It’s my firt post here, so hello everybody.
Let me explain my position.
I’m employed by motorway maintenance company as general operative.
I used to work on machines most of the time, but I do generaly eveything, from cherrypickers, through electrics, to groundworks.
Recantly I’ve passed my class 2 licence and done my clamshell bucked and lorry loader tickets to go with it.
Looks like I’ll be spending some time on grabs and hiabs now.
Few quetstions:
If i would work on grab or hiab, I’ll be working much more than driving. I supose we are talking on about 8h work to 2h drive in 10h day.
How do driver hours and brakes apply to this sort of work (where basicaly You are not driving a lot compared to work carried on)
I will not be driving lorry every day. Just example of my week: mon-digger, tue-digger, wed- grab, thu- hiab, fri- digger.
In this case, can I work full weekend say on machine? or do I need my weekly brakes?
very often we’re waiting long time for traffic management to sort our cones out. Can I book this hour on tacho as a POV?
I’m currently working nights. Does my driving day counts from beggining of shift untill end of shift at the morning, or after midnight every night I need to start new tacho day (I mean my digi printouts show for example:for date 22.03.10 - 00.00-3.30 - driving, 20.00-00.00 driving, while first time 00.00-3.30 is from previous shift 21.03.10)
I might have few more q’s, but just forgot them now, as everything seems to be so complicated…
Thanks very much for any help. It’s realy hard to find somebody who knows all this stuff, and our company doesn’ help a lot…
I will not be driving lorry every day. Just example of my week: mon-digger, tue-digger, wed- grab, thu- hiab, fri- digger. …very often we’re waiting long time for traffic management to sort our cones out
Are you on road maintenence work as that is exempt EU driver regs but comes under UK domestic driver regs
Yes. Our company is a road maintenance company, we do some maintenance contracts… but we mostly build new structures (lights, gantries et) raher than maintain old roads, and i think when it is not a maintenance work, it’s under EU rules…
bakkuk:
It’s my firt post here, so hello everybody.
Hello and welcome to Trucknet UK
Let me explain my position.
I’m employed by motorway maintenance company as general operative.
I used to work on machines most of the time, but I do generaly eveything, from cherrypickers, through electrics, to groundworks.
Recantly I’ve passed my class 2 licence and done my clamshell bucked and lorry loader tickets to go with it.
Looks like I’ll be spending some time on grabs and hiabs now.
As far as I can see your work will come inscope of EU regulations.
Few quetstions:
If i would work on grab or hiab, I’ll be working much more than driving. I supose we are talking on about 8h work to 2h drive in 10h day.
How do driver hours and brakes apply to this sort of work (where basicaly You are not driving a lot compared to work carried on
If you drive to EU regulations during the day then you are expected to comply with all break and rest requirements for the 24 hour period from the start of shift.
I will not be driving lorry every day. Just example of my week: mon-digger, tue-digger, wed- grab, thu- hiab, fri- digger.
In this case, can I work full weekend say on machine? or do I need my weekly brakes?
If you drive to EU regulations at anytime during the week you are expected to have a weekly rest period no later than six 24 hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest period.
In weeks when you drive to EU regulations work done on none driving days is regarded as other work and should be recorded on a tachograph chart or printout by simply inserting the date and start/finish times and your name on the chart/printout.
very often we’re waiting long time for traffic management to sort our cones out. Can I book this hour on tacho as a POV?
You mean POA and yes you could use that, to use POA you should know approximately how long you’re likely to be waiting.
I’m currently working nights. Does my driving day counts from beggining of shift untill end of shift at the morning, or after midnight every night I need to start new tacho day (I mean my digi printouts show for example:for date 22.03.10 - 00.00-3.30 - driving, 20.00-00.00 driving, while first time 00.00-3.30 is from previous shift 21.03.10)
your driving day as you call it begins at the start of the shift and ends at the end of the shift.
