Mission creep.. inward facing cameras

ezydriver:

Yorkielad:
It would be the final straw for me too I’m afraid,they can have as many outward cameras as they want on but as soon as an inward one appears(and we have a strong Union presence) I’d be leaving,I’d take a pay cut and go tramping if need be,I’ve always said this and I’d stick to it…
There is no way I’d work anywhere that practices this…

One of our drivers who drives one of the brand new batch of 21 plates told me there’s a device in his unit that watches his eyes, and if he averts them for a given time, it beeps loudly. I’m yet to confirm this myself, but I’ve no reason to doubt him. I just can’t believe what’s happening. I think of the days I’d drive my dad’s Ford Cargo around customer premises, aged 12, with the customer’s knowledge and permission, and I think how happy we were doing that. They were brilliant memories. And I look now, and… I don’t know… :unamused:

Drivecam its used on National Express .Its to stop drivers dozing off .

Conor:

Truckulent:
If they need to watch you all day they shouldn’t have employed you. You need to trust your drivers.

The reason these cameras are installed is because they did that for years and ended up with drivers having collisions that shouldn’t have ever happened and damage to vehicles and loads.

Decades of first hand experience paying out for the costs of the crap amongst us has broken the trust in drivers from employers. Sadly the number of crap drivers seems to be on the increase. If you want anyone to rage at then rage at the blokes you work with who seem incapable of going a day without some drama occurring. They’re the real cause of inward facing cameras.

That doesn’t excuse cameras watching you on break/rest.

And if companies pay ■■■■ wages, they’ll get ■■■■ drivers.

You reap what you sow.

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It’s about being valued by an employer. You work enough hours, make enough sacrifices, and take enough crap. So the least a driver deserves is to be valued by their employer. And these cameras are an active display of how little your employer thinks of you. The practicality or operation of the camera matters not, it’s just life’s too short to work for people who think you’re worse than dirt.

I find there’s also an element of Stockholm Syndrome. In my experience, drivers claiming to be in favour of these cameras are usually the ones with them already in their cab. Scared to bite the hand that feeds them, possibly?

A lot of firms love to play the “improving safety” card, which I find very hypocritical. If they were truly concerned about safety, firms wouldn’t be sending out untrained, unbriefed agency men (many of which are Eastern European with questionable experience levels). Nor would they be planning their drivers for maximum length days. Both dangerous practices. But when it comes to a new toy, suddenly safety is their biggest concern…

Rottweiler22:
It’s about being valued by an employer. You work enough hours, make enough sacrifices, and take enough crap. So the least a driver deserves is to be valued by their employer. And these cameras are an active display of how little your employer thinks of you. The practicality or operation of the camera matters not, it’s just life’s too short to work for people who think you’re worse than dirt.

I find there’s also an element of Stockholm Syndrome. In my experience, drivers claiming to be in favour of these cameras are usually the ones with them already in their cab. Scared to bite the hand that feeds them, possibly?

A lot of firms love to play the “improving safety” card, which I find very hypocritical. If they were truly concerned about safety, firms wouldn’t be sending out untrained, unbriefed agency men (many of which are Eastern European with questionable experience levels). Nor would they be planning their drivers for maximum length days. Both dangerous practices. But when it comes to a new toy, suddenly safety is their biggest concern…

I completely agree ^^

It’s the same mentality as speed cameras. They’re not interested in educating poor drivers, just taking money off them.

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ezydriver:
There’s been a bloke at our yard for a few weeks, every day, fitting something to our units. I struck up a conversation, and he’s retro fitting the direct vision gear so we can go into London. But he was also upgrading the inward facing cameras. I asked him why he was doing that, and he told me they’re no longer using SD cards, but linking them live to the office. I’ve not confirmed this with my manager, but another driver has. There’s been no word of this, we’ve not been told, God only knows what or where the official policy is.

That’s a definite line crossed for me. I just about tolerated the ‘incident cameras’ because the manager had to go to the trouble of taking the SD card out and downloading it, and would only do that if the Microlise threw up a harsh braking incident (one bloke got sacked for eating a yoghurt this way!). So in a way though we were being recorded, they turned out not to be too threatening or uncomfortable.

But now I spend 12-15 hours per night feeling very uncomfortable, as if at any moment somebody could be watching me. It’s really tapped into something deep in me that I can’t shake off. They got us semi comfortable with ‘incident cameras’, and are now introducing live cameras. I have no idea who can watch.

When I started driving artics in 2004 I had a waxy tachograph chart and a mobile phone surveying me, and that was it. Since then I’ve seen GPS trackers, remote digi tachos, live inward and outward facing cameras, extensive telematics, random drink and drug tests… I’m sure a Cat A prisoner on suicide watch in a supermax prison enjoys less surveillance.

