job for a private company) is not exempt from the 60 hours WTD max. If you’re expected to work more than 60 hours, all the clarification you need is that this company are operating illegally.

Sounds like a pretty garbage gig TBH

Patience Zac, crap gig or no checking out details here. Don’t want them weaselling out of this and then playing the blame game. You get all the details right, then you present the facts….then you decide how you want to progress. Consider this, this is my time they’ve wasted and have me driving round illegally, surely that’s worth something

Under the law (The Working Time Regulations 1998), some jobs can have different arrangements for working hours and rest in some circumstances. This is because of the type of work they do.

The employees and workers this applies to are:

  • those in jobs that need ‘continuity of service or production’ – where they need to keep working for a longer period of time, for example in agriculture, hospitals, the media, passenger transport services, postal services, prisons, public utilities, research and development, residential institutions, and work that cannot be interrupted for technical reasons
  • those in jobs with seasonal rushes, such as tourism and agriculture
  • security guards, caretakers and similar
  • shift workers changing their shift pattern
  • those who have to travel regularly between different workplaces, for example travelling salespeople

When the job needs it, the rules they’re exempt from are:

  • the 48-hour weekly limit
  • length of night work and health assessments
  • rest breaks
  • daily rest
  • weekly rest

If people in these types of jobs have to work through their normal rest, they must still get ‘compensatory rest’. This means they must get the same amount of rest at another time.

Employers must still protect the health, safety and wellbeing of people doing this type of work.

As a security worker you are exempt from just about everything.

It would seem that you might get all the accrued rest at another time though? Fancy a 4 or 5 months holidays per year? But that wouldn`t necessarily all be paid, so how much will you be earning to give you beer money for the necessary days off?

ACAS have a helpline number at the foot of the link. 0300 123 1100.

Have covered WTR and the company did not give me the opportunity to opt in or out or to because working night receive a medical. I’m keen to work this out and to summarise for reference anyone in a similar situation.

In retrospect, if I’d known the hours I would not have taken the job as the hours are insane. To clarify

Ok, so a number of shifts are illegal also and proper rest breaks days off are not given…right? Or am I complaining for no reason

As I read it, and I could be wrong, they are not illegal shifts.

You are not under GB Domestic Driving rules, as I see it, so they do not apply.
As a Security worker, you are exempt from WTD weekly 48hr limit, rest, and break rules.
I’ve put the links in above to the .gov sites so you can check whether or not they do/don’t apply for yourself.

I read it that the security industry can legally ask you to work many more hours than other industries can.

If I were you, I would be talking to ACAS for better info about your own case.

I think it is a lot of hours to work and I wouldn’t fancy it much, but I don/t see it as illegal…
A crappy set of rules maybe? But that is another question.

ACAS don’t know and waiting for response from Citizens Advice…?

is this for one of those manned alarm companies where you only have to turn out if the alarm goes off and the owner doesn’t answer the phone and give the appropriate pass phrase.

surely your hours and duties were spelt out in the contract before you signed it

Um yes, thats one part of the work - the advertised 48hrs and contract differ from actual hours and Im taking that up with them soon. And to my interpretation or understanding I think the WTD rules apply , if not I’m looking for actual material describing a persons rights, not an easy task it would seem

looks to me like its some sort of 4 on 4 off rota and they have done their utmost to get the absolute max out of the worker with minimum breaks.

if my previous comment is correct be careful that it isn’t some sort of “scam” where you only get paid if answering a job and a fixed amount for being on duty.

Noticed that myself and works out at 48 and a bit hours over 17 weeks.

The above link is fairly comprehensive but dont get confused with security and driving…Drivings driving and regs apply…this should not be a grey area