If you work at any time between 00:00 to 04:00 then you’re a night worker
As a night worker you’re only allowed to do 10 hours working time unless there’s an opt out agreement in place (post back if you need this explained)
I might have few more q’s, but just forgot them now, as everything seems to be so complicated…
The regulations may seem complicated at first but there’s plenty of people here who will help you to understand and stay legal so feel free to ask any questions you need answering, we all had to learn at some time
Thanks very much for any help. It’s realy hard to find somebody who knows all this stuff, and our company doesn’ help a lot…
Nothing unusual there then
THANKS AGAIN
Rather than explaining all the regulations I suggest that you have a read of the [u]Drivers Hours and Tachograph Rules[/u] and post back with anything that you don’t understand or have questions about.
As I’ve already said we all had to learn sometime so don’t worry if you think the questions are basic just ask away there’s nearly always someone here who can help
bakkuk:
Yes. Our company is a road maintenance company, we do some maintenance contracts… but we mostly build new structures (lights, gantries et) raher than maintain old roads, and i think when it is not a maintenance work, it’s under EU rules…
Not sure though
Thanks
Me neither - perhaps a call to your local VOSA office would answer that one
Lets ASSUME it is under EU regs…
I ain’t a regs GURU but I’ll do my best…
I will not be driving lorry every day. Just example of my week: mon-digger, tue-digger, wed- grab, thu- hiab, fri- digger.
In this case, can I work full weekend say on machine? or do I need my weekly brakes?
Few rules when doing two sorts of jobs and one of them comes under EU regs -
A ‘week’ is mon 0000 to sun 2400
You must have a 45 hour unbroken rest in every other week
You must have a 24 hour unbroken rest in every week
In any week where you come under EU regs your work in the other job must be recorded
That other work can be recorded on a digi tacho, seperate printouts or on seperate analogue charts - one for each day worked
Each recorded work day must contain your name, date, start & finish time.
You do not need to record anything if you do not come under EU regs in that week
All this is so that the authorities can check that you have had the correct weekly rest for the EU regs
I’m currently working nights. Does my driving day counts from beggining of shift untill end of shift at the morning
Yes
You are also limited to a max of 10 hours WORK (driving + other work only) in every 24 hour period when on nights unless you have a collective workforce opt out agreement. RT(WTD)R guide
very often we’re waiting long time for traffic management to sort our cones out. Can I book this hour on tacho as a POV?
I know you mean POA and yes you can if told of the time delay and how long it will be before it happens but BREAK works without being given that info
tachograph:
… As I’ve already said we all had to learn sometime so don’t worry if you think the questions are basic just ask away there’s nearly always someone here who can help
That’s absolutely spot-on tachograph…
ROG is here all of the time, …
… so that means there’s nearly always somebody who can help.
Thanks for help. realy apreciate.
Good I’ve done my homework with above links
Just need clarifying 2 things.
EU regs… do they apply straight away from very first hour of driving, or do I need to drive so many hours a week/firtnight ? (Say, I would only use hiab monday, and rest of week on machines… do I still need to have all my weekly brakes and record other work?)
my biggest issue is with daily brakes with working/driving hours. I can’t find clear answer for this one.
Assuming I’ll work on hiab, say… putting gantry sign on. My day would look like this:
7am-7.30am - lorry check (work)
7.30-9.30 - loading sign on lorry (work)
9.30-11.00 - driving to site
11.00-16.00 - putting sigh on gantry (work)
16.00-17.00 - driving back to base.
In this case I would drive 3 hours and work 6 hours.
In this case do I still need my 45min brake 11.30 (even though I’ve only driven 1.5h)■■? Do work class same as driving. I’ve seen something about 6hour instead 4.5 in this case, but just can’t get it cleared.
Same case would be with grab, where I would spend more time working than driving.
Thank You again…
It’s great relief to find somebody who knows all this.
My day would look like this:
7am-7.30am - lorry check (work)
7.30-9.30 - loading sign on lorry (work)
9.30-11.00 - driving to site
11.00-16.00 - putting sigh on gantry (work)
16.00-17.00 - driving back to base.
In this case I would drive 3 hours and work 6 hours.
In this case do I still need my 45min brake 11.30 (even though I’ve only driven 1.5h)■■? Do work class same as driving. I’ve seen something about 6hour instead 4.5 in this case, but just can’t get it cleared.