What gets me, is that if say in 1975 all the UK’s drivers went into work Monday and their lorries had inexplicably been fitted with the surveillance tech we have today, whereas the week before all they had were paper log books, that leap would have led to pandemonium, and a lorry drivers’ strike called immediately, all for good reason. But I think of the boiling frog analogy, in that if you turn the heat up gradually, the frog in the water will gladly sit there and boil alive, seemingly oblivious to the heat.

It really is that bad.

Gonna start looking for a new job me thinks. Probably look for a shunting job somewhere, as at least I’ll have a definite finishing time and less surveillance. Either that or use my savings for a narrowboat and escape this mad society.

Just a rant. I know a couple of you will understand.

Excellent post. I drove with an inward facing camera in 2019 and was told the insurance companies required it. I was told it only switched on for excessive braking, but why it would need to view the driver for that was never explained. I do know that the office staff could also view anytime they wanted, but was told that they wouldn’t do so needlessly. Your comment of: ‘Since then I’ve seen GPS trackers, remote digi tachos, live inward and outward facing cameras, extensive telematics, random drink and drug tests… I’m sure a Cat A prisoner on suicide watch in a supermax prison enjoys less surveillance’, was spot on.

…Don’t forget the argument regarding the union opposition to inward facing cameras where they then become middle managers (“Poachers ■■■ gamekeepers”) and then use the tracking system to heavily scrutinize all drivers stopping at laybys for a crafty cuppa, tescos to get the shopping in (with the truck parked in the normal car park!) or even that old chesnut “Off Route” where you drive down a totally legal street, BUT one that has been forbidden on the helpful maps they give you that don’t take into account any road closures, let alone total road re-writes like on the offslip A45 J16 M1 where you don’t get a Weedon going around the long way on that new bypass…

So WHAT if “Your” Union got you out of the nasty inward facing cameras? - When you still end up getting the push 'cos there’s plenty of other telemetry they can get you on, as and when they feel like it…

Had an altercation on the road though? Demanding access to the footage for your own purposes to back you up?

“That’s not what the surveilances are there for sonny”…

What entertainment value could be had from inward facing cameras btw?

…Clip from time index 1:38 seems apt here…

the firm I am driving (tramping) for atm as I am agency have a cctv camera above the passenger seat pointed at the driver (21 plate scania). Freaked me out a little when I first got in. I drive with a sock over it, ■■ that I am not living in a space with a cctv camera in it. They say they turn off when the ignition is turned off, but how many of you here have been caught short in traffic jams needing a pee. It is a gross invasion of privacy. A couple of days a go the tech came round to pop a sim card into the recording unit to make the cameras live giving a live feed, had a look at the internal workings of the software and they are so easy to hack and if they can be hacked they can be remotely switched on. If this is the future of truck driving bye bye truck let some other muppet fill my seat.

Winseer:
…Don’t forget the argument regarding the union opposition to inward facing cameras where they then become middle managers (“Poachers ■■■ gamekeepers”) and then use the tracking system to heavily scrutinize all drivers stopping at laybys for a crafty cuppa, tescos to get the shopping in (with the truck parked in the normal car park!) or even that old chesnut “Off Route” where you drive down a totally legal street, BUT one that has been forbidden on the helpful maps they give you that don’t take into account any road closures, let alone total road re-writes like on the offslip A45 J16 M1 where you don’t get a Weedon going around the long way on that new bypass…

So WHAT if “Your” Union got you out of the nasty inward facing cameras? - When you still end up getting the push 'cos there’s plenty of other telemetry they can get you on, as and when they feel like it…

Had an altercation on the road though? Demanding access to the footage for your own purposes to back you up?

“That’s not what the surveilances are there for sonny”…

Yawn!

See you are still here, boring everyone with your tales of woe and everyone is out to get me sob story.

I’ve no time to read it all , but my answer to any camera , cheap & easy

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I didn’t mind the cab cameras. I used to have great fun sticking gaffer tape over the lenses. When I got told off for doing that I replied I’m shy. They never actually did anything about me doing it though.

pocketpete:
I didn’t mind the cab cameras. I used to have great fun sticking gaffer tape over the lenses. When I got told off for doing that I replied I’m shy. They never actually did anything about me doing it though.

I’ve worked at places where it is a disclipinary offence to cover up the inward-facing camera…
Ping pong balls cut in half, masking tape like the example in the pic above, and of course - a bit of blue tac works wonders as well.

…Fortunately, this only applied to the C2 vehicles, and I was C+E there, so it didn’t affect me.

I can’t imagine a scenario where a Union lets this happen to their members - unless there’s a major incentive for them at the top of said union…

“Free Holiday for all committee members - if you get this past your members folks…”

If there’s no upside to it - the deal is always going to be total rubbish.