Under 4.5 driving for the whole day = no tacho break required for the EU driver regs
Over 6 hours WORK (driving + other work added together) needs break(s) for the RT(WTD)R
For the day you show in the above quote -
at least 15 mins break needed at or before 1300
at least 45 mins of total break(s) needed as total WORK is over 9 hours
In this case I would drive 3 hours and work 6 hours.
0700 to 1700 is 10 hours but breaks (or POA) do not count for the RTD so if you take 45 mins of break(s) then that becomes a 9 hour and 15 min day of WORK (driving + other work added together)
PS - just to confuse you with a little more info
If you are just LGV driving from the yard to the place of work where you will be all day and then driving it back to the yard - you are Dcpc exempt
bakkuk:
Thanks for help. realy apreciate.
Good I’ve done my homework with above links
Just need clarifying 2 things.
EU regs… do they apply straight away from very first hour of driving, or do I need to drive so many hours a week/firtnight ? (Say, I would only use hiab monday, and rest of week on machines… do I still need to have all my weekly brakes and record other work?)
In any week when you do any driving in-scope of EU regulations you should have a weekly rest period so if you only drive on Monday then I’m afraid you would be expected to have a weekly rest period that week.
Work done on none driving days should be recorded as described in my first post (question 2).
my biggest issue is with daily brakes with working/driving hours. I can’t find clear answer for this one.
Assuming I’ll work on hiab, say… putting gantry sign on. My day would look like this:
7am-7.30am - lorry check (work)
7.30-9.30 - loading sign on lorry (work)
9.30-11.00 - driving to site
11.00-16.00 - putting sigh on gantry (work)
16.00-17.00 - driving back to base.
In this case I would drive 3 hours and work 6 hours.
In this case do I still need my 45min brake 11.30 (even though I’ve only driven 1.5h)■■? Do work class same as driving. I’ve seen something about 6hour instead 4.5 in this case, but just can’t get it cleared.
In the above example you don’t do 4.5 hours driving so you do not need the 45 minute tachograph break.
However I’m afraid we’re expected to comply with two lots of regulations, the tachograph regulations and the Working Time Directive regulations generally known as the WTD.
The WTD is not as important as the tachograph rules.
The WTD rules state that you should not work more than 6 hours without a break, this break should be at least 15 minutes.
so in your example above you start at 07:00 and should have a break of at least 15 minutes no later than 13:00.
There is much more to the WTD than this but getting your head round the 6 hour rule first will get you started and frankly not many people give a ■■■■ about the WTD anyway
Same case would be with grab, where I would spend more time working than driving.
Thank You again…
It’s great relief to find somebody who knows all this.
I’m slowly connecting all the bits together…
I’m so glad I’ve found this place…
You see… my job is just so complexed… i do everything and anything… and to add up… anywhere and everywhere
So to put it all together…
I’ll be generaly working under RT (WTD) rules most of the time.
If in any day of the week I’ll do more than 4.5h driving (that’s hard drive, no other work, POA, or brakes included) I’ll be under EU rules, and I’ll have to make a note my other work for remaining week days on tacho charts or printouts.
Looks easy now
so just another idea of my day:
7am-8am - loading up in a yard
8am-10.30 - driving to place of work
10.30-13.00 - work (at this stage I’ll need my WTD 15 min brake after 6h work)
13.15-14.00 - work
14.00-16.00 - driving back to yard (at this stage I’ll need my EU 30 min brake after 4.5h driving, as I’ve had 15 min brake already. This 30 min brake will also count as a brake for further 9h WTD brake)
16.30-17.00 - continuing driving back to Yard
17.00 - end of work
I know it looks “tidy”, just an example, Is my day OK by law ?
One more thing.
Traveling to work. Sometimes (deppending where work is) I have to travel 1.5 hours at the morning and afternoon, so I leave my house 5.30, and I’m back 18.30. Sometimes I get picked up. I’m also getting payed for it. Do I need to manualy enter this hours??
And if I’m on 50h week contract, how can I do average 48h/week like RT(WTD)R guide is saying?