It is like negotiting an overtime rate for having successive pulls of the trigger whilst playing Russian Roulette…

“I’ll give you a million guy, if you pull the trigger (with barrel in your mouth…) six times on this six-shooter revolver…”

The only thing you’ll be ‘collecting’ - is a few ounces of lead in the head. :neutral_face:

Driver facing cameras are highly unlikely to see any driver misdeeds…

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Its all very well handing your notice in,esoecially with the driver shortage,but where will we be in 5 or ten years time?
All the big companies will have them so resiging wont be an option

Sploom:
Its all very well handing your notice in,esoecially with the driver shortage,but where will we be in 5 or ten years time?
All the big companies will have them so resiging wont be an option

We refused them as union members, we don’t have them and we won’t be having them for some years to come whilst enough of us still wear big boy pants, if future drivers are too frightened or brainwashed to object that’s their look out.

You may well be right in the 5 to 10 years estimate, considering how in less than 18 months the majority of a once proud awkward independent and bloody minded nation have competely surrendered and submitted to the increasingly totalitarian Johnson regime and its dictats under the covid excuse the people have signified they will accept anything.

My suggestion for 5 to 10 years is driver facing cameras will be the very least of anyones worries, look at what those who rule over us and our fake govt have achieved in 18 months.

When Maritime first got these inward facing cameras, the number of driver sackings went through the roof as they seemed to get a bit of a hard on for making an example out of drivers, don’t get me wrong some deserved it but I saw quite a few decent men quite harshly get sent packing on the spot for pretty minor infractions. Downloaded footage on the back of a ‘harsh braking investigation’ seemed to get combed through to find something to make the effort of downloading the footage worth their while.

Safe to say it’s come back to bite them up the bum because now many of their depots can’t get drivers despite significantly hiking up wages. They could do with some of them good loyal drivers they binned off still being around.

This of course all came about because the company was on the verge of being uninsurable at one point due to number of insurance claims on the back of accidents. My worry with these inward facing cameras is that they are going to continue to spread as a means of operators negotiating better insurance premiums.

I don’t know about the viability of live feeds but I suspect 5G may make it more viable in years to come. It’s a slippery slope because the variety of planners that have your phone ringing off the hook all day chasing you up, will be able to tune into the CCTV to see what your up to on an ‘unauthorised stop’ etc. The job really is knackered then.




The AA

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Good communications and a very strong policy is what makes driver facing cameras acceptable for some. Restricted access by named people or roles and documented. A short while back the driver camera showed driver DID looked several times at near side mirrors in a cyclist collision. Definitely helped the driver’s account
CompletelY disagree with idea just anyone can tap, into the feed or see the recordings.

Acorn:
Good communications and a very strong policy is what makes driver facing cameras acceptable for some. Restricted access by named people or roles and documented. A short while back the driver camera showed driver DID looked several times at near side mirrors in a cyclist collision. Definitely helped the driver’s account
CompletelY disagree with idea just anyone can tap, into the feed or see the recordings.

Agreed, that policy of paying 50% over and above and many drivers will accept such devices, offer me £65k for a genuine 43 hour week home every night and even i might consider it.

Trust the company’s data protection policies when many of us on these pages know that all and sundry have watched supposedly confidential footage after incidents, don’t make me laugh, we all know what goes on in the real world.
Yes, in an ideal world only certain members of the company can tap into live streaming, but when that footage is downloaded and other staff get cc’d in on emails containing said footage, then the above applies.
We’ve all heard the tales of how in cab cameras have saved a driver’s career, but are yet to see documented evidence.
360’ cameras around the vehicle are commonplace now, that’s more than adequate to apportion blame, assuming that someone who can actually drive a lorry is the one judging said footage, not always the case.

Thankfully with so many drivers now coming up for retirement, that and the skills (not the number of licenced individuals) shortage getting worse week by week, those competent drivers who refuse to have their own big brother camera watching them can easily find alternative places of employment, who might be more enlightened ie employ good staff only and have faith them, or have a functioning union membership who will not accept such things.

Sploom:
Its all very well handing your notice in,esoecially with the driver shortage,but where will we be in 5 or ten years time?
All the big companies will have them so resiging wont be an option

Wouldn’t it be strange if it is the opposite of what one might expect…?

…That the Unionized yards - adopt an agreement to sell the privacy rights of their members, say - in return for a 0.0000001% pay rise above the rate of inflation “no strings”… :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

Private firms meanwhile - quickly gain a bad rep among even agency drivers, Eg. my old employers Brakes, whom many on here have said “They wouldn’t be seen dead working for…”

They’ve had driver-facing cameras for years now, but only on the C2 vehicles, as the artic units used to be hired…

Those cameras - get used to sack people for using their phones, etc. - but I never heard of a driver winning compensation in court for being hit by a member of the public (RTC or actual assault) where the inward facing camera, along with other parts of “seven eye” - captured the entire crime taking place…

“Camera data - isn’t available for YOUR benefit - it is avialable for ours” the acting managers might say…