Again. Thanks for all this help. You probably don’t even realise how people need Your knowledge…
bakkuk:
I’m slowly connecting all the bits together…
I’m so glad I’ve found this place…
You see… my job is just so complexed… i do everything and anything… and to add up… anywhere and everywhere
So to put it all together…
I’ll be generaly working under RT (WTD) rules most of the time.
Only on days when you drive in-scope of EU regulations on other days you will come under the general WTD.
If in any day of the week I’ll do more than 4.5h driving (that’s hard drive, no other work, POA, or brakes included) I’ll be under EU rules, and I’ll have to make a note my other work for remaining week days on tacho charts or printouts.
Not quite right mate, if you do any driving even if it’s only 10 minutes you will be in-scope of EU regulations and should record work for none driving days as other work.
Looks easy now
Good it’s starting to come together then
so just another idea of my day:
7am-8am - loading up in a yard
8am-10.30 - driving to place of work
10.30-13.00 - work (at this stage I’ll need my WTD 15 min brake after 6h work)
13.15-14.00 - work
14.00-16.00 - driving back to yard (at this stage I’ll need my EU 30 min brake after 4.5h driving, as I’ve had 15 min brake already. This 30 min brake will also count as a brake for further 9h WTD brake)
16.30-17.00 - continuing driving back to Yard
17.00 - end of work
I know it looks “tidy”, just an example, Is my day OK by law ?
Looks good to me
One point just for clarity, the WTD requires you to not work more than six hours before having a break, but it doesn’t have to be exactly at six hours it could be before reaching the six hour mark in which case a new six hour period would begin immediately after the break.
One more thing.
Traveling to work. Sometimes (deppending where work is) I have to travel 1.5 hours at the morning and afternoon, so I leave my house 5.30, and I’m back 18.30. Sometimes I get picked up. I’m also getting payed for it. Do I need to manualy enter this hours??
With the exception of calculating weekly rest periods the only time it’s going to make a difference to you will be on days when you drive in-scope of EU regulations, on none driving days you can pretty much do as you please as long as you have the required weekly rest in weeks that you drive to EU rules
And if I’m on 50h week contract, how can I do average 48h/week like RT(WTD)R guide is saying?
It seems that most days you will not be driving or a member of a crew that would come under the WTD for mobile workers and therefore not subject to the WTD for mobile workers, for the general WTD you can opt out of the 48 hour week and as you won’t be working under the RT(WTD) for more than a day or two each week it shouldn’t be a problem for you.
Again. Thanks for all this help. You probably don’t even realise how people need Your knowledge…
Right…
So pretending that I’ll be driving lorry every week (sometimes 10 mins a week, sometimes full 5 days), I’ll be working under EU rules all the time, therefore (even when I’ll only drive lorry monday morning for say 15 minutes) I’ll have to do records of all remaining days on charts or prontouts. And because I’ll be under EU rules, even though I’ve only driven for 15 mins I’ll have to do my weekly brakes as well.
Is that right?
bakkuk:
So pretending that I’ll be driving lorry every week (sometimes 10 mins a week, sometimes full 5 days), I’ll be working under EU rules all the time, therefore (even when I’ll only drive lorry monday morning for say 15 minutes) I’ll have to do records of all remaining days on charts or prontouts
ONLY on the days you drive AND for the WEEKLY REST rules
Yes
bakkuk:
So pretending that I’ll be driving lorry every week (sometimes 10 mins a week, sometimes full 5 days), I’ll be working under EU rules all the time, therefore (even when I’ll only drive lorry monday morning for say 15 minutes) I’ll have to do records of all remaining days on charts or prontouts. And because I’ll be under EU rules, even though I’ve only driven for 15 mins I’ll have to do my weekly brakes as well.
Is that right?
ROG has already answered but in order to try to clarify further:
You only work to EU regulations on days that you do any driving in-scope of EU regulations, (by days I mean the 24 hour period from the start of the shift).
However in any week that you’ve done any driving in-scope of EU regulations, work done on none driving days should be manually recorded as other work, this is just so you can show that you’ve had the required daily rest on the driving days and the required weekly rest in the week that you’ve driven in-scope of EU regulations.
In weeks when you do not do any driving to EU regulations no records need to be kept.
I’ve done my homework with above links